U.S. Air-Force loves LINUX !!

[GlennSprigg]

Maybe because they feel similarly to myself in that touchscreens on laptop and desktop computers are stupid. They got to watch microsoft push the concept relentlessly and fall flat on their face. Touch makes sense on a tablet, I will never buy a laptop with a touchscreen if I can help it and will disable touch if forced to have it. People putting finger smudges on my monitor is one of my biggest peeves.

I don't think it is just a 'Microsoft' thing...
Yes, with windows-10 looking like it does, I firmly believe that is aimed at the 'modern' TouchScreen era.
You & I, (others), may not like it, but the future IS touch screens & portable devices for 'engineers' etc on
site, with 'smart' links to the 'Cloud' etc.  But being 'old-school' I don't like it.
We are going back to the old original days of 'Dumb Terminals'.

A lot of 'modern' Laptops, not only have 'TouchScreens', but can be FOLDED in various ways now so as to
emulate 'Tablets', if one is used to moving back/forward to such devices.
I can understand the need for that, and my latest Laptop has that function. It's a great precursor!!   

[Karel]

We are going back to the old original days of 'Dumb Terminals'.

Can't wait to see an industrial grade EDA that runs in the cloud using a "dumb terminal" as a client...

[Karel]

But for everyday tasks and pretty pictures Bill's OS is just superior (Don't get upset, just my view).

In my experience, it's the Bill's OS user who gets upset when he/she asks for my help to fix his/her pc and I tell him/her I use Linux and don't want to touch their pc because I detest it...

[james_s]

I would have agreed up through Win7, possibly even 8 despite the horrid UI it was at least stable and could be worked around. Win10 is in a constant state of flux though, a perpetual beta with things changing and breaking with every forced update. I finally put Ubuntu on my mom's laptop a few years ago and it has just worked. It never changes so I don't have to try to teach her the new way of doing things every few months or find a new program to replace the one that was broken by an update or "helpfully" uninstalled because MS decided it was not compatible.

[Lord of nothing]

  I guess your Mom didnt do someso special stuff.
I use Software who basically work under Win and there is nothing to further.
Under Linux the must be create a package and so on. 
I stick with W7 how long its even possible.

[james_s]

She does what most non-techie people do, she accesses the internet, shops, does email, types up her newsletters and does the billing for her business. The operating system is irrelevant.

I still quite like Win7 and use it on my primary laptop but I have Linux on everything else at this point and it does most of what I need. There are only a very small number of things I still use that need Windows, and for historical reasons I am more adept at fixing Windows if something breaks but Win10 I don't really consider to be Windows anymore. It is changing and breaking in so many ways that I found it to be almost unusable.

[Lord of nothing]

and does the billing for her business. The operating system is irrelevant.

So when she run a Company you need to use Windows because the Software you mostly need to communicate with the Authorities just work under Win.

I dont know if a Billing Software even exist for a Linux System who fit in the requirements from the Austrian Authorities. You are required to send every Sale directly to them to avoid Manipulation afterwards.

[eti]

But for everyday tasks and pretty pictures Bill's OS is just superior (Don't get upset, just my view).

In my experience, it's the Bill's OS user who gets upset when he/she asks for my help to fix his/her pc and I tell him/her I use Linux and don't want to touch their pc because I detest it...

You ACTUALLY say that to people? It's binary code, nothing else. All this hippy dippy software "community" nonsense has turned people's minds to mush. It's just a dumb box of solder and chips. Do you like helping people? So help them,.and set your pet peeves and overthinking aside for their sake. Helping your friend overrides any obsession you may have over software choices.

[Nominal Animal]

Do you like helping people? So help them,.and set your pet peeves and overthinking aside for their sake. Helping your friend overrides any obsession you may have over software choices.

My sarcasm detector but the truth is, sometimes tough love is better than coddling.

As for myself, the reason I don't help with Windows issues is that I haven't used the thing in fifteen years; I would not know anything about the issues or their solutions.

[Zbig]

My sarcasm detector but the truth is, sometimes tough love is better than coddling.

As for myself, the reason I don't help with Windows issues is that I haven't used the thing in fifteen years; I would not know anything about the issues or their solutions.

