Author Topic: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!  (Read 4313 times)

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Offline GlennSprigg

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U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« on: December 27, 2019, 12:38:18 pm »
It seems that 9 or 10 years ago, the U.S. Air Force wanted a new SuperComputer.
So they strung together 1,760 Playstation-3 's  8)
I guess they understood the power of Linux . . .
https://phys.org/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercomputer.html

Also see the link below, and scroll down to 'Supercomputer' & to 'Space' . . .
https://opensource.com/article/18/5/places-find-linux

OK, I'm sold now !  :-+

P.S.
The result, unveiled in 2010, was capable of 55 trillion floating-point operations per second,
at 5-10% of the equivalent cost for off-the-shelf servers.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 12:44:17 pm by GlennSprigg »
 
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Online edy

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2019, 02:18:55 pm »
OK, I'm sold now !  :-+

It took the Air Force super computer to sell you on Linux?  :-+

What we don't realize is how much of the world's "hidden" computing is done using Linux. It is embedded in a ton of stuff, runs efficiently and reliably in the background so nobody ever notices. It powers the majority of servers on the internet. A modified version is behind Android devices, Chromebooks, in many pocket-sized computers and IoT devices. It is everywhere but nobody sees it.

I have been using Linux on the desktop for years but market share in that domain is maybe 2-3% (nobody has exact numbers). I'm not sure if that includes Chromebooks. Anyways, it is a great OS and you can choose between dozens of "flavours" and best of all most are completely FREE! It is highly customizable and the learning curve can be very steep. Those who are willing to be frustrated and spend a huge amount of time out of their comfort zone and learn a tremendous amount of stuff will reap the rewards. But it depends what you want to do with it. Linux is NOT for everyone. There are already a few threads in the General Computing part of the forum that delve into this.

The point is this... we at least have a choice for those who wish to escape the clutches of Microsoft or Apple's grip. Not to mention you can get a nice long extension of usability on some older computers that would choke otherwise trying to run the latest Windows.... while keeping up to date on the latest viral and security threats. Just expect to relearn how to use almost every software as you have to embrace open source versions of most stuff you were used to. Thankfully there are tons of good apps.  :-+
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Offline jmelson

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2019, 10:21:07 pm »
I put in some VOIP phones, they have an embedded Linux system with a web server port for configuration of the huge number of options.  The web server is ONLY for configuring the options.
I'm guessing most VOIP phones have Linux kernels of some sort in them.

Jon
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2019, 07:11:52 am »
It seems that 9 or 10 years ago, the U.S. Air Force wanted a new SuperComputer.
So they strung together 1,760 Playstation-3 's  8)
I guess they understood the power of Linux . . .

And with all that computing power, it still could not run Altium ;D.

One would assume the Air Force uses Linux, QPX or some other trusted O/S, or no O/S at all for mission critical applications, not bloody Windows. There should be a Dr. Strangelove remake where humanity is wiped out by the American and Russian military with a nuclear Mutually Assured Destruction event, triggered by a Windows message, "Windows has found a problem. Do you want to used Windows Help?" :-DD.

A serious movie depicting stupidity of the USA leading to a catastrophe is... https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058083/ Don't say it will never happen... it almost did by the Russians in 1983.
 
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2019, 07:33:38 am »
Linux has been in mainstream use for many years. Even gamers are switching to Linux machines. It's uptake is only increasing as people get increasingly more annoyed with Windows and Apple MacOS is barely a viable competitor.
 
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Offline I wanted a rude username

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2019, 07:58:38 am »
MacOS is barely a viable competitor.

Apple will eventually discard macOS and replace it with iOS anyway. Then they will release a touch-screen laptop and claim it's a world-first innovation.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2019, 08:02:33 am »
MacOS and iOS are already close relatives to Linux and Android is Linux. Outside of Microsoft, most of the tech industry and the vast majority of the internet back end runs on Linux. The only place that Linux is not absolutely dominant is the consumer and corporate desktop.
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2019, 10:45:14 am »
With the exception of two pieces of test equipment that insist on MS Windows I have been running linux since 2001 and I'm now at the stage where everything 'just works'. It's a nice feeling to have.
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

Warren Buffett
 
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Offline SolarMan

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2019, 07:03:06 pm »
Linux is great!  ;D

While there is a learning curve, you will catch on to the basics (browsing the web, writing documents, etc.) very quickly.

It's like a breath of fresh air to have your computer run so much faster than before.

And the range of software that's available for Linux is fantastic, typically:
1.   Open source
2.   Free
3.   No finicky digital rights management software to contend with
4.   No bloatware
5.   Does not slow your machine down by running in the background when not asked to do so
6.   New software can be installed (or removed) in seconds simply by typing a few commands in the terminal

Best of luck!
 
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Offline Bud

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2019, 08:15:22 pm »
7. Non-intuitive
8. One's software breaks other people's software
9. Nightmare to install programs and know where that shit went in the filesystem
10. Anything else I did not have time to write about.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 
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Offline I wanted a rude username

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2019, 10:01:22 pm »
8. One's software breaks other people's software
9. Nightmare to install programs and know where that shit went in the filesystem



Use a package manager, bud.
 

Online eti

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2019, 03:32:04 am »
Linux is amazing.

Okay... so that "conversation" soon died. You'll soon grow out of the honeymoon phase, and realise that it's utterly meaningless in and of itself, and of no actual, substantial worth as a subject of interest or discussion. It's a clinical gathering of bytes - meaningless - and no doubt you can (and will) find enough people willing to squander weeks of their life "discussing" it.

By the way, the bolts on my oven are pretty cool - very strong. The screws on my front door, are also... SEE? YOU'RE BORED!  ;)

An OS is a means to an end, a container or a "room" to enter to get stuff done. You're looking at it as if it's your newly-wed wife, and it ain't - it's NOT all that exciting, and yes - yes it DOES slow down to a crawl, whether or not you "ask" it not to (my adblocking Pi is doing this last night, and this BULLSHIT wasted 2 hours of my VERY precious time - sofware is bollocks - people get all "excited" over it, but... for WHAT reason?)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 03:35:59 am by eti »
 

Online eti

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2019, 03:38:27 am »
MacOS and iOS are already close relatives to Linux and Android is Linux. Outside of Microsoft, most of the tech industry and the vast majority of the internet back end runs on Linux. The only place that Linux is not absolutely dominant is the consumer and corporate desktop.

 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD  :palm:

Android USES Linux (The Colonel [Sanders]) - apart from that, it is UTTER TRASH.
 
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Online eti

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2019, 03:41:32 am »
Linux is great!  ;D

While there is a learning curve, you will catch on to the basics (browsing the web, writing documents, etc.) very quickly.

It's like a breath of fresh air to have your computer run so much faster than before.

And the range of software that's available for Linux is fantastic, typically:
1.   Open source
2.   Free
3.   No finicky digital rights management software to contend with
4.   No bloatware
5.   Does not slow your machine down by running in the background when not asked to do so
6.   New software can be installed (or removed) in seconds simply by typing a few commands in the terminal

Best of luck!

Linux attracts a disproportionate number of raving enthusiasts, whom could be better used by being dispatched via mail order, "hired" if you wish, and arrive at the homes of insomniacs, to sit by their bedsides and send them to sleep as they evangelise about "Open Sauce", Heinz 57, Colonel Mustard and other assorted oddities of technically tedious trivia.
 

Online Ed.Kloonk

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2019, 03:53:08 am »
MacOS and iOS are already close relatives to Linux and Android is Linux. Outside of Microsoft, most of the tech industry and the vast majority of the internet back end runs on Linux. The only place that Linux is not absolutely dominant is the consumer and corporate desktop.

 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD  :palm:

Android USES Linux (The Colonel [Sanders]) - apart from that, it is UTTER TRASH.

