Author Topic: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!  (Read 4311 times)

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Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2020, 06:40:50 am »
=
How is my age, in any way related to the fact that you said "Android is Linux", and then changed that to "Linux-based"? It's not even Linux-based, it's JAVA-based and just happens to USE Linux kernel, somehow - the marketing muppets use the "It runs on Linux" schtick to make it appear "cool" to nerds. They also push (as do many other tireseome bores) the whole "Open Source" bollocks - who CARES, so long as the phone works.

We didn't have all this obsessive, policital crap back when Nokia had the 3210/3310 etc - you bought a phone, got used to it and loved it, and weren't online ranting or raving about it like a complete sad sack loser.

I'm really not sure why this has triggered such an angry response. You cannot extrapolate the meaning from the phrase "Android is linux" without it being explicitly laid out that linux is just the kernel? Would you accept that Ubuntu is linux? Or are you so pedantic that I have to be long winded and call it a unix-like operating system that runs one of several graphical environments and a bash shell upon the linux kernel? Are you going to jump on me if I say that "wine is alcohol" instead of calling it a grape-based beverage containing some amount of alcohol? Are you familiar with the concept of implied details? I'm consistently amazed with the degree of pedantry I encounter in this forum, being slightly autistic I've long had a tendency to interpret things literally but some people take that to a whole new level and are either incapable or unwilling to extrapolate anything.

I don't see a lot of people touting the open source nature of Android or choosing it based on that aspect either, most people when they want a phone choose one of the two available mobile operating systems and do not do any hacking or tweaking at all. Which one of those two available platforms can I choose that won't cause you to throw a fit and get your knickers in a twist?

The only person I see ranting and raving here is you, and I'm at a loss as to why you're this upset about a phone OS. Yes some people get overly attached to their device of choice, you'll see the same arguments raging on over computer operating systems, brands of car or truck, clothing, politicians, you name it, makes no real sense to me but so what?

Meanwhile I generally do as you suggest, I use my iphone, my Android tablet, my Windows and Linux PCs and generally not rant about them, they all have aspects I like and aspects I dislike but for the most part I'm able to do what I need with any of them. The only operating system I have banished from my home is Win10 and that isn't because it's Windows, it's because I had to use that particular version at work for 2 years and hated it for many reasons I don't feel like hashing out again. Win7 is still quite nice, the only reason I've been shifting over to Linux is because Win7 is not going to be viable indefinitely and I need something that I don't have to constantly fight with. The fact that Linux is open source enables there to be choices, if a particular distro goes in a direction I don't like, I can switch to another one that is more to my liking. I'm not stuck with something that is fully controlled by one particular company. If somebody were going to maintain Win7 indefinitely I'd be content to just keep using that but we already know that isn't gonna happen.
 
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Online Ed.Kloonk

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2020, 10:25:38 am »
The whole Android is Linux thing comes from the nonsense belief that one represents the other just be having an association on a certain platform. Android is not Linux. Android uses Linux but seems to use it ass-backwards to a small but not insignificant number of desktop Linux users.

 
 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2020, 01:54:49 pm »
OK...  I'm getting a bit confused here now, about who said what. In my last reply
I was only keeping it friendly and light hearted!   ;D ;D
So I'll just back up slowly, turn around, and whistle a fun tune while walking quickly!   :-DD
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2020, 02:25:14 pm »
So we decided to put this cold turd back in the microwave for another spin? I'll get the blender so some folks can suck it up.  :popcorn:
 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2020, 02:49:26 pm »
Wow...  ???...  Some people are just so negative & angry... ???
Great start for the new year... sigh  :palm:
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2020, 08:04:14 pm »
The whole Android is Linux thing comes from the nonsense belief that one represents the other just be having an association on a certain platform. Android is not Linux. Android uses Linux but seems to use it ass-backwards to a small but not insignificant number of desktop Linux users.

