General > General Technical Chat

UK back to "imperial" measurements ?

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TimFox:

--- Quote from: eti on June 05, 2022, 09:51:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: BravoV on May 30, 2022, 07:19:29 am ---Source -> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-bids-jubilee-boost-27090524

Quotes :

... BoJo is planning to announce that imperial measurements will be revived to mark the Queen's Platinum Jubilee...

... the move represents a victory for 'metric martyrs' it is a largely symbolic one to address gripes about EU interference in traditional English life. ...  ???

--- End quote ---

Oh "THE MIRROR"? Well in that case it MUST be true...  :palm: The cheapest brand of novelty printed toilet roll.

--- End quote ---


I do remember this from a member of HM government:  https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/jacob-reesmogg-orders-staff-to-use-imperial-measures-and-double-spacing-in-leaked-memo
and the colourful version from the Financial Times:  https://www.ft.com/content/e0556f76-afc6-11e9-8030-530adfa879c2
I don't disagree with his attempt to ban the usage "to meet with", however.

TimFox:

--- Quote from: bd139 on June 05, 2022, 09:55:36 pm ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on June 05, 2022, 09:50:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: bd139 on June 05, 2022, 09:48:45 pm ---Kg was never used as a force. Force is N (newtons)

--- End quote ---

You have never seen a pressure gauge calibrated in kg/cm2 or kgf/cm2?
Do they only export those gauges to the US?

--- End quote ---

That’s a pressure not a force. And it should be pascals.

--- End quote ---

Yes, but pressure is a measurement of force per unit area.
Before the pascal was defined, the proper measurement in mks units was N/m2, or dyne/cm2 in cgs.
1 Pa = 1 N/m2.

tooki:

--- Quote from: TimFox on June 05, 2022, 09:50:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: bd139 on June 05, 2022, 09:48:45 pm ---Kg was never used as a force. Force is N (newtons)

--- End quote ---

You have never seen a pressure gauge calibrated in kg/cm2 or kgf/cm2?
Do they only export those gauges to the US?

--- End quote ---
Probably. At least in Europe, it’s really not used any more. Germany apparently outlawed it in 1978.

IanB:

--- Quote from: rfclown on June 05, 2022, 09:33:33 pm ---What I never understood was kg, which is mass, but used as force (weight). Why was that done wrong? If you're going to make us switch to different units, don't make it wrong units. At least in our goofy units we didn't weigh is slugs. When I see pressure gauges with kg/cm2 scales I want to throw them across the room. I guess we can't expect to make people to change when they've done the wrong thing too long. And then those same people throw stones at those who are using old goofy units.

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: TimFox on June 05, 2022, 09:50:00 pm ---Yes, in metric countries engineers often (incorrectly) express force in "kgf" instead of Newtons.
In US customary units, the "lb av" is often used (incorrectly) as a unit of mass, although technically it should be a unit of force and weight.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: bd139 on June 05, 2022, 09:48:45 pm ---Kg was never used as a force. Force is N (newtons)

--- End quote ---

Oh boy  :palm:

Weights and measures is a convention. What is correct depends on your local culture and custom. To argue otherwise is like arguing that green beans are fruits and it is wrong for people to call them vegetables. Why would anyone give you the time of day?

So yes, the kilogram can be a unit of force, just like the pound. Hence the customary pressure unit of psi -- pounds (force) per square inch. Or the force unit of kip used by structural engineers -- kilo-pounds. Likewise, kg/cm2 is a common unit of pressure (somewhat universal in Japan and other parts of Asia, for example).

Would you go to Germany and insist they follow American customs because you are American and you think they should do things your way? I would hope not.

The pound, and the kilogram, obviously, are also used as units of mass. The key point being "used as". Thus, in engineering, you will find flows measured in MMlb/day (millions of pounds per day), and in other parts of the world you may find such flows measured in kt/day (thousands of metric tons per day).

Another foolish thing is arguing the difference between mass and weight. The world of commerce would fall apart if this were ever an issue. Are you going to question your 5 lb bag of rice because it might not contain 5 lb (mass) of rice?

Speak the language of the people you are dealing with and everything will be smooth. Speak a different language and they will look at you funny.

TimFox:
I explained the legal meaning of a 5 lb bag of rice in a post above (reply 141).
In careful scientific and engineering usage, the kg is an SI unit of mass, the N is an SI unit of force or weight, and the lb av is a customary unit of force or weight.
What is correct is defined by statute.
What is common may be defined by custom.

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