Poll

So, what you (UK) guys think? Exit or not to exit?

YES, please get me out of there (I'm UK) [go]
41 (19.5%)
Hell no, we are one big (happy) family! (I'm UK) [stay]
42 (20%)
OMG, let them Go! [go]
63 (30%)
I love the UK, they are family! [stay]
64 (30.5%)

Total Members Voted: 208

Voting closed: July 10, 2016, 10:29:34 am

Author Topic: UK forum members, BREXIT?  (Read 358992 times)

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Offline rch

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1625 on: July 04, 2016, 10:21:45 pm »
I'm interested in what is going to happen in the next few years, as regards the EU. If any other significant player EU member countries also end up leaving. I think things will be far more likely to change, as regards the EU.

The 27 are motivated to crucify the UK, "pour encourager les autres" - i.e. let their population see that leaving is worse than staying.

Oh, that will be the perfect  illustration why the UK is much better out of this camp 8) .

Prove that assertion.

This isn't a game, despite what some politicians evidently believe.

I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way  ;) .

Having been through the Berlin Wall several times, and having had family friends that crawled under the Iron Curtain to escape, your statement is completely unbelievable.

Out of curiosity - what exactly about my statement you find "completely unbelievable"? Or just all of it? It is accurate to the best of my (first-hand) knowledge. 

Cheers

Alex


As another unbeliever, the bit I didn't believe was "Now EU starts to smell that way".
 

Offline Alex Nikitin

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1626 on: July 04, 2016, 10:46:19 pm »
I'm interested in what is going to happen in the next few years, as regards the EU. If any other significant player EU member countries also end up leaving. I think things will be far more likely to change, as regards the EU.

The 27 are motivated to crucify the UK, "pour encourager les autres" - i.e. let their population see that leaving is worse than staying.

Oh, that will be the perfect  illustration why the UK is much better out of this camp 8) .

Prove that assertion.

This isn't a game, despite what some politicians evidently believe.

I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way  ;) .

Having been through the Berlin Wall several times, and having had family friends that crawled under the Iron Curtain to escape, your statement is completely unbelievable.

Out of curiosity - what exactly about my statement you find "completely unbelievable"? Or just all of it? It is accurate to the best of my (first-hand) knowledge. 

Cheers

Alex


As another unbeliever, the bit I didn't believe was "Now EU starts to smell that way".

Hmm, any club where to join costs a pound and to leave - two pounds, smells just wrong to me. If EU officials consider ways to make the UK exit as difficult as possible (all for the common good of other members, obviously), that smells exactly as the Soviet type of politics. I sincerely hope that the EU would not use this kind of approach in practice, however we all will see what course will be taken soon enough.

Cheers

Alex
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1627 on: July 04, 2016, 11:43:40 pm »
I'm interested in what is going to happen in the next few years, as regards the EU. If any other significant player EU member countries also end up leaving. I think things will be far more likely to change, as regards the EU.

The 27 are motivated to crucify the UK, "pour encourager les autres" - i.e. let their population see that leaving is worse than staying.

Oh, that will be the perfect  illustration why the UK is much better out of this camp 8) .

Prove that assertion.

This isn't a game, despite what some politicians evidently believe.

I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way  ;) .

Having been through the Berlin Wall several times, and having had family friends that crawled under the Iron Curtain to escape, your statement is completely unbelievable.

Out of curiosity - what exactly about my statement you find "completely unbelievable"? Or just all of it? It is accurate to the best of my (first-hand) knowledge. 

All of your statement, of course.

I'll change my mind if you can demonstrate the existence of forced labour camps or of people being machine gunned for trying to leave. Or anything remotely comparable, for that matter.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1628 on: July 04, 2016, 11:49:57 pm »
Welcome to the 1930s, in the Weimar Republic.
Why? Did you loose a long war and were blead dry by the winning countries?
Don't think so. Business will get back as usual but a bit less probably.

The Weimar Republic was rejected and replaced by you-know-who because the people no longer believed in the political establishment, and were prepared to grasp any alternative. There is a danger that might happen in the UK.