Nope, no sarcasm there - the dude's serious. Both eti AND Karel in one thread, arguing each other, oh boy, oh boy! I'd love a collaborative video blog or at least a podcast by those two

[eti]

MacOS and iOS are already close relatives to Linux and Android is Linux. Outside of Microsoft, most of the tech industry and the vast majority of the internet back end runs on Linux. The only place that Linux is not absolutely dominant is the consumer and corporate desktop.

   

Android USES Linux (The Colonel [Sanders]) - apart from that, it is UTTER TRASH.

What are you? 12?

Android is linux based, are you saying that's not true or are you having difficulty with reading comprehension?

I'm not a fan of Android and don't use it myself but it is the most widely used consumer operating system by a wide margin. Currently on about 2.5 Billion devices it dwarfs all other consumer operating systems combined.

How is my age, in any way related to the fact that you said "Android is Linux", and then changed that to "Linux-based"? It's not even Linux-based, it's JAVA-based and just happens to USE Linux kernel, somehow - the marketing muppets use the "It runs on Linux" schtick to make it appear "cool" to nerds. They also push (as do many other tireseome bores) the whole "Open Source" bollocks - who CARES, so long as the phone works.

We didn't have all this obsessive, policital crap back when Nokia had the 3210/3310 etc - you bought a phone, got used to it and loved it, and weren't online ranting or raving about it like a complete sad sack loser.

Wow... You seem to get quite angry... Maybe step outside & smell the roses, and hear the birds!   
I'm sure that I, yourself, & others have made 'typos', or accidentally mis-phrased something, but take
a 'chill-pill' when you come back in from outside. People will, on a forum like this, talk about various tech
aspects of equip out of interest, whether they 'Need' to know it or not, as in the Android/Linux/Phone stuff. 

'Phrasing' aside, Android SmartPhones DO utilize a Linux Kernel, it does not supply a typical Front-End to
it, as per the typical various Linux distribution 'Builds' like Ubuntu etc. When you boot an Android device, the
Linux kernel loads just like it would on a Linux distribution. However, much of the other software is different.
The 'Android' variation to the front end is specifically designed to deal with the Touch Screens etc.

You mentioned Java....  Rather than running typical Linux applications, Android uses the Dalvik Virtual Machine
to essentially run applications written in Java. These applications are targeted at Android devices and the
application programming interfaces (APIs) Android provides rather than being targeted at Linux in general.
I know all this now, as I researched it, just out of interest. Not because our lives depend on it.   

P.S.  Out of interest, I found ref to an interesting App for Android phones!! It works without the phone being
'Rooted', but evidently has more power when it is. It's called Terminal Emulator for Android....
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jackpal.androidterm
It's a new version, to Access your Android's built-in Linux command line shell. Unleash your inner geek! 

Have a happy new year... 

These are far from revelations. Any newcomer to Linux, using Android phones would have (and has been) using these precise methods and apps for many, many years. It's fine that you're recommending them, but to talk aloof, assuming no one else has this "inside knowledge" is quite alarming. Let's be frank - it's not like you're the sole user of t'internet - this stuff is extremely basic knowledge which is years old.

Yes you're right, we all need to step outside and get a break (I live in blissful English countryside, so it's on my doorstep, and I do it daily); you're absolutely right, and it's easy to lose perspective.

You didn't need to ladle on the scoops of "look at how much knowledge I possess" - the stuff you reference is trivial in the IT world, but I thank you nevertheless..

[eti]

My sarcasm detector but the truth is, sometimes tough love is better than coddling.

As for myself, the reason I don't help with Windows issues is that I haven't used the thing in fifteen years; I would not know anything about the issues or their solutions.

Nope, no sarcasm there - the dude's serious. Both eti AND Karel in one thread, arguing each other, oh boy, oh boy! I'd love a collaborative video blog or at least a podcast by those two

You, my friend, are a beacon of light in a dark world; a shining example to many of how to ignore those having a bad day, week, month... or life, and rise above it all with the actions and words that could only come from years of experience... of sage wisdom.

Have a great week.

[Zbig]

You, my friend, are a beacon of light in a dark world; a shining example to many of how to ignore those having a bad day, week, month... or life, and rise above it all with the actions and words that could only come from years of experience... of sage wisdom.

Have a great week.