Yeah. I baulked at that a little bit too!  :)
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2019, 04:07:08 am »
MacOS and iOS are already close relatives to Linux and Android is Linux. Outside of Microsoft, most of the tech industry and the vast majority of the internet back end runs on Linux. The only place that Linux is not absolutely dominant is the consumer and corporate desktop.

 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD  :palm:

Android USES Linux (The Colonel [Sanders]) - apart from that, it is UTTER TRASH.

Unfortunately the alternatives are worse. Windows Phone, enough said and iOS is like going back to drawing with eating crayons.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 10:32:11 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline I wanted a rude username

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2019, 04:24:11 am »
"Drawing with" is charitable.  ;D

 

Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2019, 05:27:03 am »
7. Non-intuitive
8. One's software breaks other people's software
9. Nightmare to install programs and know where that shit went in the filesystem
10. Anything else I did not have time to write about.

What? Windows? Sounds about right.

I got so sick of fixing Windows on my mom's computer that I threw Ubuntu Linux on there around 3 years ago as an experiment and it has gone astonishingly well. It just works, I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to mess with it since. Every once in a while I run apt-get update to update everything, other than that it runs her browser, email client, word processor and spreadsheet, she can print her invoices and write her newsletter. Works great and saves me a lot of hassle.

I spent the first decade of my career working at Microsoft and at the time I loved Windows but the affair is over, it has devolved into a mess. Looks like a few linux haters have shown up here though, you can tell the people who haven't looked at it in 20 years and don't realize things have changed.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 05:33:25 am by james_s »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2019, 05:37:07 am »
MacOS and iOS are already close relatives to Linux and Android is Linux. Outside of Microsoft, most of the tech industry and the vast majority of the internet back end runs on Linux. The only place that Linux is not absolutely dominant is the consumer and corporate desktop.

 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD  :palm:

Android USES Linux (The Colonel [Sanders]) - apart from that, it is UTTER TRASH.

What are you? 12?

Android is linux based, are you saying that's not true or are you having difficulty with reading comprehension?

I'm not a fan of Android and don't use it myself but it is the most widely used consumer operating system by a wide margin. Currently on about 2.5 Billion devices it dwarfs all other consumer operating systems combined.
 

Offline taydin

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2019, 10:05:26 am »
7. Non-intuitive
8. One's software breaks other people's software
9. Nightmare to install programs and know where that shit went in the filesystem
10. Anything else I did not have time to write about.

You've got it backwards for items 8, 9  :D Those are exactly attributes of Windows OS.

8. This issue was called "DLL Hell" under Windows. Microsoft's attempt at solving this was using DLL assemblies and manifests. Linux never had the "overwriting of common libraries" issue. Libraries under Linux were versioned since their first inception.
9. Perfect description of the situation under Windows. Try to install a MS Visual Studio and then obtain a list of what was installed where. But all package managers under Linux can give you this list on demand!
Real programmers use machine code!

My hobby projects http://mekatronik.org/forum
 
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2019, 10:31:00 am »
I suspect Bud has never actually properly used Linux before?

"Drawing with" is charitable.  ;D



Sorry, my mistake, I have corrected my original post.
 
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Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2019, 12:57:33 pm »
(O.P. here).  Well, that went a bit wild! Including some Anti-Linux salvos across the bow !  ;D
I just realized that when I originally quoted 1760 Sony PS-3's, that coincidentally that is the
same number of Yards in a Mile!  If the U.S. was 'Metric', maybe they would have rounded it
off to 2000 units!!  Just 'sayin'...  (Ok, i'm finished...)   :palm:

P.S.  Eating crayons causes 'Giant-Hand' syndrome!!!
 

Online eti

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2019, 03:26:48 am »
MacOS and iOS are already close relatives to Linux and Android is Linux. Outside of Microsoft, most of the tech industry and the vast majority of the internet back end runs on Linux. The only place that Linux is not absolutely dominant is the consumer and corporate desktop.

 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD  :palm:

Android USES Linux (The Colonel [Sanders]) - apart from that, it is UTTER TRASH.

What are you? 12?

Android is linux based, are you saying that's not true or are you having difficulty with reading comprehension?

I'm not a fan of Android and don't use it myself but it is the most widely used consumer operating system by a wide margin. Currently on about 2.5 Billion devices it dwarfs all other consumer operating systems combined.

How is my age, in any way related to the fact that you said "Android is Linux", and then changed that to "Linux-based"? It's not even Linux-based, it's JAVA-based and just happens to USE Linux kernel, somehow - the marketing muppets use the "It runs on Linux" schtick to make it appear "cool" to nerds. They also push (as do many other tireseome bores) the whole "Open Source" bollocks - who CARES, so long as the phone works.

We didn't have all this obsessive, policital crap back when Nokia had the 3210/3310 etc - you bought a phone, got used to it and loved it, and weren't online ranting or raving about it like a complete sad sack loser.
 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2019, 01:28:02 pm »
MacOS and iOS are already close relatives to Linux and Android is Linux. Outside of Microsoft, most of the tech industry and the vast majority of the internet back end runs on Linux. The only place that Linux is not absolutely dominant is the consumer and corporate desktop.

 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD  :palm:

Android USES Linux (The Colonel [Sanders]) - apart from that, it is UTTER TRASH.

What are you? 12?

Android is linux based, are you saying that's not true or are you having difficulty with reading comprehension?

I'm not a fan of Android and don't use it myself but it is the most widely used consumer operating system by a wide margin. Currently on about 2.5 Billion devices it dwarfs all other consumer operating systems combined.

How is my age, in any way related to the fact that you said "Android is Linux", and then changed that to "Linux-based"? It's not even Linux-based, it's JAVA-based and just happens to USE Linux kernel, somehow - the marketing muppets use the "It runs on Linux" schtick to make it appear "cool" to nerds. They also push (as do many other tireseome bores) the whole "Open Source" bollocks - who CARES, so long as the phone works.

We didn't have all this obsessive, policital crap back when Nokia had the 3210/3310 etc - you bought a phone, got used to it and loved it, and weren't online ranting or raving about it like a complete sad sack loser.

Wow... You seem to get quite angry... Maybe step outside & smell the roses, and hear the birds!   ;D
I'm sure that I, yourself, & others have made 'typos', or accidentally mis-phrased something, but take
a 'chill-pill' when you come back in from outside. People will, on a forum like this, talk about various tech
aspects of equip out of interest, whether they 'Need' to know it or not, as in the Android/Linux/Phone stuff.  8)

'Phrasing' aside, Android SmartPhones DO utilize a Linux Kernel, it does not supply a typical Front-End to
it, as per the typical various Linux distribution 'Builds' like Ubuntu etc. When you boot an Android device, the
Linux kernel loads just like it would on a Linux distribution. However, much of the other software is different.
The 'Android' variation to the front end is specifically designed to deal with the Touch Screens etc.

You mentioned Java....  Rather than running typical Linux applications, Android uses the Dalvik Virtual Machine
to essentially run applications written in Java. These applications are targeted at Android devices and the
application programming interfaces (APIs) Android provides rather than being targeted at Linux in general.
I know all this now, as I researched it, just out of interest. Not because our lives depend on it.   :-+

P.S.  Out of interest, I found ref to an interesting App for Android phones!! It works without the phone being
'Rooted', but evidently has more power when it is. It's called Terminal Emulator for Android....
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jackpal.androidterm
It's a new version, to Access your Android's built-in Linux command line shell. Unleash your inner geek!  >:D

Have a happy new year...  :clap:
 
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2020, 04:51:10 am »
In a nutshell:

Linux is robust, Windows is not.
Linux can be multi-user, Windows cannot.
Linux tell you when it has booted up with all subsystems ready, Windows does not.
Linux is not user friendly for artists, politicians and old age pensioners, Windows is.
Linux was created by a first class nerd, Windows was created by a first class turd.