The causes of that disbelief and rejection are different, of course.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline MT

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1629 on: July 05, 2016, 01:42:39 am »
You could stick the very same label on anyone who votes for Hillary to! None of these are a "rational" vote as you try to make it.

But if you for a second put all that Washington post ect blabber aside and look into either one of these you get a textbook narcissist/oligarch, what kind of less-of-the-same is that? Hitler, Mossulini etc was also "disturbers".. Voting for any of these will just divide US even further but i suspect after reading your posts that is what you want?

Besides where is the "reasonable evidence" based on Trumps blabber for what Trump would/could achieve as president? Most of his promises is just wierd and even bended against the constitution. Trump on the other hand have managed to anger the Scotts at his golf course and earlier NRA with his "guns-in-the-bar-idea". What kind of ""disturbance"" was that? all it ended in was senate deadlock and the arms restriction law into the bin one more time. Trump didn't change status qou at all, he rather cemented it! And voting in Hillary would most likely end in the very same cementing!


I have to vote!  If I don't vote, I can't bitch.  So sayeth my father a long time ago!

I would absolutely never vote for Hillary and Trump is the only other realistic choice.   There is no check box for None Of The Above.  We have a vacancy in the Supreme Court.  I would be happy with a vacancy in the Office of the President.

Alright then, i dont vote and do bitch because there is no realistic choices to vote on, so your "american way" is for me a bit of a contradiction... sort of.. Still, out of 318.9 mill people Trump is the only other realistic choice seams just a bit odd, but actually it would be quite interesting to see Trump as president..I assume anything from highly entertaining to hideous disgusting, or both!




I asked before to name one thing the UK is good at. So far the only significant item on the list seems that London is Europe's financial centre.

Fish and Chips? Easy for EU to move banking to Frankfurt or Paris.

I would also like to inform debaters about the Nordic agreement started in 1952 which enables Nordic's to work, live study buy property etc in these countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Passport_Union
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 02:26:21 am by MT »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1630 on: July 05, 2016, 02:42:20 am »
I'm interested in what is going to happen in the next few years, as regards the EU. If any other significant player EU member countries also end up leaving. I think things will be far more likely to change, as regards the EU.

The 27 are motivated to crucify the UK, "pour encourager les autres" - i.e. let their population see that leaving is worse than staying.

Oh, that will be the perfect  illustration why the UK is much better out of this camp 8) .

Prove that assertion.

This isn't a game, despite what some politicians evidently believe.

I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way  ;) .

Having been through the Berlin Wall several times, and having had family friends that crawled under the Iron Curtain to escape, your statement is completely unbelievable.

Out of curiosity - what exactly about my statement you find "completely unbelievable"? Or just all of it? It is accurate to the best of my (first-hand) knowledge. 

All of your statement, of course.

I'll change my mind if you can demonstrate the existence of forced labour camps or of people being machine gunned for trying to leave. Or anything remotely comparable, for that matter.


While I neither agree or disagree with Alex's statement, I do appreciate the point he has made - and can see how he has formed this opinion.  You, however, have taken the concept being presented to the ridiculous extreme.  In my eyes at least, you have lost all credibility in this line of discussion.

For those who might wonder what I mean:
 Alex Nikitin is saying 'It seems to be getting warmer' and tggzzz has responded with 'Show me where are sitting on the surface of the sun with our backsides getting fried'.


Such techniques make for poor - certainly less than worthwhile - discussion and are typical in many political topics, not just in the UK, but anywhere and everywhere across the globe.  Throw in the media and there's little chance the voters will actually get much in the way of objective information - and even less of them being able to recognise it in the sea of bullsh*t that surrounds them.

Precisely. The debate was a national disgrace and made me ashamed to be British.

Don't be ashamed to be British, be ashamed to be part of a political and media driven world ... but also have a look in the mirror.  Propagating the type of extreme response I mentioned above is exactly the type of thing that contributes to: "The debate was a national disgrace".


Unfounded sensationalism may score points with the general public, but when I see it, it irritates me no end.
 
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Offline jancumps

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1631 on: July 05, 2016, 04:53:20 am »
I'm interested in what is going to happen in the next few years, as regards the EU. If any other significant player EU member countries also end up leaving. I think things will be far more likely to change, as regards the EU.