That's what she said. Thanks, have a good one yourself.

[borjam]

In my experience, it's the Bill's OS user who gets upset when he/she asks for my help to fix his/her pc and I tell him/her I use Linux and don't want to touch their pc because I detest it...

Indeed. I recommend my friends and family to get a Mac. When they don't because some guy at the store told them it's just a fashion thing and they call me for help, I tell them I am a hopeless ignorant and they must ask the ACM Turing Laureate at the nearby computer store.

My funniest computer illiterate friend who required assistance now and then is a Law professor. The typical call was "Sorry, I am trying to print and it doesn't work". So I told him "prepare a wine bottle!". I arrived to his home (500 m away from mine), plug the USB cable he kept forgetting about and enjoy a nice chat over good wine 

Paranormal problems requiring an hour or two of voodoo? None at all!

And no, the OS is not irrelevant especially for general users. I remember a friend, a surgeon, who wanted a computer for certain specific tasks:

- Editing photos from operations

- Writing papers for congresses

- Email

I told him to get a Mac. Two weeks later he called in horror, some malware had destroyed a lot of work. Of course he had got a PC because, well, Macs are not worth it and yada yada.

His final decision? He wouldn't use the PC for email because, well, it was dangerous. I suggested him to claim 30 % back of the computer price because it was entirely unsuitable for one of his original purposes.

A year later he got wiser, bought a Mac and he never looked back

And no, blaming a user of most malware incidents is like blaming a woman of a rape because she was dressed like...

[eti]

I think the whole "OS vs OS" is irrelevant. They're tools; one doesn't look at a spanner, whilst holding a screwdriver, and say "pah, stupid spanners, screwdrivers are way, wayyy better"

They're DIFFERENT TOOLS. It's mind boggling that such rhetoric needs reinforcing, but they're not pets or favourite flavours of cheese, they're specific TOOLS, and we don't have to get in silly squabbles nor "take sides".

I run Windows apps on windows, because it works best on Windows. Same applies for other platforms. Whether or not said OS is my "favourite" would never even enter my mind; how very idiotic a notion to want to argue over them.

People must, sadly, have empty lives to get so worked up and passionate over something so very meaningless.

[james_s]

Not really, it's much more like comparing two different brands of the same tool. They're not identical but they do roughly the same thing. Most of the software I use today is available on both platforms, a few other applications have similar equivalents, a few things are Windows only so I still have a Win7 machine and several versions of Windows in VMs. Not much these days though and not anything the average home computer user needs. Windows vs Linux as a tool analogy would be far more like comparing a Snap-On spanner with a cheap generic brand, except in an alternate universe where the cheap tool is more solidly constructed and durable albeit not suitable for some of the more specific niche applications.

Just as an example, I can easily show you a Windows and Linux PC side by side, each with the same wallpaper, running the Chrome and/or Firefox browser, Thunderbird email client, GIMP photo editor, Inkscape drawing, Libre Office, KiCAD EDA, Quartus II FPGA IDE, Audacity audio editor, etc all on identical laptops printing on the same printer.

So tell me how these are completely different tools? The only Windows-only programs I can even think of that I still use are Vixen for controlling my Halloween display, Winamp as a quick audio player and Irfanview is an excellent photo viewer.

Everything else is cross platform anyway and the difference is barely noticeable. Case in point, my mother texted me the other night asking if she should worry about the announcement that Windows 7 had reached end of support. I told her that she hasn't had Windows at all in over 3 years. She's not technical and hardly knows the difference except that Ubuntu works and I don't have to come by regularly to fix Windows. It runs all the same programs she was already using.

And yes I agree that it's very strange when people get so worked up and passionate about something that doesn't really matter, as I recall you getting extremely worked up and passionate about it recently, unless it was someone else who blew a gasket over mention of one mobile OS or another.

[eti]

Well, that's me told.   The Linux & FOSS fanclubs are clearly having a convention nearby...

Why don't I ever recommend niche OS' to the average home user? Because friends or relatives will say "Have you got <software name>" or "Do you have iTunes?" etc. Unless you have superhuman patience, or like to make life unnecessarily difficult for yourself by needing to be 24-7 tech support, you're going to offer a mainstream solution which 99.9% of consumers, friends of the family etc can relate to... unless this is about more about you being in control of the situation and being able to come to the rescue to showcase your Linux prowess (yes, these types ARE EVERYWHERE!)