There's nothing incorrect about saying "Android is linux". It's similar to saying "My car is diesel", any normal person is going to know that means "my car is powered by an engine that burns diesel fuel" and not "my car is literally just a big blob of diesel", but it's not normally necessary to explicitly state the entire thing because most people are able to extrapolate the correct meaning from the simpler statement.

When one says "Android is linux" there is obviously an implied "based" on the end. It's already well established that "Linux" technically refers to the Linux kernel itself but it is not incorrect to refer to any entire distro as "Linux". Take away the kernel from Android and what do you have left? What non-linux kernels can it run on? I would argue that it's a Linux distro much like Ubuntu or Redhat are.

Sheesh  |O
 

Offline vwestlife

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2020, 09:10:10 pm »
What, two pages and no "I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux" copypasta yet?
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2020, 07:06:32 am »
What, two pages and no "I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux" copypasta yet?
Windows is so obviously superior, even the dirty long-haired smellies have lost their zeal.
 

Offline Zucca

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2020, 08:15:23 pm »
I am thinking to migrate my PC, open questions for the Linux guys:

1) What do you use for Video editing? I use Adobe Premiere
2) What do you use for Photo editing? I use Adobe Lightroom/Photoshop
3) I am addicted to Total Commander but I think I will find something to replace it, any direct experience?
4) I love Autohotkey, do you Linux guys used something like this? I can find surely something to replace it, but I dream somebody out there having a diret experience.

Why stupid Adobe do not want to offer something for the Linux platform?
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Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2020, 08:43:23 pm »
I use Shotcut for video editing and Gimp for photo editing, whether they will meet your needs I can't say but they're adequate for mine. Gimp is great although like many open source products the name is completely stupid and does not have a professional feel at all, I suspect it would be much more successful if it had a more classy sounding name.

For games and other things that need Windows you can sometimes run the Windows version under WINE or you can run Windows in a VM using VirtualBox. Another option is to just keep a Windows machine around too, personally I do all of these things depending on what I'm trying to do.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2020, 06:36:13 am »
1) What do you use for Video editing? I use Adobe Premiere
2) What do you use for Photo editing? I use Adobe Lightroom/Photoshop
3) I am addicted to Total Commander but I think I will find something to replace it, any direct experience?
4) I love Autohotkey, do you Linux guys used something like this? I can find surely something to replace it, but I dream somebody out there having a diret experience.
  • I don't edit videos.
  • Gimp, and various command line utilities when dealing with lots of images
  • Never used Total Commander, but each Desktop Environment has their own file manager, so try Gnome, Cinnamon, KDE, XFCE, LXDE at least to see which one you like most.
  • All DEs support keyboard shortcuts (usually found in your keyboard configuration tool), allowing you to run any script or program when a specific key combination is pressed.  Accessing already open windows or the active window in the GUI is not as easy, but there are pretty standard utilities like wmctrl and xclip.  Manipulating displays is quite easy with xrandr.
In general, I would say that if you look for tool similar to Z I used in Windows, you'll be severely disappointed.
However, if you are interested and have the time to look for new, easier and more efficient ways to achieve Y or perform X, then you'll find lots of tools to try and adapt to your will.
Just remember that facts or axioms that applied in Windows, do not necessarily apply in Linux, so you might have to learn to think outside the box first.

The main difference between Windows and Mac OS, and Linux, being that in Linux, there is no "best or recommended way" to do things; it is completely up to you to find and setup the workflow that works for you, the OS/DE does not have one to impose on you.
 
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Offline Zucca

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2020, 01:53:33 pm »
Thanks Animal for your interesting reply.

I used Autohotkey for example to autotype my email address domain

"@mydomain.com"

I just have to type "@m" and autohotkey complete the address for me, regardless where I am typing my email address.
Furthermore I use Autohotkey to do a lot more boring stuff I do not want to mention here (connected to an HASU USB converter to control more keyboards), what to you think about this one:

https://github.com/autokey/autokey

Anyway I understand fully your suggestion so maybe there is something in Linux that sits beetween keyboard and mouse and the linux core to generate keyboard and mouse automated scripts. I will research.