The 27 are motivated to crucify the UK, "pour encourager les autres" - i.e. let their population see that leaving is worse than staying.

Oh, that will be the perfect  illustration why the UK is much better out of this camp 8) .

Prove that assertion.

This isn't a game, despite what some politicians evidently believe.

I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way  ;) .

Having been through the Berlin Wall several times, and having had family friends that crawled under the Iron Curtain to escape, your statement is completely unbelievable.

Out of curiosity - what exactly about my statement you find "completely unbelievable"? Or just all of it? It is accurate to the best of my (first-hand) knowledge. 

Cheers

Alex


All of it.  Just try it and leave. You won't be shot.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1632 on: July 05, 2016, 05:04:58 am »
Let me ask one simple question:

Did at any point in time was it stated that a simple majority of those who voted would result in an immutable obligation upon the UK government to exit the EU?

Yes.

Cheers

Alex

Where can I find this?
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1633 on: July 05, 2016, 05:05:25 am »


Hmm, any club where to join costs a pound and to leave - two pounds, smells just wrong to me. If EU officials consider ways to make the UK exit as difficult as possible (all for the common good of other members, obviously), that smells exactly as the Soviet type of politics. I sincerely hope that the EU would not use this kind of approach in practice, however we all will see what course will be taken soon enough.

Cheers

Alex

Leaving the club is free. There is no cost in submitting a leave.

You don't have the burdens and benifits of the club anymore after you left. That may be a benifit or a burden. But it is what the people of Brittain wanted.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1634 on: July 05, 2016, 07:11:27 am »
UK leaving the EU is one of the biggest critics (unfortunately) leaving the club so why would other countries now leave or the EU start to reform rigirously? The main critic has left ?

Then for other countries leaving the EU, that could IMO be a possibility when UK has a grand master plan, executes it correctly and shows the rest of the EU or world that its country flourished and grown economically after leaving.

What do we see:
1) the GBP under pressure
2) companies leaving or threatening to leave
3) the political leaders that should now execute the masterplan seem to have no masterplan and are bailing out one by one.

What should be the reason to leave the EU ?
IF countries would leave the EU they would wait and see how the UK will continue and IF succesfull perhaps some will also leave, however the countries you name do not have the same economical situation as the UK, for instance the Netherlands earns most of its money from import/export so we need to have negotiations with a lot of other countries, leaving the EU would kill all those treaties.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1635 on: July 05, 2016, 07:37:02 am »
Hmm, any club where to join costs a pound and to leave - two pounds, smells just wrong to me. If EU officials consider ways to make the UK exit as difficult as possible (all for the common good of other members, obviously), that smells exactly as the Soviet type of politics. I sincerely hope that the EU would not use this kind of approach in practice, however we all will see what course will be taken soon enough.

Cheers

Alex
The only difference to-be-made is causing a complete bankrupcy, so that the walls and border security that are used to keep some of the migrants OUTSIDE the area can be used for keeping the population INSIDE the area.

(this is not a racist statement, but an observation. there are walls, and there is border security, and there are legal and illegal migrants wanting to cross it)
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1636 on: July 05, 2016, 07:45:00 am »
When I voted to join what was then the EEC I never voted for Political union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_creep
Of course he did:
http://www.hri.org/docs/Rome57/Preamble.html
"Determined to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe"
Yes, I've seen that treaty before when researching my decision on how to vote, but were the electorate aware of it at the time?

Were copies of the treaty widely published and easily available to the UK public?

I wasn't there at the time but I get the feeling few people who voted in the last referendum on Europe were aware of they were really signing up to.

A true democracy only exists when there is a well informed electorate but it seems like this wasn't the case in EU referenda of 1975 and in 2016.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 07:52:32 am by Hero999 »
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1637 on: July 05, 2016, 07:46:55 am »
Let me ask one simple question:

Did at any point in time was it stated that a simple majority of those who voted would result in an immutable obligation upon the UK government to exit the EU?

As far as I heard till now, the british referendum isn't binding, but a major politician(s)/party(s) (cameron?) promised he will treat is as binding.
But of course, "democracy" delivers many possibilities to put the people's will aside.

