Author Topic: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?  (Read 15266 times)

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Offline tooki

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #100 on: June 01, 2022, 05:07:34 pm »
My comment on an older post:
Sometime around 1980, my local supermarket installed new electronic scales at the deli counter that read out in decimal pounds (to two decimal places).
I would normally buy a pound of sliced meat to make five lunches per week, but that week I would be out of town for two days.
I asked the young lady for "six tenths of a pound".  No response.
I then asked her for "zero point six pounds".  No response.
Repeat:  "zero point six pounds, like it reads out on the scale".  No response.
Finally, I asked her for "9.5 ounces":  She went to the back room where there was a conversion table posted, and finally gave me what I needed.
Oy vey...

I mean, what did the conversion table tell her that you didn't already?!?
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #101 on: June 01, 2022, 05:09:14 pm »
My comment on an older post:
Sometime around 1980, my local supermarket installed new electronic scales at the deli counter that read out in decimal pounds (to two decimal places).
I would normally buy a pound of sliced meat to make five lunches per week, but that week I would be out of town for two days.
I asked the young lady for "six tenths of a pound".  No response.
I then asked her for "zero point six pounds".  No response.
Repeat:  "zero point six pounds, like it reads out on the scale".  No response.
Finally, I asked her for "9.5 ounces":  She went to the back room where there was a conversion table posted, and finally gave me what I needed.
Oy vey...

I mean, what did the conversion table tell her that you didn't already?!?

I assume it showed an explicit numerical expression.  She had not been trained in what the new machine's display meant, and could not relate it to my careful spoken English.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #102 on: June 01, 2022, 05:15:14 pm »
I can't say I have a particular objection to a re-normalisation of imperial units in day-to-day useage, so long as they'll be kind when it comes to cost-to-weight comparisons... asking how many £/lb or lb/£ could get tedious.

I do. Most people are poor at arithmetic in bases 3, 4, 8, 12, 14, 16, 20, 22, 112 etc etc etc. And that's even assuming they will know which base to use.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline tooki

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #103 on: June 01, 2022, 05:26:25 pm »
I mean, what did the conversion table tell her that you didn't already?!?

I assume it showed an explicit numerical expression.  She had not been trained in what the new machine's display meant, and could not relate it to my careful spoken English.
Oh my. I would question whether anyone who can't convert a spoken "zero point 6" to 0.6 in their head should be allowed anywhere near food, money, or anything else of consequence!!
 

Online Zero999

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #104 on: June 01, 2022, 05:38:42 pm »
I mean, what did the conversion table tell her that you didn't already?!?

I assume it showed an explicit numerical expression.  She had not been trained in what the new machine's display meant, and could not relate it to my careful spoken English.
Oh my. I would question whether anyone who can't convert a spoken "zero point 6" to 0.6 in their head should be allowed anywhere near food, money, or anything else of consequence!!
Grocery store staff are often not the brightest, especially those who have worked there full time for a long time.

Here in the USA I do like being able to ask for "half a pound" of something at the deli counter. I never could get used to "quarter of a kilogram" or "250 grams".

If you went to Tesco and asked for "a quarter of the farmhouse cheddar" would that automatically be understood as 250 g these days?

My comment on an older post:
Sometime around 1980, my local supermarket installed new electronic scales at the deli counter that read out in decimal pounds (to two decimal places).
I would normally buy a pound of sliced meat to make five lunches per week, but that week I would be out of town for two days.
I asked the young lady for "six tenths of a pound".  No response.
I then asked her for "zero point six pounds".  No response.
Repeat:  "zero point six pounds, like it reads out on the scale".  No response.
Finally, I asked her for "9.5 ounces":  She went to the back room where there was a conversion table posted, and finally gave me what I needed.
There was an older lady there with a German accent, and I joked with her that it was just like the Olympics:  "Null Komma sechs".
Decimal imperial units are quite common, but I've not known a scale like that. If it was for weighing large objects, up to hundreds of pounds that would be fair enough. It would make more sense to just use ounces. I have some kitchen scales which a resolution of 0.05oz, when set to ounces. I normally have it set to grams, which is slightly more precision, although I imagine it doesn't make any difference, since 0.05oz is probably the limit to its repeatability.
 