Anybody can tell me more about the driver support in Linux? I hope the HW market in 201920 understood a hardware must run not only in windows and iOS.

PS: Since yesterday my win pc is throwing at me BSOD, if it is not HW related I will switch soon.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 02:20:53 pm by Zucca »
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Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2020, 04:41:09 pm »
Hardware support is a mixed bag, a lot of consumer-centric hardware has less Linux support, most professional/SOHO gear is well supported. When I installed Ubuntu on a couple of my Lenovo laptops it found all the drivers and everything just worked. As with anything, YMMV, but if you have Linux in mind when shopping for hardware it is no problem to get supported equipment.
 
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Online borjam

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2020, 06:33:54 pm »
Apple will eventually discard macOS and replace it with iOS anyway. Then they will release a touch-screen laptop and claim it's a world-first innovation.
That would be really stupid. Developers need a viable development platform, so that means it won't happen. Unlike Microsoft and its nail and hammer philosophy.
 

Online borjam

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2020, 06:39:32 pm »
MacOS and iOS are already close relatives to Linux and Android is Linux. Outside of Microsoft, most of the tech industry and the vast majority of the internet back end runs on Linux. The only place that Linux is not absolutely dominant is the consumer and corporate desktop.
While I understand the fascination with Linux experienced by Windows refugees, it's worth pointing out that the world begun before the 90's when Linus Thorvalds wrote Linux. Linux is a descendant of Unix, an operating system created in the early 70's originating a really huge family tree of descendants. Among them, if only by inspiration, you can certainly find Linux.

Surprisingly enough, Macos X is a proper Unix system. And you can find a lot of former users of Unix systems such as Sun workstations using Macos X now.

The majority of the Internet back end does not run on Linux if you mean moving packets. The dominant router manufacturers are Cisco (using their own operating system) and Juniper. Juniper uses JunOS, which is based on FreeBSD. FreeBSD is, by the way, a major contributor to Macos X :)

And what is FreeBSD? A descendant of the good old BSD Unix system. A system Linux zealots love to despise because their self esteem needs it :P
 

Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2020, 07:04:53 pm »
When one says the majority of the internet "runs on Linux" they are clearly referring to the servers hosting the sites, serving DNS, etc, not the routers moving packets. I don't have any data on the ratio of servers to routers/switches and similar support gear but it would not surprise me if it's at least 20:1.

Linux is one of many Unix and unix-like operating systems. It just happens to be one of the few that is freely available and by far the most widely supported Unix-like OS that runs on commodity hardware.
 

Offline vwestlife

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2020, 08:05:12 pm »
Surprisingly enough, Macos X is a proper Unix system. And you can find a lot of former users of Unix systems such as Sun workstations using Macos X now.
Why is that "surprising"? Apple even advertised it as such:



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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2020, 09:40:13 am »
https://github.com/autokey/autokey
Haven't used that one, and it is for Xorg only. Meaning, it is basically a standard application that asks Xorg to deliver it copies of all keyboard events, and when it sees the hotkey'd ones, it generates the needed additional keypress events.  It won't work on the terminal console (say, serial terminals, or on SSH connections to the machine), but it should work fine in Gnome, Cinnamon, KDE, XFCE, and LXDE environments (as long as they use Xorg and not Wayland).

maybe there is something in Linux that sits beetween keyboard and mouse and the linux core to generate keyboard and mouse automated scripts
There are three things.
  • Linux Input Subsystem.  It is basically the interface to all Human Interface Devices: keyboards, mice, tablets, touch screens, joystics, et cetera.  It provides one event interface device per device.  (Some devices, like touchpads on laptops with buttons both above and below the touchpad, are actually two separate devices, with the second device being usually a generic mouse with just the buttons but no movement axes.)  You can examine these events by running evtest as root.