There has always been the possibility to Brexit, even if only 20% of the population wanted it.
Completely unthinkable, of course, witch shows in this case that the political class and bureaucracy will always only tend to more politics and more bureaucracy.
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1638 on: July 05, 2016, 07:55:35 am »
Having been through the Berlin Wall several times, and having had family friends that crawled under the Iron Curtain to escape, your statement is completely unbelievable.

We were told that border was armed and dangerous, and they will shoot to kill. But I've never been there.

http://www.berliner-mauer-gedenkstaette.de/en/todesopfer-240.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall


If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1639 on: July 05, 2016, 08:03:37 am »
Alright then, i dont vote and do bitch because there is no realistic choices to vote on, so your "american way" is for me a bit of a contradiction... sort of.. Still, out of 318.9 mill people Trump is the only other realistic choice seams just a bit odd, but actually it would be quite interesting to see Trump as president..I assume anything from highly entertaining to hideous disgusting, or both!
My biggest fear is he indeed gets elected, and then does nothing he promised, and starts imitating Obama/Hillary/Bush(1).
And goes to Saudi Arabia to talk about the human rights institute, visits Wallstreet and does some expensive speeches, and has meetings with hollande/merkel/juncker about more bureaucracy, and keeps on injecting money in the war Bush/Obama(1) started.

(1) Delete as appropriate.
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1640 on: July 05, 2016, 09:12:44 am »
Trimmed/reorganised to highlight the key point which has evidently been missed; look in Brumby's original message for full history.
Quote from: Alex Nikitin
I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way  ;) .

While I neither agree or disagree with Alex's statement, I do appreciate the point he has made - and can see how he has formed this opinion.  You, however, have taken the concept being presented to the ridiculous extreme.  In my eyes at least, you have lost all credibility in this line of discussion.

For those who might wonder what I mean:
 Alex Nikitin is saying 'It seems to be getting warmer' and tggzzz has responded with 'Show me where are sitting on the surface of the sun with our backsides getting fried'.

Er. No. You've got that completely the wrong way round.

If you want to use that analogy, Nikitin compared sitting on the surface of the sun with it getting warmer in the EU. Nikitin mentioned people being shot/imprisoned. I objected to that ridiculous comparison!

In the USSR and satellites I know people that risked their lives to escape, and I personally saw (and have photos of) the killing zone on the "other" side of the Berlin Wall. As far as I am aware people are still risking their lives to get into the EU.

That's a hell of a difference.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline 3db

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1641 on: July 05, 2016, 09:17:09 am »
You could stick the very same label on anyone who votes for Hillary to! None of these are a "rational" vote as you try to make it.

But if you for a second put all that Washington post ect blabber aside and look into either one of these you get a textbook narcissist/oligarch, what kind of less-of-the-same is that? Hitler, Mossulini etc was also "disturbers".. Voting for any of these will just divide US even further but i suspect after reading your posts that is what you want?

Besides where is the "reasonable evidence" based on Trumps blabber for what Trump would/could achieve as president? Most of his promises is just wierd and even bended against the constitution. Trump on the other hand have managed to anger the Scotts at his golf course and earlier NRA with his "guns-in-the-bar-idea". What kind of ""disturbance"" was that? all it ended in was senate deadlock and the arms restriction law into the bin one more time. Trump didn't change status qou at all, he rather cemented it! And voting in Hillary would most likely end in the very same cementing!


I have to vote!  If I don't vote, I can't bitch.  So sayeth my father a long time ago!

I would absolutely never vote for Hillary and Trump is the only other realistic choice.   There is no check box for None Of The Above.  We have a vacancy in the Supreme Court.  I would be happy with a vacancy in the Office of the President.

Alright then, i dont vote and do bitch because there is no realistic choices to vote on, so your "american way" is for me a bit of a contradiction... sort of.. Still, out of 318.9 mill people Trump is the only other realistic choice seams just a bit odd, but actually it would be quite interesting to see Trump as president..I assume anything from highly entertaining to hideous disgusting, or both!




I asked before to name one thing the UK is good at. So far the only significant item on the list seems that London is Europe's financial centre.