I ran an IRLP server for nine years on a Linux machine (Mandrake) that got a lot of use around Melbourne. I NEVER had to rebooted it. I NEVER had to fiddle with the software. It had a UPS. In nine years all I needed to do was replace a noisy fan. You would NEVER get that sort of reliability out of Windows, even today. https://serverfault.com/questions/274089/how-often-do-windows-servers-need-to-be-restarted
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2020, 06:40:50 am »
=
How is my age, in any way related to the fact that you said "Android is Linux", and then changed that to "Linux-based"? It's not even Linux-based, it's JAVA-based and just happens to USE Linux kernel, somehow - the marketing muppets use the "It runs on Linux" schtick to make it appear "cool" to nerds. They also push (as do many other tireseome bores) the whole "Open Source" bollocks - who CARES, so long as the phone works.

We didn't have all this obsessive, policital crap back when Nokia had the 3210/3310 etc - you bought a phone, got used to it and loved it, and weren't online ranting or raving about it like a complete sad sack loser.

I'm really not sure why this has triggered such an angry response. You cannot extrapolate the meaning from the phrase "Android is linux" without it being explicitly laid out that linux is just the kernel? Would you accept that Ubuntu is linux? Or are you so pedantic that I have to be long winded and call it a unix-like operating system that runs one of several graphical environments and a bash shell upon the linux kernel? Are you going to jump on me if I say that "wine is alcohol" instead of calling it a grape-based beverage containing some amount of alcohol? Are you familiar with the concept of implied details? I'm consistently amazed with the degree of pedantry I encounter in this forum, being slightly autistic I've long had a tendency to interpret things literally but some people take that to a whole new level and are either incapable or unwilling to extrapolate anything.

I don't see a lot of people touting the open source nature of Android or choosing it based on that aspect either, most people when they want a phone choose one of the two available mobile operating systems and do not do any hacking or tweaking at all. Which one of those two available platforms can I choose that won't cause you to throw a fit and get your knickers in a twist?

The only person I see ranting and raving here is you, and I'm at a loss as to why you're this upset about a phone OS. Yes some people get overly attached to their device of choice, you'll see the same arguments raging on over computer operating systems, brands of car or truck, clothing, politicians, you name it, makes no real sense to me but so what?

Meanwhile I generally do as you suggest, I use my iphone, my Android tablet, my Windows and Linux PCs and generally not rant about them, they all have aspects I like and aspects I dislike but for the most part I'm able to do what I need with any of them. The only operating system I have banished from my home is Win10 and that isn't because it's Windows, it's because I had to use that particular version at work for 2 years and hated it for many reasons I don't feel like hashing out again. Win7 is still quite nice, the only reason I've been shifting over to Linux is because Win7 is not going to be viable indefinitely and I need something that I don't have to constantly fight with. The fact that Linux is open source enables there to be choices, if a particular distro goes in a direction I don't like, I can switch to another one that is more to my liking. I'm not stuck with something that is fully controlled by one particular company. If somebody were going to maintain Win7 indefinitely I'd be content to just keep using that but we already know that isn't gonna happen.
 
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Online Ed.Kloonk

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2020, 10:25:38 am »
The whole Android is Linux thing comes from the nonsense belief that one represents the other just be having an association on a certain platform. Android is not Linux. Android uses Linux but seems to use it ass-backwards to a small but not insignificant number of desktop Linux users.

 
 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2020, 01:54:49 pm »
OK...  I'm getting a bit confused here now, about who said what. In my last reply
I was only keeping it friendly and light hearted!   ;D ;D
So I'll just back up slowly, turn around, and whistle a fun tune while walking quickly!   :-DD
 
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2020, 02:25:14 pm »
So we decided to put this cold turd back in the microwave for another spin? I'll get the blender so some folks can suck it up.  :popcorn:
 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2020, 02:49:26 pm »
Wow...  ???...  Some people are just so negative & angry... ???
Great start for the new year... sigh  :palm:
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2020, 08:04:14 pm »
The whole Android is Linux thing comes from the nonsense belief that one represents the other just be having an association on a certain platform. Android is not Linux. Android uses Linux but seems to use it ass-backwards to a small but not insignificant number of desktop Linux users.

There's nothing incorrect about saying "Android is linux". It's similar to saying "My car is diesel", any normal person is going to know that means "my car is powered by an engine that burns diesel fuel" and not "my car is literally just a big blob of diesel", but it's not normally necessary to explicitly state the entire thing because most people are able to extrapolate the correct meaning from the simpler statement.

When one says "Android is linux" there is obviously an implied "based" on the end. It's already well established that "Linux" technically refers to the Linux kernel itself but it is not incorrect to refer to any entire distro as "Linux". Take away the kernel from Android and what do you have left? What non-linux kernels can it run on? I would argue that it's a Linux distro much like Ubuntu or Redhat are.

Sheesh  |O
 

Offline vwestlife

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2020, 09:10:10 pm »
What, two pages and no "I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux" copypasta yet?
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2020, 07:06:32 am »
What, two pages and no "I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux" copypasta yet?
Windows is so obviously superior, even the dirty long-haired smellies have lost their zeal.
 

Offline Zucca

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2020, 08:15:23 pm »
I am thinking to migrate my PC, open questions for the Linux guys:

1) What do you use for Video editing? I use Adobe Premiere
2) What do you use for Photo editing? I use Adobe Lightroom/Photoshop
3) I am addicted to Total Commander but I think I will find something to replace it, any direct experience?
4) I love Autohotkey, do you Linux guys used something like this? I can find surely something to replace it, but I dream somebody out there having a diret experience.

Why stupid Adobe do not want to offer something for the Linux platform?
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Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2020, 08:43:23 pm »
I use Shotcut for video editing and Gimp for photo editing, whether they will meet your needs I can't say but they're adequate for mine. Gimp is great although like many open source products the name is completely stupid and does not have a professional feel at all, I suspect it would be much more successful if it had a more classy sounding name.

For games and other things that need Windows you can sometimes run the Windows version under WINE or you can run Windows in a VM using VirtualBox. Another option is to just keep a Windows machine around too, personally I do all of these things depending on what I'm trying to do.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2020, 06:36:13 am »
1) What do you use for Video editing? I use Adobe Premiere
2) What do you use for Photo editing? I use Adobe Lightroom/Photoshop
3) I am addicted to Total Commander but I think I will find something to replace it, any direct experience?
4) I love Autohotkey, do you Linux guys used something like this? I can find surely something to replace it, but I dream somebody out there having a diret experience.
  • I don't edit videos.
  • Gimp, and various command line utilities when dealing with lots of images
  • Never used Total Commander, but each Desktop Environment has their own file manager, so try Gnome, Cinnamon, KDE, XFCE, LXDE at least to see which one you like most.
  • All DEs support keyboard shortcuts (usually found in your keyboard configuration tool), allowing you to run any script or program when a specific key combination is pressed.  Accessing already open windows or the active window in the GUI is not as easy, but there are pretty standard utilities like wmctrl and xclip.  Manipulating displays is quite easy with xrandr.
In general, I would say that if you look for tool similar to Z I used in Windows, you'll be severely disappointed.
However, if you are interested and have the time to look for new, easier and more efficient ways to achieve Y or perform X, then you'll find lots of tools to try and adapt to your will.
Just remember that facts or axioms that applied in Windows, do not necessarily apply in Linux, so you might have to learn to think outside the box first.

The main difference between Windows and Mac OS, and Linux, being that in Linux, there is no "best or recommended way" to do things; it is completely up to you to find and setup the workflow that works for you, the OS/DE does not have one to impose on you.
 
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Offline Zucca

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2020, 01:53:33 pm »
Thanks Animal for your interesting reply.