    Each event interface by default provides copies of the events to each application that has the device open.  Keyboard events are also forwarded to the process that is reading from the terminal console, and mouse and touchpad events to a combined "mice" device.  An event interface device can also be "grabbed", so that the events are exclusive to the process, and not forwarded by the kernel.

    There is also an uinput event device, that can be used to create new event interface devices that look exactly like hardware devices, and emit events into them.  It can be used to echo events from a grabbed device, inserting new events as needed, on the kernel level.

    For example, you can create a daemon that monitors (not grabs) keypresses, and when it detects a specific keypress, it generates a mouse or touchpad event that moves the pointer by a specific amount in a specific direction.

    Because the Linux Input Subsystem is a part of the kernel, this works with all Human Interface Devices connected to the machine.

    Examples I've shown at StackOverflow include a basic skeleton of a daemon that reads keyboard events from a barcode scanner, verifying and translating them, before emitting the barcode as if it was typed on a numeric keyboard.
     
  • Pseudoterminal interfaces.  These are used by "command-line" applications, including things like shells and SSH-connections.  Basically, tools like screen can interpose a pseudoterminal interface on top of an existing one, and do all sorts of translations between the two.  GNU screen itself is a tool that allows you to for example connect to a remote machine, run screen there, do something, log out, later log back in and connect to the existing screen session -- the applications running in the session see the user as continuously connected, as screen hides the SSH connection loss from the applications in its session.  Equally, it could do input translation and hotkey stuff.  (It actually might.)

    Unfortunately, the session management in systemd may make using tools like screen harder, since systemd forgoes the Unix philosophy of modular tools, and often assumes that when the user logs out, all the processed started in that session should be killed, also killing screen.

    In practice, any kind of translation at this level is exceedingly rare.  Possible, but probably only useful as a gag; say a fake shell.
     
  • Desktop Environment.  In Linux, there are two main servers, Xorg and Wayland, that can act as the base server.  It provides basic 2D and OpenGL functionality, and an event interface.  They do provide a mechanism for applications to interpose (or divert the events to themselves) for AutoKey-like functionality.

    Desktop Environments are sets of applications on top of such a server, implementing toolbars, menus, window decorations, media services, and so on.  The current ones already monitor for specific keypresses (for things like volume and brightness controls, menu popups, et cetera), and all have a facility for the user to add new keypresses that either copy an existing functionality, or execute a custom script or program.
In most cases, the Desktop Environment (or Xorg) -based one is most suitable for Autokey-like functionality.

Things like translating the output from a barcode scanner, or combining multiple different devices into one (say two joystics into a wheel and a joystic, to physically use two-stick-steering in driving simulatiors), should be done on the Linux Input Subsystem level.

For example, if you or your kids like playing free online two-player games, but using a single keyboard or different keys is annoying (they usually use W/A/S/D for one player, and cursor keys for the other), one could easily write a Linux Input Subsystem daemon that grabs two specific gamepads or keyboards, and translates them to keypresses on a single keyboard, with very little latency (not enough to notice on even small SBCs on kernels configured for interactive use (HZ at least 100, preferably 1000).  Just fire up a browser, open a two-player game you like, use a small GUI tool to select the two keyboards/gamepads and the mappings used, and play away.  The tool and the daemon are not complicated programs at all; personally, I find the UI design for even such small tool to take more time than the actual daemon code.

(It is simpler, though, to use a microcontroller with a native USB interface, like ATmega32u4 (as in Arduino Micro and Leonardo; SparkFun Pro Micro; Teensy 2.0; Makey Makey; and a ton of custom keyboards and gamepads), and have them simply enumerate as an USB HID device, and generate the proper keypresses themselves.  That works on all computers, and requires no drivers; and there is even existing Arduino code to do it nicely.  The only "problem" is making the physical gamepad itself; whereas one can buy cheap but okay USB ones off fleabay and elsewhere.  And if you want to change the keys they generate, you again need a small UI tool; I'm not sure if suitable open source ones already exist.  Years back, I made myself one, using an arcade joystick and buttons, on top of a 30cm by 60cm 18mm thick birch board.)
 