Fish and Chips? Easy for EU to move banking to Frankfurt or Paris.

I would also like to inform debaters about the Nordic agreement started in 1952 which enables Nordic's to work, live study buy property etc in these countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Passport_Union

London is a GLOBAL banking centre.   |O
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1642 on: July 05, 2016, 09:24:08 am »
Trimmed/reorganised to highlight the key point which has evidently been missed; look in Brumby's original message for full history.
Quote from: Alex Nikitin
I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way  ;) .

While I neither agree or disagree with Alex's statement, I do appreciate the point he has made - and can see how he has formed this opinion.  You, however, have taken the concept being presented to the ridiculous extreme.  In my eyes at least, you have lost all credibility in this line of discussion.

For those who might wonder what I mean:
 Alex Nikitin is saying 'It seems to be getting warmer' and tggzzz has responded with 'Show me where are sitting on the surface of the sun with our backsides getting fried'.

Er. No. You've got that completely the wrong way round.

If you want to use that analogy, Nikitin compared sitting on the surface of the sun with it getting warmer in the EU. Nikitin mentioned people being shot/imprisoned. I objected to that ridiculous comparison!

In the USSR and satellites I know people that risked their lives to escape, and I personally saw (and have photos of) the killing zone on the "other" side of the Berlin Wall. As far as I am aware people are still risking their lives to get into the EU.

That's a hell of a difference.

If I have gotten that the wrong way around, then my apologies - but the impression I got was that the hierarchy of the EU was starting to show signs of getting possessive.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1643 on: July 05, 2016, 09:35:12 am »
Trimmed/reorganised to highlight the key point which has evidently been missed; look in Brumby's original message for full history.
Quote from: Alex Nikitin
I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way  ;) .

While I neither agree or disagree with Alex's statement, I do appreciate the point he has made - and can see how he has formed this opinion.  You, however, have taken the concept being presented to the ridiculous extreme.  In my eyes at least, you have lost all credibility in this line of discussion.

For those who might wonder what I mean:
 Alex Nikitin is saying 'It seems to be getting warmer' and tggzzz has responded with 'Show me where are sitting on the surface of the sun with our backsides getting fried'.

Er. No. You've got that completely the wrong way round.

If you want to use that analogy, Nikitin compared sitting on the surface of the sun with it getting warmer in the EU. Nikitin mentioned people being shot/imprisoned. I objected to that ridiculous comparison!

In the USSR and satellites I know people that risked their lives to escape, and I personally saw (and have photos of) the killing zone on the "other" side of the Berlin Wall. As far as I am aware people are still risking their lives to get into the EU.

That's a hell of a difference.

If I have gotten that the wrong way around, then my apologies - but the impression I got was that the hierarchy of the EU was starting to show signs of getting possessive.

Hierarchies always become possessive, and the EU is no exception. There are many things that I would change in the EU.

Stupid question: should X leave the EU?
Useful questions: can the EU be improved? Is X better inside the EU or outside the EU?
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline ProBang2

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1644 on: July 05, 2016, 09:44:11 am »

London is a GLOBAL banking centre.   |O

Until now, because it has provided access to the EU market.

It seems to go to Frankfurt: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36698382
 

Offline Alex Nikitin

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1645 on: July 05, 2016, 09:52:49 am »
Trimmed/reorganised to highlight the key point which has evidently been missed; look in Brumby's original message for full history.
Quote from: Alex Nikitin
I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way  ;) .

While I neither agree or disagree with Alex's statement, I do appreciate the point he has made - and can see how he has formed this opinion.  You, however, have taken the concept being presented to the ridiculous extreme.  In my eyes at least, you have lost all credibility in this line of discussion.

For those who might wonder what I mean:
 Alex Nikitin is saying 'It seems to be getting warmer' and tggzzz has responded with 'Show me where are sitting on the surface of the sun with our backsides getting fried'.

Er. No. You've got that completely the wrong way round.

If you want to use that analogy, Nikitin compared sitting on the surface of the sun with it getting warmer in the EU. Nikitin mentioned people being shot/imprisoned. I objected to that ridiculous comparison!