I used Autohotkey for example to autotype my email address domain

"@mydomain.com"

I just have to type "@m" and autohotkey complete the address for me, regardless where I am typing my email address.
Furthermore I use Autohotkey to do a lot more boring stuff I do not want to mention here (connected to an HASU USB converter to control more keyboards), what to you think about this one:

https://github.com/autokey/autokey

Anyway I understand fully your suggestion so maybe there is something in Linux that sits beetween keyboard and mouse and the linux core to generate keyboard and mouse automated scripts. I will research.

Anybody can tell me more about the driver support in Linux? I hope the HW market in 201920 understood a hardware must run not only in windows and iOS.

PS: Since yesterday my win pc is throwing at me BSOD, if it is not HW related I will switch soon.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 02:20:53 pm by Zucca »
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Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2020, 04:41:09 pm »
Hardware support is a mixed bag, a lot of consumer-centric hardware has less Linux support, most professional/SOHO gear is well supported. When I installed Ubuntu on a couple of my Lenovo laptops it found all the drivers and everything just worked. As with anything, YMMV, but if you have Linux in mind when shopping for hardware it is no problem to get supported equipment.
 
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Offline borjam

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2020, 06:33:54 pm »
Apple will eventually discard macOS and replace it with iOS anyway. Then they will release a touch-screen laptop and claim it's a world-first innovation.
That would be really stupid. Developers need a viable development platform, so that means it won't happen. Unlike Microsoft and its nail and hammer philosophy.
 

Offline borjam

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2020, 06:39:32 pm »
MacOS and iOS are already close relatives to Linux and Android is Linux. Outside of Microsoft, most of the tech industry and the vast majority of the internet back end runs on Linux. The only place that Linux is not absolutely dominant is the consumer and corporate desktop.
While I understand the fascination with Linux experienced by Windows refugees, it's worth pointing out that the world begun before the 90's when Linus Thorvalds wrote Linux. Linux is a descendant of Unix, an operating system created in the early 70's originating a really huge family tree of descendants. Among them, if only by inspiration, you can certainly find Linux.

Surprisingly enough, Macos X is a proper Unix system. And you can find a lot of former users of Unix systems such as Sun workstations using Macos X now.

The majority of the Internet back end does not run on Linux if you mean moving packets. The dominant router manufacturers are Cisco (using their own operating system) and Juniper. Juniper uses JunOS, which is based on FreeBSD. FreeBSD is, by the way, a major contributor to Macos X :)

And what is FreeBSD? A descendant of the good old BSD Unix system. A system Linux zealots love to despise because their self esteem needs it :P
 

Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2020, 07:04:53 pm »
When one says the majority of the internet "runs on Linux" they are clearly referring to the servers hosting the sites, serving DNS, etc, not the routers moving packets. I don't have any data on the ratio of servers to routers/switches and similar support gear but it would not surprise me if it's at least 20:1.

Linux is one of many Unix and unix-like operating systems. It just happens to be one of the few that is freely available and by far the most widely supported Unix-like OS that runs on commodity hardware.
 

Offline vwestlife

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2020, 08:05:12 pm »
Surprisingly enough, Macos X is a proper Unix system. And you can find a lot of former users of Unix systems such as Sun workstations using Macos X now.
Why is that "surprising"? Apple even advertised it as such:



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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2020, 09:40:13 am »
https://github.com/autokey/autokey
Haven't used that one, and it is for Xorg only. Meaning, it is basically a standard application that asks Xorg to deliver it copies of all keyboard events, and when it sees the hotkey'd ones, it generates the needed additional keypress events.  It won't work on the terminal console (say, serial terminals, or on SSH connections to the machine), but it should work fine in Gnome, Cinnamon, KDE, XFCE, and LXDE environments (as long as they use Xorg and not Wayland).

maybe there is something in Linux that sits beetween keyboard and mouse and the linux core to generate keyboard and mouse automated scripts
There are three things.
  • Linux Input Subsystem.  It is basically the interface to all Human Interface Devices: keyboards, mice, tablets, touch screens, joystics, et cetera.  It provides one event interface device per device.  (Some devices, like touchpads on laptops with buttons both above and below the touchpad, are actually two separate devices, with the second device being usually a generic mouse with just the buttons but no movement axes.)  You can examine these events by running evtest as root.

    Each event interface by default provides copies of the events to each application that has the device open.  Keyboard events are also forwarded to the process that is reading from the terminal console, and mouse and touchpad events to a combined "mice" device.  An event interface device can also be "grabbed", so that the events are exclusive to the process, and not forwarded by the kernel.

    There is also an uinput event device, that can be used to create new event interface devices that look exactly like hardware devices, and emit events into them.  It can be used to echo events from a grabbed device, inserting new events as needed, on the kernel level.

    For example, you can create a daemon that monitors (not grabs) keypresses, and when it detects a specific keypress, it generates a mouse or touchpad event that moves the pointer by a specific amount in a specific direction.

    Because the Linux Input Subsystem is a part of the kernel, this works with all Human Interface Devices connected to the machine.

    Examples I've shown at StackOverflow include a basic skeleton of a daemon that reads keyboard events from a barcode scanner, verifying and translating them, before emitting the barcode as if it was typed on a numeric keyboard.
     
  • Pseudoterminal interfaces.  These are used by "command-line" applications, including things like shells and SSH-connections.  Basically, tools like screen can interpose a pseudoterminal interface on top of an existing one, and do all sorts of translations between the two.  GNU screen itself is a tool that allows you to for example connect to a remote machine, run screen there, do something, log out, later log back in and connect to the existing screen session -- the applications running in the session see the user as continuously connected, as screen hides the SSH connection loss from the applications in its session.  Equally, it could do input translation and hotkey stuff.  (It actually might.)

    Unfortunately, the session management in systemd may make using tools like screen harder, since systemd forgoes the Unix philosophy of modular tools, and often assumes that when the user logs out, all the processed started in that session should be killed, also killing screen.

    In practice, any kind of translation at this level is exceedingly rare.  Possible, but probably only useful as a gag; say a fake shell.
     
  • Desktop Environment.  In Linux, there are two main servers, Xorg and Wayland, that can act as the base server.  It provides basic 2D and OpenGL functionality, and an event interface.  They do provide a mechanism for applications to interpose (or divert the events to themselves) for AutoKey-like functionality.

    Desktop Environments are sets of applications on top of such a server, implementing toolbars, menus, window decorations, media services, and so on.  The current ones already monitor for specific keypresses (for things like volume and brightness controls, menu popups, et cetera), and all have a facility for the user to add new keypresses that either copy an existing functionality, or execute a custom script or program.
In most cases, the Desktop Environment (or Xorg) -based one is most suitable for Autokey-like functionality.

Things like translating the output from a barcode scanner, or combining multiple different devices into one (say two joystics into a wheel and a joystic, to physically use two-stick-steering in driving simulatiors), should be done on the Linux Input Subsystem level.

For example, if you or your kids like playing free online two-player games, but using a single keyboard or different keys is annoying (they usually use W/A/S/D for one player, and cursor keys for the other), one could easily write a Linux Input Subsystem daemon that grabs two specific gamepads or keyboards, and translates them to keypresses on a single keyboard, with very little latency (not enough to notice on even small SBCs on kernels configured for interactive use (HZ at least 100, preferably 1000).  Just fire up a browser, open a two-player game you like, use a small GUI tool to select the two keyboards/gamepads and the mappings used, and play away.  The tool and the daemon are not complicated programs at all; personally, I find the UI design for even such small tool to take more time than the actual daemon code.

(It is simpler, though, to use a microcontroller with a native USB interface, like ATmega32u4 (as in Arduino Micro and Leonardo; SparkFun Pro Micro; Teensy 2.0; Makey Makey; and a ton of custom keyboards and gamepads), and have them simply enumerate as an USB HID device, and generate the proper keypresses themselves.  That works on all computers, and requires no drivers; and there is even existing Arduino code to do it nicely.  The only "problem" is making the physical gamepad itself; whereas one can buy cheap but okay USB ones off fleabay and elsewhere.  And if you want to change the keys they generate, you again need a small UI tool; I'm not sure if suitable open source ones already exist.  Years back, I made myself one, using an arcade joystick and buttons, on top of a 30cm by 60cm 18mm thick birch board.)
 