Next time an aging relative wants to research their lineage and create a family tree file, or a friend lends them a disc or whatever... "Oh, I don't know if that'll work on my PC, I've got this thing called 'Ubuntu' "
For the very same reason, I never EVER push Android phones on anyone "of a certain age" just because I can use it okay (because I'm technically inclined, lest anyone ever lose sight of that crucial element of offering platforms to family - don't push your pet platform "just because") ... no, I strongly urge them to use an iOS device, because that's all they need and they're VERY simple, and EVERYONE can do tech support, even young kids.

[Nominal Animal]

For the very same reason, I never EVER push Android phones on anyone "of a certain age" just because I can use it okay (because I'm technically inclined, lest anyone ever lose sight of that crucial element of offering platforms to family - don't push your pet platform "just because") ... no, I strongly urge them to use an iOS device, because that's all they need and they're VERY simple, and EVERYONE can do tech support, even young kids.

Methinks you have a lifelong membership in the Apple fanclub, eh? 

The situation is reversed here in Finland (and I hear elsewhere in Europe, too): Android has 40% and iOS 60% of the market share on tablets in Finland; 74% and iOS 25% of the market share on phones.  Especially the kids are familiar with Android here, with iOS being somewhat rarer.

As an example, my mom (now 70), who till three years ago had no intention of ever using a computer, is now a pretty confident Android user.  Network settings still confuse her, and the Chromecast user interface for her TV isn't the friendliest (she already has terrestrial and satellite to deal with), but I hope to help her with those soonish, maybe with printed guide or something.

In the general sense, I do agree that helping others pick the device/OS based on their own usage patterns and availability of help is the way to go.

[james_s]

I have a collection of Android and iOS phones and tablets that have accumulated, my iPhone is the only Apple device I actually paid for, the others are just random old devices people gave me due to various faults that I fixed. I find that they're both pretty similar really, iOS is superior in some respects while Android has other advantages. There are things about both that I absolutely loathe but that's a matter of choosing which I hate less more so than which I like better. The fact that several of my international friends have iPhones and I can text them for free using the proprietary iMessage format is the main thing that has kept me considering an iPhone going forward. It used to be the main reason was that the iPhone was available in a nice small size while all the decent Android phones were absurdly gigantic but now it seems like all phones are gigantic. I just hope my iPhone SE lasts until this ridiculous obsession with edge to edge screens and the resulting stupid notches and holes in the display for the front facing camera I have never once used passes because I refuse to buy one of those. I don't understand why some think those useless little ears flanking a notch is better than just having a small straight bezel at the top.

[james_s]

Why don't I ever recommend niche OS' to the average home user? Because friends or relatives will say "Have you got <software name>" or "Do you have iTunes?" etc. Unless you have superhuman patience, or like to make life unnecessarily difficult for yourself by needing to be 24-7 tech support, you're going to offer a mainstream solution which 99.9% of consumers, friends of the family etc can relate to... unless this is about more about you being in control of the situation and being able to come to the rescue to showcase your Linux prowess (yes, these types ARE EVERYWHERE!)

Well after 3 years or so that has not been an issue over here yet, I got sick of cleaning up malware initially, and then I got sick of going over there constantly to log in as an admin and install things my mom needed once I locked it down so she couldn't infect it constantly. Then I put Ubuntu on there and I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to fix something. I dunno what to tell you, maybe my mom's needs are less specific than yours? Or maybe it's the fact that I know how to use Linux about as well as I know how to use Windows and you don't? I don't know, but it is irrelevant how common it is in the wild when I'm the only techie in the family, I'm going to get the tech support call no matter what. You support what you know how to support, I'll support what I'm comfortable supporting.

You're welcome to think it's me showing off if that's what makes you happy, but I assure you that in reality it's the fact that I'm very busy and don't want to be fixing her computer every time I visit. I have not had to play linux hacker at all, I set it up once, I installed the stuff she needed and I've hardly touched it since, I'm not sure I've ever even opened up a command line on that laptop, it's not 2005 anymore. I get the feeling that you have not touched a Linux PC in at least a decade, if you had, you'd realize your arguments don't really make any sense, it's pretty clear that it's a religious debate. Given I spend roughly equal time in both OS's, (as well as the Mac I use at work) and spent the first decade of my career working at Microsoft I'd say I'm a tad more qualified to comment and compare than someone who uses only one and bashes the one they don't know without even trying it, while slipping in passive-aggressive insults and insinuations.