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Online borjam

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2020, 10:38:48 am »
Surprisingly enough, Macos X is a proper Unix system. And you can find a lot of former users of Unix systems such as Sun workstations using Macos X now.

Why is that "surprising"? Apple even advertised it as such:
I don't find it surprising at all, but many people consider it like a sort of crippled system worse than Windows. I work naturally between FreeBSD and Macos X without problems.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2020, 02:05:27 pm »
many people consider [MacOS X] like a sort of crippled system worse than Windows. I work naturally between FreeBSD and Macos X without problems.
I don't mind Mac OS at all; I even maintained MacOS 7.5 to 8.6 workstations at an university for a couple of years.  Mac OS X seems well suited to e.g. video processing in my opinion.  I've done some interesting graphics work (work, not design) on Macs myself, decades ago; and nowadays, when occasionally using someone elses Mac, the OS still feels intuitive, responsive, and polished, while still letting me access the non-GUI Unixy stuff when needed.  (Recently I tested Python 3 and Qt 5, as I'd like to write some CSV-processing tools for my brother.)  It's nice.

But Apple, the company, has business practices that make me steer away from their products:  I like to tinker and adjust my machines, and bend them to my will and whim.  Apple does not like that, especially when it comes to hardware or repairs.
 

Offline I wanted a rude username

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2020, 01:00:56 am »
Apple does not like that, especially when it comes to hardware or repairs.

You could make a good case that in general Apple is actually stricter about software. Look how they go after attempts to allow people to run whatever software they want on iOS. Without "jailbreaking" the phone, the user is barred from installing any apps except from Apple's app store. That doesn't apply to macOS yet, but I stand by the prediction that they will eventually kill it in favour of iOS (otherwise why would they be holding off on adding touchscreen support?).
 

Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2020, 01:30:15 am »
Maybe because they feel similarly to myself in that touchscreens on laptop and desktop computers are stupid. They got to watch microsoft push the concept relentlessly and fall flat on their face. Touch makes sense on a tablet, I will never buy a laptop with a touchscreen if I can help it and will disable touch if forced to have it. People putting finger smudges on my monitor is one of my biggest peeves.
 
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Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2020, 04:24:37 pm »
Back then when we had an PC Shop we tried to convince People to use some Linux Distribution instead of Win XP.
My Personal offer was if the want change to XP the bought the Licence and I install it them for free.
What happens? ALL switch to XP after a while why?
a) The Game from the grandchild was not possible to install ( :=\ the mention it never before...)
b) The Software for there Crappy Navigation Device was only Variable for XP.
c) Open office could not opens some MS Office Files correct.
And a ton of other thinks...

In my Case I tried to use Suse I guess and nothing worked right. ATI Crossfire failed.
My 2 Display Setup was horrible and not possible to Setup right.
I never found the Shut-down Switch in th GUI. Install Software require a Degree in Software Engineering.
Some Simple Task who just work under Windows 7 require a Multi Day Research and didnt work after that...

I have the Problem with the FUCKING ANDROID CRAP WHO I REALY HATE (!!!!  :horse:  :box:) I cant Config the LAN PORT when I connect the Phone to the USB-C Dock!!! I need to set the Proxy Server! How? Nobody Know since the Fucking LAN Port never show up in the Settings! And now its LAN NOT WLAN!!!

In every Desktop I would set the Proxy in the Web browser its possible in Android? NO!  :palm:
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Offline george.b

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2020, 04:32:34 am »
Regarding the whole "Android is Linux" kerfuffle: this is Linux enough for me.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 04:34:20 am by george.b »
 

Offline david77

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2020, 10:38:28 am »
Ah! That's the way I like my Linux!

But for everyday tasks and pretty pictures Bill's OS is just superior (Don't get upset, just my view).
 


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