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Offline borjam

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2020, 10:38:48 am »
Surprisingly enough, Macos X is a proper Unix system. And you can find a lot of former users of Unix systems such as Sun workstations using Macos X now.

Why is that "surprising"? Apple even advertised it as such:
I don't find it surprising at all, but many people consider it like a sort of crippled system worse than Windows. I work naturally between FreeBSD and Macos X without problems.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2020, 02:05:27 pm »
many people consider [MacOS X] like a sort of crippled system worse than Windows. I work naturally between FreeBSD and Macos X without problems.
I don't mind Mac OS at all; I even maintained MacOS 7.5 to 8.6 workstations at an university for a couple of years.  Mac OS X seems well suited to e.g. video processing in my opinion.  I've done some interesting graphics work (work, not design) on Macs myself, decades ago; and nowadays, when occasionally using someone elses Mac, the OS still feels intuitive, responsive, and polished, while still letting me access the non-GUI Unixy stuff when needed.  (Recently I tested Python 3 and Qt 5, as I'd like to write some CSV-processing tools for my brother.)  It's nice.

But Apple, the company, has business practices that make me steer away from their products:  I like to tinker and adjust my machines, and bend them to my will and whim.  Apple does not like that, especially when it comes to hardware or repairs.
 

Offline I wanted a rude username

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2020, 01:00:56 am »
Apple does not like that, especially when it comes to hardware or repairs.

You could make a good case that in general Apple is actually stricter about software. Look how they go after attempts to allow people to run whatever software they want on iOS. Without "jailbreaking" the phone, the user is barred from installing any apps except from Apple's app store. That doesn't apply to macOS yet, but I stand by the prediction that they will eventually kill it in favour of iOS (otherwise why would they be holding off on adding touchscreen support?).
 

Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2020, 01:30:15 am »
Maybe because they feel similarly to myself in that touchscreens on laptop and desktop computers are stupid. They got to watch microsoft push the concept relentlessly and fall flat on their face. Touch makes sense on a tablet, I will never buy a laptop with a touchscreen if I can help it and will disable touch if forced to have it. People putting finger smudges on my monitor is one of my biggest peeves.
 
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Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2020, 04:24:37 pm »
Back then when we had an PC Shop we tried to convince People to use some Linux Distribution instead of Win XP.
My Personal offer was if the want change to XP the bought the Licence and I install it them for free.
What happens? ALL switch to XP after a while why?
a) The Game from the grandchild was not possible to install ( :=\ the mention it never before...)
b) The Software for there Crappy Navigation Device was only Variable for XP.
c) Open office could not opens some MS Office Files correct.
And a ton of other thinks...

In my Case I tried to use Suse I guess and nothing worked right. ATI Crossfire failed.
My 2 Display Setup was horrible and not possible to Setup right.
I never found the Shut-down Switch in th GUI. Install Software require a Degree in Software Engineering.
Some Simple Task who just work under Windows 7 require a Multi Day Research and didnt work after that...

I have the Problem with the FUCKING ANDROID CRAP WHO I REALY HATE (!!!!  :horse:  :box:) I cant Config the LAN PORT when I connect the Phone to the USB-C Dock!!! I need to set the Proxy Server! How? Nobody Know since the Fucking LAN Port never show up in the Settings! And now its LAN NOT WLAN!!!

In every Desktop I would set the Proxy in the Web browser its possible in Android? NO!  :palm:
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Offline george.b

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2020, 04:32:34 am »
Regarding the whole "Android is Linux" kerfuffle: this is Linux enough for me.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 04:34:20 am by george.b »
 

Offline david77

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2020, 10:38:28 am »
Ah! That's the way I like my Linux!

But for everyday tasks and pretty pictures Bill's OS is just superior (Don't get upset, just my view).
 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2020, 01:59:28 pm »
Maybe because they feel similarly to myself in that touchscreens on laptop and desktop computers are stupid. They got to watch microsoft push the concept relentlessly and fall flat on their face. Touch makes sense on a tablet, I will never buy a laptop with a touchscreen if I can help it and will disable touch if forced to have it. People putting finger smudges on my monitor is one of my biggest peeves.

I don't think it is just a 'Microsoft' thing...
Yes, with windows-10 looking like it does, I firmly believe that is aimed at the 'modern' TouchScreen era.
You & I, (others), may not like it, but the future IS touch screens & portable devices for 'engineers' etc on
site, with 'smart' links to the 'Cloud' etc.  But being 'old-school' I don't like it.
We are going back to the old original days of 'Dumb Terminals'.

A lot of 'modern' Laptops, not only have 'TouchScreens', but can be FOLDED in various ways now so as to
emulate 'Tablets', if one is used to moving back/forward to such devices.
I can understand the need for that, and my latest Laptop has that function. It's a great precursor!!   :-+
 

Offline Karel

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2020, 02:28:33 pm »
We are going back to the old original days of 'Dumb Terminals'.

Can't wait to see an industrial grade EDA that runs in the cloud using a "dumb terminal" as a client...

 

Offline Karel

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2020, 02:31:22 pm »
But for everyday tasks and pretty pictures Bill's OS is just superior (Don't get upset, just my view).

In my experience, it's the Bill's OS user who gets upset when he/she asks for my help to fix his/her pc and I tell him/her I use Linux and don't want to touch their pc because I detest it...
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2020, 04:47:31 pm »
I would have agreed up through Win7, possibly even 8 despite the horrid UI it was at least stable and could be worked around. Win10 is in a constant state of flux though, a perpetual beta with things changing and breaking with every forced update. I finally put Ubuntu on my mom's laptop a few years ago and it has just worked. It never changes so I don't have to try to teach her the new way of doing things every few months or find a new program to replace the one that was broken by an update or "helpfully" uninstalled because MS decided it was not compatible.
 

Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2020, 06:17:07 pm »
 ;) I guess your Mom didnt do someso special stuff.
I use Software who basically work under Win and there is nothing to further.
Under Linux the must be create a package and so on.  :scared:
I stick with W7 how long its even possible.
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Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2020, 03:19:31 am »
She does what most non-techie people do, she accesses the internet, shops, does email, types up her newsletters and does the billing for her business. The operating system is irrelevant.

I still quite like Win7 and use it on my primary laptop but I have Linux on everything else at this point and it does most of what I need. There are only a very small number of things I still use that need Windows, and for historical reasons I am more adept at fixing Windows if something breaks but Win10 I don't really consider to be Windows anymore. It is changing and breaking in so many ways that I found it to be almost unusable.
 

Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2020, 12:32:51 pm »
Quote
and does the billing for her business. The operating system is irrelevant.
So when she run a Company you need to use Windows because the Software you mostly need to communicate with the Authorities just work under Win.

I dont know if a Billing Software even exist for a Linux System who fit in the requirements from the Austrian Authorities. You are required to send every Sale directly to them to avoid Manipulation afterwards.
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Online eti

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2020, 02:24:57 am »
But for everyday tasks and pretty pictures Bill's OS is just superior (Don't get upset, just my view).

In my experience, it's the Bill's OS user who gets upset when he/she asks for my help to fix his/her pc and I tell him/her I use Linux and don't want to touch their pc because I detest it...

You ACTUALLY say that to people? It's binary code, nothing else. All this hippy dippy software "community" nonsense has turned people's minds to mush. It's just a dumb box of solder and chips. Do you like helping people? So help them,.and set your pet peeves and overthinking aside for their sake. Helping your friend overrides any obsession you may have over software choices.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 02:27:14 am by eti »
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2020, 01:50:29 pm »
Do you like helping people? So help them,.and set your pet peeves and overthinking aside for their sake. Helping your friend overrides any obsession you may have over software choices.
My sarcasm detector :-BROKE but the truth is, sometimes tough love is better than coddling.