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Online coppice

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #105 on: June 01, 2022, 05:46:13 pm »
Oh my. I would question whether anyone who can't convert a spoken "zero point 6" to 0.6 in their head should be allowed anywhere near food, money, or anything else of consequence!!
A considerable percentage of the population struggles massively with simple decimal fractions. You'll find plenty of people in well paid middle class jobs who struggle with equating zero point six to 0.6
 

Online JohanH

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #106 on: June 01, 2022, 05:50:09 pm »
Now they only have to go all the way and create a bill to square the circle at a ratio of 32 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill

And the horsepower hour electricity bills...
 

Offline bd139

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #107 on: June 01, 2022, 05:51:39 pm »
Oh my. I would question whether anyone who can't convert a spoken "zero point 6" to 0.6 in their head should be allowed anywhere near food, money, or anything else of consequence!!
A considerable percentage of the population struggles massively with simple decimal fractions. You'll find plenty of people in well paid middle class jobs who struggle with equating zero point six to 0.6

I work in fintech. I’ve met actuaries who have trouble with simple mathematics. If you don’t use it, you lose it.
 

Online IanB

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #108 on: June 01, 2022, 05:53:57 pm »
Decimal imperial units are quite common, but I've not known a scale like that. If it was for weighing large objects, up to hundreds of pounds that would be fair enough. It would make more sense to just use ounces. I have some kitchen scales which a resolution of 0.05oz, when set to ounces. I normally have it set to grams, which is slightly more precision, although I imagine it doesn't make any difference, since 0.05oz is probably the limit to its repeatability.

All the deli counters I use here have a scale that weighs and prices in decimal pounds. Aint nobody got time to program point of sale devices in pounds and ounces. It will compute "0.53 lb at $8.99/lb is $4.76"

If you want 0.6 lb when ordering, you can just say "a bit over half a pound", or "can you add another couple of slices to that?"
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #109 on: June 01, 2022, 06:10:21 pm »
Oh my. I would question whether anyone who can't convert a spoken "zero point 6" to 0.6 in their head should be allowed anywhere near food, money, or anything else of consequence!!
A considerable percentage of the population struggles massively with simple decimal fractions. You'll find plenty of people in well paid middle class jobs who struggle with equating zero point six to 0.6

Yep.
A discussion about that: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-mathematical-illiteracy-socially-acceptable
 

Online Zero999

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #110 on: June 01, 2022, 06:37:23 pm »
Decimal imperial units are quite common, but I've not known a scale like that. If it was for weighing large objects, up to hundreds of pounds that would be fair enough. It would make more sense to just use ounces. I have some kitchen scales which a resolution of 0.05oz, when set to ounces. I normally have it set to grams, which is slightly more precision, although I imagine it doesn't make any difference, since 0.05oz is probably the limit to its repeatability.

All the deli counters I use here have a scale that weighs and prices in decimal pounds. Aint nobody got time to program point of sale devices in pounds and ounces. It will compute "0.53 lb at $8.99/lb is $4.76"

If you want 0.6 lb when ordering, you can just say "a bit over half a pound", or "can you add another couple of slices to that?"
I must be an American thing. It's such an easy thing to program. My kitchen scales can even be set for pounds and ounces, although the resolution drops from 0.05oz to 0.1oz on the pounds setting, because the display doesn't have room for the extra decimal place.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #111 on: June 01, 2022, 06:49:13 pm »
Oh my. I would question whether anyone who can't convert a spoken "zero point 6" to 0.6 in their head should be allowed anywhere near food, money, or anything else of consequence!!
A considerable percentage of the population struggles massively with simple decimal fractions. You'll find plenty of people in well paid middle class jobs who struggle with equating zero point six to 0.6
:::sigh::: I know. It just baffles me.

And that even though I've listened to the entirety of the Verizon Math spectacle.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #112 on: June 01, 2022, 06:51:33 pm »
I must be an American thing. It's such an easy thing to program. My kitchen scales can even be set for pounds and ounces, although the resolution drops from 0.05oz to 0.1oz on the pounds setting, because the display doesn't have room for the extra decimal place.
I could swear I've seen digital point of sale scales in lbs and oz in USA. I'd be shocked if it's not something that can be set in software.
 

Online IanB

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #113 on: June 01, 2022, 07:09:14 pm »
I must be an American thing. It's such an easy thing to program. My kitchen scales can even be set for pounds and ounces, although the resolution drops from 0.05oz to 0.1oz on the pounds setting, because the display doesn't have room for the extra decimal place.