[eti]

Why don't I ever recommend niche OS' to the average home user? Because friends or relatives will say "Have you got <software name>" or "Do you have iTunes?" etc. Unless you have superhuman patience, or like to make life unnecessarily difficult for yourself by needing to be 24-7 tech support, you're going to offer a mainstream solution which 99.9% of consumers, friends of the family etc can relate to... unless this is about more about you being in control of the situation and being able to come to the rescue to showcase your Linux prowess (yes, these types ARE EVERYWHERE!)

Well after 3 years or so that has not been an issue over here yet, I got sick of cleaning up malware initially, and then I got sick of going over there constantly to log in as an admin and install things my mom needed once I locked it down so she couldn't infect it constantly. Then I put Ubuntu on there and I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to fix something. I dunno what to tell you, maybe my mom's needs are less specific than yours? Or maybe it's the fact that I know how to use Linux about as well as I know how to use Windows and you don't? I don't know, but it is irrelevant how common it is in the wild when I'm the only techie in the family, I'm going to get the tech support call no matter what. You support what you know how to support, I'll support what I'm comfortable supporting.

You're welcome to think it's me showing off if that's what makes you happy, but I assure you that in reality it's the fact that I'm very busy and don't want to be fixing her computer every time I visit. I have not had to play linux hacker at all, I set it up once, I installed the stuff she needed and I've hardly touched it since, I'm not sure I've ever even opened up a command line on that laptop, it's not 2005 anymore. I get the feeling that you have not touched a Linux PC in at least a decade, if you had, you'd realize your arguments don't really make any sense, it's pretty clear that it's a religious debate. Given I spend roughly equal time in both OS's, (as well as the Mac I use at work) and spent the first decade of my career working at Microsoft I'd say I'm a tad more qualified to comment and compare than someone who uses only one and bashes the one they don't know without even trying it, while slipping in passive-aggressive insults and insinuations.

I use Linux all day every day, and have done since 2003. I use it all the time, however, I would never install it on a PC used by someone needing support, and unfamiliar with it. That's my personal choice. I've used more distros than I can count (I have a HUGE folder of DVDs burnt in the early 00s, from SuSE to Slax, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, all the <*>untus, countless piles of old discs, and 5 raspberry Pis from model 2 to the lastest 4, one of which is in full time use. You see, this is where internet strangers slip up (me included, I am not having a dig at you) - we don't know one another - I am extremely skilled and adept with Linux, but you wouldn't be expected to know that, and that's cool. It's BECAUSE I know how much of a mess people can and DO get in, when they're in an unfamiliar environment, that I choose not to inflict that on them, and that is my own choice. I apologise, and am very sorry, if I came across as cocky - no one wants to hear that.

I have nothing to "prove" to anyone online, least of all strangers, except to prove that I am not a deliberately annoying or a rude person, in cases like this where I seem to have been - I am sorry -  so I shall bow out of this topic now. Thanks.

Take it easy.

[GlennSprigg]

MacOS and iOS are already close relatives to Linux and Android is Linux. Outside of Microsoft, most of the tech industry and the vast majority of the internet back end runs on Linux. The only place that Linux is not absolutely dominant is the consumer and corporate desktop.

   

Android USES Linux (The Colonel [Sanders]) - apart from that, it is UTTER TRASH.

What are you? 12?

Android is linux based, are you saying that's not true or are you having difficulty with reading comprehension?

I'm not a fan of Android and don't use it myself but it is the most widely used consumer operating system by a wide margin. Currently on about 2.5 Billion devices it dwarfs all other consumer operating systems combined.

How is my age, in any way related to the fact that you said "Android is Linux", and then changed that to "Linux-based"? It's not even Linux-based, it's JAVA-based and just happens to USE Linux kernel, somehow - the marketing muppets use the "It runs on Linux" schtick to make it appear "cool" to nerds. They also push (as do many other tireseome bores) the whole "Open Source" bollocks - who CARES, so long as the phone works.