As for myself, the reason I don't help with Windows issues is that I haven't used the thing in fifteen years; I would not know anything about the issues or their solutions. :-//
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2020, 03:53:00 pm »
My sarcasm detector :-BROKE but the truth is, sometimes tough love is better than coddling.

As for myself, the reason I don't help with Windows issues is that I haven't used the thing in fifteen years; I would not know anything about the issues or their solutions. :-//

Nope, no sarcasm there - the dude's serious. Both eti AND Karel in one thread, arguing each other, oh boy, oh boy! I'd love a collaborative video blog or at least a podcast by those two :popcorn:
 

Online eti

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2020, 12:12:21 am »
MacOS and iOS are already close relatives to Linux and Android is Linux. Outside of Microsoft, most of the tech industry and the vast majority of the internet back end runs on Linux. The only place that Linux is not absolutely dominant is the consumer and corporate desktop.

 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD  :palm:

Android USES Linux (The Colonel [Sanders]) - apart from that, it is UTTER TRASH.

What are you? 12?

Android is linux based, are you saying that's not true or are you having difficulty with reading comprehension?

I'm not a fan of Android and don't use it myself but it is the most widely used consumer operating system by a wide margin. Currently on about 2.5 Billion devices it dwarfs all other consumer operating systems combined.

How is my age, in any way related to the fact that you said "Android is Linux", and then changed that to "Linux-based"? It's not even Linux-based, it's JAVA-based and just happens to USE Linux kernel, somehow - the marketing muppets use the "It runs on Linux" schtick to make it appear "cool" to nerds. They also push (as do many other tireseome bores) the whole "Open Source" bollocks - who CARES, so long as the phone works.

We didn't have all this obsessive, policital crap back when Nokia had the 3210/3310 etc - you bought a phone, got used to it and loved it, and weren't online ranting or raving about it like a complete sad sack loser.

Wow... You seem to get quite angry... Maybe step outside & smell the roses, and hear the birds!   ;D
I'm sure that I, yourself, & others have made 'typos', or accidentally mis-phrased something, but take
a 'chill-pill' when you come back in from outside. People will, on a forum like this, talk about various tech
aspects of equip out of interest, whether they 'Need' to know it or not, as in the Android/Linux/Phone stuff.  8)

'Phrasing' aside, Android SmartPhones DO utilize a Linux Kernel, it does not supply a typical Front-End to
it, as per the typical various Linux distribution 'Builds' like Ubuntu etc. When you boot an Android device, the
Linux kernel loads just like it would on a Linux distribution. However, much of the other software is different.
The 'Android' variation to the front end is specifically designed to deal with the Touch Screens etc.

You mentioned Java....  Rather than running typical Linux applications, Android uses the Dalvik Virtual Machine
to essentially run applications written in Java. These applications are targeted at Android devices and the
application programming interfaces (APIs) Android provides rather than being targeted at Linux in general.
I know all this now, as I researched it, just out of interest. Not because our lives depend on it.   :-+

P.S.  Out of interest, I found ref to an interesting App for Android phones!! It works without the phone being
'Rooted', but evidently has more power when it is. It's called Terminal Emulator for Android....
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jackpal.androidterm
It's a new version, to Access your Android's built-in Linux command line shell. Unleash your inner geek!  >:D

Have a happy new year...  :clap:

These are far from revelations. Any newcomer to Linux, using Android phones would have (and has been) using these precise methods and apps for many, many years. It's fine that you're recommending them, but to talk aloof, assuming no one else has this "inside knowledge" is quite alarming. Let's be frank - it's not like you're the sole user of t'internet - this stuff is extremely basic knowledge which is years old.

Yes you're right, we all need to step outside and get a break (I live in blissful English countryside, so it's on my doorstep, and I do it daily); you're absolutely right, and it's easy to lose perspective.

You didn't need to ladle on the scoops of "look at how much knowledge I possess" - the stuff you reference is trivial in the IT world, but I thank you nevertheless..
 

Online eti

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2020, 12:18:46 am »
My sarcasm detector :-BROKE but the truth is, sometimes tough love is better than coddling.

As for myself, the reason I don't help with Windows issues is that I haven't used the thing in fifteen years; I would not know anything about the issues or their solutions. :-//

Nope, no sarcasm there - the dude's serious. Both eti AND Karel in one thread, arguing each other, oh boy, oh boy! I'd love a collaborative video blog or at least a podcast by those two :popcorn:

You, my friend, are a beacon of light in a dark world; a shining example to many of how to ignore those having a bad day, week, month... or life, and rise above it all with the actions and words that could only come from years of experience... of sage wisdom.

Have a great week.
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2020, 09:58:11 am »
You, my friend, are a beacon of light in a dark world; a shining example to many of how to ignore those having a bad day, week, month... or life, and rise above it all with the actions and words that could only come from years of experience... of sage wisdom.

Have a great week.

That's what she said. Thanks, have a good one yourself.
 

Offline borjam

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #63 on: January 17, 2020, 01:05:57 pm »
In my experience, it's the Bill's OS user who gets upset when he/she asks for my help to fix his/her pc and I tell him/her I use Linux and don't want to touch their pc because I detest it...
Indeed. I recommend my friends and family to get a Mac. When they don't because some guy at the store told them it's just a fashion thing and they call me for help, I tell them I am a hopeless ignorant and they must ask the ACM Turing Laureate at the nearby computer store.

My funniest computer illiterate friend who required assistance now and then is a Law professor. The typical call was "Sorry, I am trying to print and it doesn't work". So I told him "prepare a wine bottle!". I arrived to his home (500 m away from mine), plug the USB cable he kept forgetting about and enjoy a nice chat over good wine  :-DD :-DD

Paranormal problems requiring an hour or two of voodoo? None at all!

And no, the OS is not irrelevant especially for general users. I remember a friend, a surgeon, who wanted a computer for certain specific tasks:

- Editing photos from operations

- Writing papers for congresses

- Email

I told him to get a Mac. Two weeks later he called in horror, some malware had destroyed a lot of work. Of course he had got a PC because, well, Macs are not worth it and yada yada.

His final decision? He wouldn't use the PC for email because, well, it was dangerous. I suggested him to claim 30 % back of the computer price because it was entirely unsuitable for one of his original purposes.

A year later he got wiser, bought a Mac and he never looked back :P

And no, blaming a user of most malware incidents is like blaming a woman of a rape because she was dressed like...
 

Online eti

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #64 on: January 17, 2020, 11:34:15 pm »
I think the whole "OS vs OS" is irrelevant. They're tools; one doesn't look at a spanner, whilst holding a screwdriver, and say "pah, stupid spanners, screwdrivers are way, wayyy better"

They're DIFFERENT TOOLS. It's mind boggling that such rhetoric needs reinforcing, but they're not pets or favourite flavours of cheese, they're specific TOOLS, and we don't have to get in silly squabbles nor "take sides".

I run Windows apps on windows, because it works best on Windows. Same applies for other platforms. Whether or not said OS is my "favourite" would never even enter my mind; how very idiotic a notion to want to argue over them.

People must, sadly, have empty lives to get so worked up and passionate over something so very meaningless.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 11:36:36 pm by eti »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #65 on: January 18, 2020, 03:33:44 am »
Not really, it's much more like comparing two different brands of the same tool. They're not identical but they do roughly the same thing. Most of the software I use today is available on both platforms, a few other applications have similar equivalents, a few things are Windows only so I still have a Win7 machine and several versions of Windows in VMs. Not much these days though and not anything the average home computer user needs. Windows vs Linux as a tool analogy would be far more like comparing a Snap-On spanner with a cheap generic brand, except in an alternate universe where the cheap tool is more solidly constructed and durable albeit not suitable for some of the more specific niche applications.