I don't think it's entirely about programming. It would be so confusing. Suppose your receipt said this: "0 lb 8.5 oz at $8.99/lb thus $4.76"

Can you imagine the confusion? How could you ever check whether you had been charged the correct amount without a calculator?

The reality is that America is decimal, and has been for quite some time.

In engineering, weights are in pounds (lb), thousands of pounds (Mlb), or millions of pounds (MMlb).

Distances are in feet, hundreds of feet, or thousands of feet. Road signs will say "500 ft" when giving a distance to a hazard.

Also in engineering, measurements are in inches and thousandths of an inch (mils). The dimension of a part will be given as 2.351 inches. Pins on ICs or headers are 0.1 inches apart.

It makes sense. Decimal is the only sensible way to make measurements and do calculations.
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #114 on: June 01, 2022, 07:17:49 pm »
Obviously, there's no technical reason why the scale could not read in lb and oz, but I have not seen a grocery-store scale in the US with a digital readout other than decimal.
As mentioned above, this works well with decimal currency to give a decimal price.
Small electronic scales from lab supply companies can be set to all kinds of units, including taels, but usually have a programmable choice of g, kg, lb, lb:oz, or oz in the US.
Here is an example of a very flexible small unit (see last page for full list of units):  https://dmx.ohaus.com/WorkArea/showcontent.aspx?id=4294974299
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 07:57:35 pm by TimFox »
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #115 on: June 01, 2022, 10:48:45 pm »
Quote
Decimal is the only sensible way to make measurements and do calculations

Pity no-one told computers and electronics.
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #116 on: June 01, 2022, 10:50:13 pm »
I asked the young lady for "six tenths of a pound".  No response.
I then asked her for "zero point six pounds".  No response.
Repeat:  "zero point six pounds, like it reads out on the scale".  No response.

They were waiting for you to call it what it is, 600 millipounds.
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Offline Ian.M

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #117 on: June 01, 2022, 11:10:58 pm »
I don't think it's entirely about programming. It would be so confusing. Suppose your receipt said this: "0 lb 8.5 oz at $8.99/lb thus $4.76"

Can you imagine the confusion? How could you ever check whether you had been charged the correct amount without a calculator?
Then you've failed maths, and cant handle even basic mental arithmetic.  8 oz is half a pound, rounding to $9/lb that's $4.50
The additional half ounce is near enough 1/30 lb, so $0.30
TOTAL: $4.80 which is within a nickel of the actual price.
It took me far far longer to type this than to do the math, in my head.

If you don't math, and don't own a smartfone with a calculator app, how do you manage to check you aren't being ripped off for state and city sales taxes? 

Also, as you aren't qualified for any job more technical than asking "Would you like fries with that?" or pushing an idiot stick, and don't math, odds are your boss is ripping you off something rotten by wage theft!
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 11:18:01 pm by Ian.M »
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #118 on: June 02, 2022, 08:32:50 am »
I asked the young lady for "six tenths of a pound".  No response.
I then asked her for "zero point six pounds".  No response.
Repeat:  "zero point six pounds, like it reads out on the scale".  No response.

They were waiting for you to call it what it is, 600 millipounds.

LOL. I’m so going to ask for 250,000 milligrams of cheddar next time I’m in the supermarket.
 
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Online Zero999

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #119 on: June 02, 2022, 09:14:21 am »
I must be an American thing. It's such an easy thing to program. My kitchen scales can even be set for pounds and ounces, although the resolution drops from 0.05oz to 0.1oz on the pounds setting, because the display doesn't have room for the extra decimal place.

I don't think it's entirely about programming. It would be so confusing. Suppose your receipt said this: "0 lb 8.5 oz at $8.99/lb thus $4.76"

Can you imagine the confusion? How could you ever check whether you had been charged the correct amount without a calculator?

The reality is that America is decimal, and has been for quite some time.

In engineering, weights are in pounds (lb), thousands of pounds (Mlb), or millions of pounds (MMlb).

Distances are in feet, hundreds of feet, or thousands of feet. Road signs will say "500 ft" when giving a distance to a hazard.

Also in engineering, measurements are in inches and thousandths of an inch (mils). The dimension of a part will be given as 2.351 inches. Pins on ICs or headers are 0.1 inches apart.