We didn't have all this obsessive, policital crap back when Nokia had the 3210/3310 etc - you bought a phone, got used to it and loved it, and weren't online ranting or raving about it like a complete sad sack loser.

Wow... You seem to get quite angry... Maybe step outside & smell the roses, and hear the birds!   
I'm sure that I, yourself, & others have made 'typos', or accidentally mis-phrased something, but take
a 'chill-pill' when you come back in from outside. People will, on a forum like this, talk about various tech
aspects of equip out of interest, whether they 'Need' to know it or not, as in the Android/Linux/Phone stuff. 

'Phrasing' aside, Android SmartPhones DO utilize a Linux Kernel, it does not supply a typical Front-End to
it, as per the typical various Linux distribution 'Builds' like Ubuntu etc. When you boot an Android device, the
Linux kernel loads just like it would on a Linux distribution. However, much of the other software is different.
The 'Android' variation to the front end is specifically designed to deal with the Touch Screens etc.

You mentioned Java....  Rather than running typical Linux applications, Android uses the Dalvik Virtual Machine
to essentially run applications written in Java. These applications are targeted at Android devices and the
application programming interfaces (APIs) Android provides rather than being targeted at Linux in general.
I know all this now, as I researched it, just out of interest. Not because our lives depend on it.   

P.S.  Out of interest, I found ref to an interesting App for Android phones!! It works without the phone being
'Rooted', but evidently has more power when it is. It's called Terminal Emulator for Android....
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jackpal.androidterm
It's a new version, to Access your Android's built-in Linux command line shell. Unleash your inner geek! 

Have a happy new year... 

These are far from revelations. Any newcomer to Linux, using Android phones would have (and has been) using these precise methods and apps for many, many years. It's fine that you're recommending them, but to talk aloof, assuming no one else has this "inside knowledge" is quite alarming. Let's be frank - it's not like you're the sole user of t'internet - this stuff is extremely basic knowledge which is years old.

Yes you're right, we all need to step outside and get a break (I live in blissful English countryside, so it's on my doorstep, and I do it daily); you're absolutely right, and it's easy to lose perspective.

You didn't need to ladle on the scoops of "look at how much knowledge I possess" - the stuff you reference is trivial in the IT world, but I thank you nevertheless..

Dear 'eti'...  I just want to clarify a few things! 
Firstly, I'm truly glad you live in the location you do, and get outside daily to enjoy it. We all need that ! 
However, to say I was "talking aloof", with "alarming inside knowledge", and I'm just ladling on scoops of
"look at how much knowledge I possess"... is as far from what/who I am/saying as you can get, my friend. 

I never postulate on this blog that I am highly knowledgeable in anything. In fact, quite the opposite!
(Mainly due to my age, loss of contemporary technical awareness, & vastly worsening medical conditions).
For example, if you look at the last line of my 2nd to last main paragraph, you will see I said...
"I know all this now, as I researched it, just out of interest. Not because our lives depend on it."

The POINT was, that I only just found that out, (before posting that), because I looked it up, because I was
interested, after you mentioned 'Java'. Although my life didn't depend on it, in the way you accuse people. 

And B.T.W...  I'm not Pro/Anti anything here. What I previously knew about 'Linux', I could have fitted on the
back of a Matchbox!!  However, other members here have enlightened/educated me a lot! (I'm trying).
My original post 'Topic' was initially just tongue-in-cheek reporting of the 'consoles' making a supercomputer.

Please continue to traverse outside daily, and count your blessings for being alive, while you can. 

[Ed.Kloonk]

Focus your energy on the common enemy here, folks..

William H Gates.

 



 

[george.b]

The only Windows-only programs I can even think of that I still use are Vixen for controlling my Halloween display, Winamp as a quick audio player and Irfanview is an excellent photo viewer.

Even then, there's also Wine

[Karel]

The only Windows-only programs I can even think of that I still use are Vixen for controlling my Halloween display, Winamp as a quick audio player and Irfanview is an excellent photo viewer.

Even then, there's also Wine (Attachment Link)

Audacious, a very nice winamp clone, can mimic winamp very well. In the settings select the "Refugee" skin".