Just as an example, I can easily show you a Windows and Linux PC side by side, each with the same wallpaper, running the Chrome and/or Firefox browser, Thunderbird email client, GIMP photo editor, Inkscape drawing, Libre Office, KiCAD EDA, Quartus II FPGA IDE, Audacity audio editor, etc all on identical laptops printing on the same printer.

So tell me how these are completely different tools? The only Windows-only programs I can even think of that I still use are Vixen for controlling my Halloween display, Winamp as a quick audio player and Irfanview is an excellent photo viewer.

Everything else is cross platform anyway and the difference is barely noticeable. Case in point, my mother texted me the other night asking if she should worry about the announcement that Windows 7 had reached end of support. I told her that she hasn't had Windows at all in over 3 years. She's not technical and hardly knows the difference except that Ubuntu works and I don't have to come by regularly to fix Windows. It runs all the same programs she was already using.

And yes I agree that it's very strange when people get so worked up and passionate about something that doesn't really matter, as I recall you getting extremely worked up and passionate about it recently, unless it was someone else who blew a gasket over mention of one mobile OS or another.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 03:35:44 am by james_s »
 
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Online eti

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2020, 01:41:41 am »
Well, that's me told. :-X  The Linux & FOSS fanclubs are clearly having a convention nearby... :D

Why don't I ever recommend niche OS' to the average home user? Because friends or relatives will say "Have you got <software name>" or "Do you have iTunes?" etc. Unless you have superhuman patience, or like to make life unnecessarily difficult for yourself by needing to be 24-7 tech support, you're going to offer a mainstream solution which 99.9% of consumers, friends of the family etc can relate to... unless this is about more about you being in control of the situation and being able to come to the rescue to showcase your Linux prowess (yes, these types ARE EVERYWHERE!)

Next time an aging relative wants to research their lineage and create a family tree file, or a friend lends them a disc or whatever... "Oh, I don't know if that'll work on my PC, I've got this thing called 'Ubuntu' "
For the very same reason, I never EVER push Android phones on anyone "of a certain age" just because I can use it okay (because I'm technically inclined, lest anyone ever lose sight of that crucial element of offering platforms to family - don't push your pet platform "just because") ... no, I strongly urge them to use an iOS device, because that's all they need and they're VERY simple, and EVERYONE can do tech support, even young kids.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 01:54:46 am by eti »
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2020, 02:36:44 am »
For the very same reason, I never EVER push Android phones on anyone "of a certain age" just because I can use it okay (because I'm technically inclined, lest anyone ever lose sight of that crucial element of offering platforms to family - don't push your pet platform "just because") ... no, I strongly urge them to use an iOS device, because that's all they need and they're VERY simple, and EVERYONE can do tech support, even young kids.
Methinks you have a lifelong membership in the Apple fanclub, eh?  8)

The situation is reversed here in Finland (and I hear elsewhere in Europe, too): Android has 40% and iOS 60% of the market share on tablets in Finland; 74% and iOS 25% of the market share on phones.  Especially the kids are familiar with Android here, with iOS being somewhat rarer.

As an example, my mom (now 70), who till three years ago had no intention of ever using a computer, is now a pretty confident Android user.  Network settings still confuse her, and the Chromecast user interface for her TV isn't the friendliest (she already has terrestrial and satellite to deal with), but I hope to help her with those soonish, maybe with printed guide or something.

In the general sense, I do agree that helping others pick the device/OS based on their own usage patterns and availability of help is the way to go.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2020, 04:36:48 am »
I have a collection of Android and iOS phones and tablets that have accumulated, my iPhone is the only Apple device I actually paid for, the others are just random old devices people gave me due to various faults that I fixed. I find that they're both pretty similar really, iOS is superior in some respects while Android has other advantages. There are things about both that I absolutely loathe but that's a matter of choosing which I hate less more so than which I like better. The fact that several of my international friends have iPhones and I can text them for free using the proprietary iMessage format is the main thing that has kept me considering an iPhone going forward. It used to be the main reason was that the iPhone was available in a nice small size while all the decent Android phones were absurdly gigantic but now it seems like all phones are gigantic. I just hope my iPhone SE lasts until this ridiculous obsession with edge to edge screens and the resulting stupid notches and holes in the display for the front facing camera I have never once used passes because I refuse to buy one of those. I don't understand why some think those useless little ears flanking a notch is better than just having a small straight bezel at the top.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #69 on: January 19, 2020, 04:54:33 am »
Why don't I ever recommend niche OS' to the average home user? Because friends or relatives will say "Have you got <software name>" or "Do you have iTunes?" etc. Unless you have superhuman patience, or like to make life unnecessarily difficult for yourself by needing to be 24-7 tech support, you're going to offer a mainstream solution which 99.9% of consumers, friends of the family etc can relate to... unless this is about more about you being in control of the situation and being able to come to the rescue to showcase your Linux prowess (yes, these types ARE EVERYWHERE!)

Well after 3 years or so that has not been an issue over here yet, I got sick of cleaning up malware initially, and then I got sick of going over there constantly to log in as an admin and install things my mom needed once I locked it down so she couldn't infect it constantly. Then I put Ubuntu on there and I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to fix something. I dunno what to tell you, maybe my mom's needs are less specific than yours? Or maybe it's the fact that I know how to use Linux about as well as I know how to use Windows and you don't? I don't know, but it is irrelevant how common it is in the wild when I'm the only techie in the family, I'm going to get the tech support call no matter what. You support what you know how to support, I'll support what I'm comfortable supporting.

You're welcome to think it's me showing off if that's what makes you happy, but I assure you that in reality it's the fact that I'm very busy and don't want to be fixing her computer every time I visit. I have not had to play linux hacker at all, I set it up once, I installed the stuff she needed and I've hardly touched it since, I'm not sure I've ever even opened up a command line on that laptop, it's not 2005 anymore. I get the feeling that you have not touched a Linux PC in at least a decade, if you had, you'd realize your arguments don't really make any sense, it's pretty clear that it's a religious debate. Given I spend roughly equal time in both OS's, (as well as the Mac I use at work) and spent the first decade of my career working at Microsoft I'd say I'm a tad more qualified to comment and compare than someone who uses only one and bashes the one they don't know without even trying it, while slipping in passive-aggressive insults and insinuations.

 

Online eti

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #70 on: January 19, 2020, 06:28:19 pm »
Why don't I ever recommend niche OS' to the average home user? Because friends or relatives will say "Have you got <software name>" or "Do you have iTunes?" etc. Unless you have superhuman patience, or like to make life unnecessarily difficult for yourself by needing to be 24-7 tech support, you're going to offer a mainstream solution which 99.9% of consumers, friends of the family etc can relate to... unless this is about more about you being in control of the situation and being able to come to the rescue to showcase your Linux prowess (yes, these types ARE EVERYWHERE!)

Well after 3 years or so that has not been an issue over here yet, I got sick of cleaning up malware initially, and then I got sick of going over there constantly to log in as an admin and install things my mom needed once I locked it down so she couldn't infect it constantly. Then I put Ubuntu on there and I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to fix something. I dunno what to tell you, maybe my mom's needs are less specific than yours? Or maybe it's the fact that I know how to use Linux about as well as I know how to use Windows and you don't? I don't know, but it is irrelevant how common it is in the wild when I'm the only techie in the family, I'm going to get the tech support call no matter what. You support what you know how to support, I'll support what I'm comfortable supporting.