It makes sense. Decimal is the only sensible way to make measurements and do calculations.
Why not use ounces? I personally fine 1.25lb more confusing than 1lb 4oz or even 20oz. I'm pretty sure things were sold in pounds, as well as ounces before the UK went metric.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #120 on: June 02, 2022, 11:13:46 am »
I must be an American thing. It's such an easy thing to program. My kitchen scales can even be set for pounds and ounces, although the resolution drops from 0.05oz to 0.1oz on the pounds setting, because the display doesn't have room for the extra decimal place.

I don't think it's entirely about programming. It would be so confusing. Suppose your receipt said this: "0 lb 8.5 oz at $8.99/lb thus $4.76"

Can you imagine the confusion? How could you ever check whether you had been charged the correct amount without a calculator?

The reality is that America is decimal, and has been for quite some time.

In engineering, weights are in pounds (lb), thousands of pounds (Mlb), or millions of pounds (MMlb).

Distances are in feet, hundreds of feet, or thousands of feet. Road signs will say "500 ft" when giving a distance to a hazard.

Also in engineering, measurements are in inches and thousandths of an inch (mils). The dimension of a part will be given as 2.351 inches. Pins on ICs or headers are 0.1 inches apart.

It makes sense. Decimal is the only sensible way to make measurements and do calculations.
Why not use ounces? I personally fine 1.25lb more confusing than 1lb 4oz or even 20oz. I'm pretty sure things were sold in pounds, as well as ounces before the UK went metric.

Because I always forget whether I should be using base 14 or base 16 arithmetic.

Currency decimalisation in 1971 was a wonderful thing. I remember having to do far too many LSD[1] calculations in school arithmetic lessons. Life's too short for that crap.

It is rumoured that our minister for Top Hats and Fob Watches (Jacob Rees-Mogg, may he rot in hell) is going to insist on using Roman numbers for dates. It is unclear whether or not that implies reverting the Julian calendar so we can reclaim our 10 days.

[1]Librae Solidi Denarius, i.e. pounds shillings and pence. But the "alternative" meaning is equally valid.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2022, 11:16:40 am by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline f4eru

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #121 on: June 02, 2022, 11:19:07 am »
In engineering, weights are in pounds (lb), thousands of pounds (Mlb), or millions of pounds (MMlb).
Hmm, nope.
In Engineering, weights are in Newton (N), lengths are in meters (m)
Even in the USA.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2022, 11:21:35 am by f4eru »
 

Offline bd139

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #122 on: June 02, 2022, 11:20:43 am »
In engineering, weights are in pounds (lb), thousands of pounds (Mlb), or millions of pounds (MMlb).
Hmm, nope.
In Engineering, weights are in N. (even in the USA).

Apart from the Mars Climate Orbiter…
 

Offline f4eru

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #123 on: June 02, 2022, 11:23:30 am »
Yeah, they had one supplier using customary units for space distances.
but is corrected now, amateurs at the suppliers are no more, and NASA was metric from the start.
 
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Online Zero999

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Re: UK back to "imperial" measurements ?
« Reply #124 on: June 02, 2022, 11:56:56 am »
I must be an American thing. It's such an easy thing to program. My kitchen scales can even be set for pounds and ounces, although the resolution drops from 0.05oz to 0.1oz on the pounds setting, because the display doesn't have room for the extra decimal place.

I don't think it's entirely about programming. It would be so confusing. Suppose your receipt said this: "0 lb 8.5 oz at $8.99/lb thus $4.76"

Can you imagine the confusion? How could you ever check whether you had been charged the correct amount without a calculator?

The reality is that America is decimal, and has been for quite some time.

In engineering, weights are in pounds (lb), thousands of pounds (Mlb), or millions of pounds (MMlb).

Distances are in feet, hundreds of feet, or thousands of feet. Road signs will say "500 ft" when giving a distance to a hazard.

Also in engineering, measurements are in inches and thousandths of an inch (mils). The dimension of a part will be given as 2.351 inches. Pins on ICs or headers are 0.1 inches apart.

It makes sense. Decimal is the only sensible way to make measurements and do calculations.
Why not use ounces? I personally fine 1.25lb more confusing than 1lb 4oz or even 20oz. I'm pretty sure things were sold in pounds, as well as ounces before the UK went metric.

Because I always forget whether I should be using base 14 or base 16 arithmetic.
Then why not simply go metric instead of using decimal imperial, which is more confusing?
 


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