In the USSR and satellites I know people that risked their lives to escape, and I personally saw (and have photos of) the killing zone on the "other" side of the Berlin Wall. As far as I am aware people are still risking their lives to get into the EU.

That's a hell of a difference.

As you've just quoted, I said only "starts to smell that way" , which is quite obviously very far from the full Soviet "paradise"  :) , so Brumby did understand my point correctly, and you've overreacted rather badly, sorry to say.

On the second point - everything is relative. Even the Soviet essentially jail-like care was and still is attractive to some people. The point I am trying to make is that the EU is making some steps into that very direction, where the top bureaucracy "knows better" what is good for the population and people have essentially no say in these matters. Also it looks like the trade and economics are hostages of socialist political ambitions in the EU, and that is also something to avoid, IMHO.

Cheers

Alex
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1646 on: July 05, 2016, 10:09:16 am »
The main goal of the EU has implicitly changed to the creation of a United States of Europe.
Which is impossible due to the many language barriers and different cultures. Instead, for this to succeed you need several new generations. Since you need the children to get used to the idea. If you have a generation that is used to something, they won't object. Children now have never seen any other currency then Euro's. Therefore they don't know any better. Yet, ask any old guy and they'll want the [insert currency] back. Since "everything used to be better  >:(".

They are currently in the process of getting turkey to join. Which they are able to, if they wait set the join-date another ~15 years ahead.
Attempting to join Turkey right now will cause severe right wing protests. And possibly more exits. Turkey is even more culturally different than the core of the EU as-is.

Fast changes will always be opposed. Slow changes won't, people don't live long enough.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1647 on: July 05, 2016, 10:25:46 am »
Trimmed/reorganised to highlight the key point which has evidently been missed; look in Brumby's original message for full history.
Quote from: Alex Nikitin
I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way  ;) .

While I neither agree or disagree with Alex's statement, I do appreciate the point he has made - and can see how he has formed this opinion.  You, however, have taken the concept being presented to the ridiculous extreme.  In my eyes at least, you have lost all credibility in this line of discussion.

For those who might wonder what I mean:
 Alex Nikitin is saying 'It seems to be getting warmer' and tggzzz has responded with 'Show me where are sitting on the surface of the sun with our backsides getting fried'.

Er. No. You've got that completely the wrong way round.

If you want to use that analogy, Nikitin compared sitting on the surface of the sun with it getting warmer in the EU. Nikitin mentioned people being shot/imprisoned. I objected to that ridiculous comparison!

In the USSR and satellites I know people that risked their lives to escape, and I personally saw (and have photos of) the killing zone on the "other" side of the Berlin Wall. As far as I am aware people are still risking their lives to get into the EU.

That's a hell of a difference.

As you've just quoted, I said only "starts to smell that way" , which is quite obviously very far from the full Soviet "paradise"  :) , so Brumby did understand my point correctly, and you've overreacted rather badly, sorry to say.

Your comparison is still ridiculous, and does a disservice to those that lived under those conditions in the USSR.

There's too much black propaganda on topics like this. Certainly Putin would like to do to the EU what we did to the USSR.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline 3db

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1648 on: July 05, 2016, 10:33:33 am »

London is a GLOBAL banking centre.   |O

Until now, because it has provided access to the EU market.

It seems to go to Frankfurt: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36698382

London was a global financial before the EU even existed.
I guess we'll see how Frankfurt gets on.  ;D
 

Offline Alex Nikitin

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1649 on: July 05, 2016, 11:02:45 am »
Your comparison is still ridiculous, and does a disservice to those that lived under those conditions in the USSR.

Hmm, I am in a somewhat better position to judge that  ;) . Moreover, I know that my point of view is shared by many from the former USSR, with some of these people have suffered a lot more than me personally (i.e went through Soviet camps, jails and psychiatric clinics). You develop an allergy to this kind of things and as a result we are more sensitive to these "superstate" ambitions of the EU than many people here in the West. The UK though has just (hopefully) put some brakes to that bureaucratic gravy train.

There's too much black propaganda on topics like this. Certainly Putin would like to do to the EU what we did to the USSR.

Why? The current EU is very convenient for him. The Brexit came as an unpleasant surprise to Mr. Putler.

Cheers

Alex

 


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