You're welcome to think it's me showing off if that's what makes you happy, but I assure you that in reality it's the fact that I'm very busy and don't want to be fixing her computer every time I visit. I have not had to play linux hacker at all, I set it up once, I installed the stuff she needed and I've hardly touched it since, I'm not sure I've ever even opened up a command line on that laptop, it's not 2005 anymore. I get the feeling that you have not touched a Linux PC in at least a decade, if you had, you'd realize your arguments don't really make any sense, it's pretty clear that it's a religious debate. Given I spend roughly equal time in both OS's, (as well as the Mac I use at work) and spent the first decade of my career working at Microsoft I'd say I'm a tad more qualified to comment and compare than someone who uses only one and bashes the one they don't know without even trying it, while slipping in passive-aggressive insults and insinuations.

I use Linux all day every day, and have done since 2003. I use it all the time, however, I would never install it on a PC used by someone needing support, and unfamiliar with it. That's my personal choice. I've used more distros than I can count (I have a HUGE folder of DVDs burnt in the early 00s, from SuSE to Slax, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, all the <*>untus, countless piles of old discs, and 5 raspberry Pis from model 2 to the lastest 4, one of which is in full time use. You see, this is where internet strangers slip up (me included, I am not having a dig at you) - we don't know one another - I am extremely skilled and adept with Linux, but you wouldn't be expected to know that, and that's cool. It's BECAUSE I know how much of a mess people can and DO get in, when they're in an unfamiliar environment, that I choose not to inflict that on them, and that is my own choice. I apologise, and am very sorry, if I came across as cocky - no one wants to hear that. :)

I have nothing to "prove" to anyone online, least of all strangers, except to prove that I am not a deliberately annoying or a rude person, in cases like this where I seem to have been - I am sorry -  so I shall bow out of this topic now. Thanks.

Take it easy.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 06:33:46 pm by eti »
 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #71 on: January 22, 2020, 12:44:13 pm »
MacOS and iOS are already close relatives to Linux and Android is Linux. Outside of Microsoft, most of the tech industry and the vast majority of the internet back end runs on Linux. The only place that Linux is not absolutely dominant is the consumer and corporate desktop.

 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD  :palm:

Android USES Linux (The Colonel [Sanders]) - apart from that, it is UTTER TRASH.

What are you? 12?

Android is linux based, are you saying that's not true or are you having difficulty with reading comprehension?

I'm not a fan of Android and don't use it myself but it is the most widely used consumer operating system by a wide margin. Currently on about 2.5 Billion devices it dwarfs all other consumer operating systems combined.

How is my age, in any way related to the fact that you said "Android is Linux", and then changed that to "Linux-based"? It's not even Linux-based, it's JAVA-based and just happens to USE Linux kernel, somehow - the marketing muppets use the "It runs on Linux" schtick to make it appear "cool" to nerds. They also push (as do many other tireseome bores) the whole "Open Source" bollocks - who CARES, so long as the phone works.

We didn't have all this obsessive, policital crap back when Nokia had the 3210/3310 etc - you bought a phone, got used to it and loved it, and weren't online ranting or raving about it like a complete sad sack loser.

Wow... You seem to get quite angry... Maybe step outside & smell the roses, and hear the birds!   ;D
I'm sure that I, yourself, & others have made 'typos', or accidentally mis-phrased something, but take
a 'chill-pill' when you come back in from outside. People will, on a forum like this, talk about various tech
aspects of equip out of interest, whether they 'Need' to know it or not, as in the Android/Linux/Phone stuff.  8)

'Phrasing' aside, Android SmartPhones DO utilize a Linux Kernel, it does not supply a typical Front-End to
it, as per the typical various Linux distribution 'Builds' like Ubuntu etc. When you boot an Android device, the
Linux kernel loads just like it would on a Linux distribution. However, much of the other software is different.
The 'Android' variation to the front end is specifically designed to deal with the Touch Screens etc.

You mentioned Java....  Rather than running typical Linux applications, Android uses the Dalvik Virtual Machine
to essentially run applications written in Java. These applications are targeted at Android devices and the
application programming interfaces (APIs) Android provides rather than being targeted at Linux in general.
I know all this now, as I researched it, just out of interest. Not because our lives depend on it.   :-+

P.S.  Out of interest, I found ref to an interesting App for Android phones!! It works without the phone being
'Rooted', but evidently has more power when it is. It's called Terminal Emulator for Android....
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jackpal.androidterm
It's a new version, to Access your Android's built-in Linux command line shell. Unleash your inner geek!  >:D

Have a happy new year...  :clap:

These are far from revelations. Any newcomer to Linux, using Android phones would have (and has been) using these precise methods and apps for many, many years. It's fine that you're recommending them, but to talk aloof, assuming no one else has this "inside knowledge" is quite alarming. Let's be frank - it's not like you're the sole user of t'internet - this stuff is extremely basic knowledge which is years old.

Yes you're right, we all need to step outside and get a break (I live in blissful English countryside, so it's on my doorstep, and I do it daily); you're absolutely right, and it's easy to lose perspective.

You didn't need to ladle on the scoops of "look at how much knowledge I possess" - the stuff you reference is trivial in the IT world, but I thank you nevertheless..

Dear 'eti'...  I just want to clarify a few things!  :phew:
Firstly, I'm truly glad you live in the location you do, and get outside daily to enjoy it. We all need that !  :-+
However, to say I was "talking aloof", with "alarming inside knowledge", and I'm just ladling on scoops of
"look at how much knowledge I possess"... is as far from what/who I am/saying as you can get, my friend.  :palm:

I never postulate on this blog that I am highly knowledgeable in anything. In fact, quite the opposite!
(Mainly due to my age, loss of contemporary technical awareness, & vastly worsening medical conditions).
For example, if you look at the last line of my 2nd to last main paragraph, you will see I said...
"I know all this now, as I researched it, just out of interest. Not because our lives depend on it."

The POINT was, that I only just found that out, (before posting that), because I looked it up, because I was
interested, after you mentioned 'Java'. Although my life didn't depend on it, in the way you accuse people.  :(

And B.T.W...  I'm not Pro/Anti anything here. What I previously knew about 'Linux', I could have fitted on the
back of a Matchbox!!  However, other members here have enlightened/educated me a lot! (I'm trying).
My original post 'Topic' was initially just tongue-in-cheek reporting of the 'consoles' making a supercomputer.

Please continue to traverse outside daily, and count your blessings for being alive, while you can.  :-+

 

Online Ed.Kloonk

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2020, 12:23:06 am »
Focus your energy on the common enemy here, folks..

William H Gates.

 :)



 :popcorn:
 
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Offline george.b

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2020, 01:28:35 am »
The only Windows-only programs I can even think of that I still use are Vixen for controlling my Halloween display, Winamp as a quick audio player and Irfanview is an excellent photo viewer.

Even then, there's also Wine ;D
 

Offline Karel

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2020, 07:35:31 am »
The only Windows-only programs I can even think of that I still use are Vixen for controlling my Halloween display, Winamp as a quick audio player and Irfanview is an excellent photo viewer.

Even then, there's also Wine ;D (Attachment Link)

Audacious, a very nice winamp clone, can mimic winamp very well. In the settings select the "Refugee" skin".

 
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Offline george.b

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #75 on: January 24, 2020, 08:08:49 am »

Audacious, a very nice winamp clone, can mimic winamp very well. In the settings select the "Refugee" skin".

(Attachment Link)

 D'oh! I have xmms on my IRIX box, and I forgot about this :palm:
 

Online Ed.Kloonk

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #76 on: January 24, 2020, 08:18:28 am »

Audacious, a very nice winamp clone, can mimic winamp very well. In the settings select the "Refugee" skin".

(Attachment Link)

 D'oh! I have xmms on my IRIX box, and I forgot about this :palm:

I was able to compile the most recent release (2005) of the code for XMMS 1, about 18 months ago.    8)
 

Online rdl

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Re: U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!
« Reply #77 on: January 24, 2020, 10:23:19 am »
I used Winamp years ago, even made my own custom skin for it, but now VLC is all I use.
 


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