Poll

So, what you (UK) guys think? Exit or not to exit?

YES, please get me out of there (I'm UK) [go]
41 (19.5%)
Hell no, we are one big (happy) family! (I'm UK) [stay]
42 (20%)
OMG, let them Go! [go]
63 (30%)
I love the UK, they are family! [stay]
64 (30.5%)

Total Members Voted: 208

Voting closed: July 10, 2016, 10:29:34 am

Author Topic: UK forum members, BREXIT?  (Read 347195 times)

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Offline Marco

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #275 on: June 14, 2016, 10:33:33 pm »
Lights going out will cause riots in the streets. "Loss of sovereignty" hasn't caused anything remotely like that.

Germany is headed for destruction within a single generation. You think after muslims get more political power they will be smart enough to put the economy over handouts/jizya from the kafirs? You think the most productive people in Europe will stay when this all goes down?

We have years to solve this before it becomes unsolvable without ethnic cleansing. It seems unlikely anything will be solved within the EU. I for one am no longer optimistic about solutions, but I doubt we will make war either. We will go quietly into the night, waving to the best of us as they leave us behind (white flight). South Africa is the model for western Europe, they have a lot of trouble keeping the lights on as well.
 

Online Rick Law

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #276 on: June 14, 2016, 10:59:39 pm »
Together we stand, divided we fall... It's never a good thing to lose influence... Not for the EU and not for you Brits.  :(

Trouble is, putting all the eggs in one basket means if the basket drops, all eggs are broken.

History shows there are bad people who manage to get into power.  Had Europe been a single unified government (no Britain) when Hitler got into power, there would have been no recovery.  America would not be able to do what it did without the "unsinkable aircraft carrier" that was the British Island.

The more nations, the more the competition, and the more the options.  Competition helps every nation improve themselves.  When a nation becomes a failed nation, that it is not a "one world government" means (a) the average folks has examples how other nations work better and (b) some place to run to for safety.  With a "single world unified government", folks will have no where to go.  They will be totally under the thumb of the bad lone government.

Nations are choices available for people.  A smaller number of nations means a smaller number of available alternatives for people.  Governments are never fond of giving there own people choices. 

That said, it is important to add that that I am not in favor of unrestrained immigration.  A nation must have control of its identity, otherwise, it is a a piece of land without distinquishing characteristics.  Immigrants must understand that if they make their new home just like their old (non-assimulation), then the new home will have all the negatives of the home from which they escaped.
 
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Offline wraper

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #277 on: June 14, 2016, 11:44:25 pm »
The more nations, the more the competition, and the more the options.  Competition helps every nation improve themselves.  When a nation becomes a failed nation, that it is not a "one world government" means (a) the average folks has examples how other nations work better and (b) some place to run to for safety.  With a "single world unified government", folks will have no where to go.  They will be totally under the thumb of the bad lone government.
Oh my. More nations you say, competition? Well, and then comes one big nation and deals with each smaller nation one by one. EDIT: //As you mentioned Hitler, he had been allowed to do exactly that until it became already too late for larger countries too.//
Bunch of independent cockroaches I may say. Unless country is really big, it cannot pull any grand projects like space launches, therefore get outperformed by those who can pull off that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule
How do you think USA managed to to ruin Soviet union? The major thing was get it divided it into pieces on national basis. All of the former might and economy of the newly formed countries was ruined in instant.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 12:03:47 am by wraper »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #278 on: June 15, 2016, 12:10:10 am »
The more nations, the more the competition, and the more the options.  Competition helps every nation improve themselves.  When a nation becomes a failed nation, that it is not a "one world government" means (a) the average folks has examples how other nations work better and (b) some place to run to for safety.  With a "single world unified government", folks will have no where to go.  They will be totally under the thumb of the bad lone government.
Oh my. More nations you say, competition? Well, and then comes one big nation and deals with each smaller nation one by one. EDIT: //As you mentioned Hitler, he had been allowed to do exactly that until it became already too late for larger countries too.//
Bunch of independent cockroaches I may say. Unless country is really big, it cannot pull any grand projects like space launches, therefore get outperformed by those who can pull off that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule
How do you think USA managed to to ruin Soviet union? The major thing was get it divided it into pieces on national basis. All of the former might and economy of the newly formed countries was ruined in instant.
Uhhh... isn't the US currently depending on Russia to launch rockets to the ISS? Speaking of which: the ISS is a collaboration of many countries. In other words: it doesn't matter whether a country is big or small as long as the countries are willing to work together great things can be achieved.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline wraper

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #279 on: June 15, 2016, 12:17:48 am »
Uhhh... isn't the US currently depending on Russia to launch rockets to the ISS? Speaking of which: the ISS is a collaboration of many countries. In other words: it doesn't matter whether a country is big or small as long as the countries are willing to work together great things can be achieved.
That's only because they lost big competition and proceeded to (successfully) conquer the rest of the world instead. Look what was happening in the Middle East and even Europe (Yugoslavia) during the last decades. All the time they bomb someone. If USSR was there, they would never even try what now is considered almost as given.
Quote
as long as the countries are willing to work together great things can be achieved.
Had a good laugh before going to sleep.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 12:19:33 am by wraper »
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #280 on: June 15, 2016, 12:20:55 am »
Another topic gone astray ...  :popcorn:
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Offline zapta

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #281 on: June 15, 2016, 01:46:39 am »
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #282 on: June 15, 2016, 02:44:02 am »
 

Online Rick Law

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #283 on: June 15, 2016, 04:49:28 am »
The more nations, the more the competition, and the more the options.  Competition helps every nation improve themselves.  When a nation becomes a failed nation, that it is not a "one world government" means (a) the average folks has examples how other nations work better and (b) some place to run to for safety.  With a "single world unified government", folks will have no where to go.  They will be totally under the thumb of the bad lone government.
Oh my. More nations you say, competition? Well, and then comes one big nation and deals with each smaller nation one by one. EDIT: //As you mentioned Hitler, he had been allowed to do exactly that until it became already too late for larger countries too.//
Bunch of independent cockroaches I may say. Unless country is really big, it cannot pull any grand projects like space launches, therefore get outperformed by those who can pull off that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule
How do you think USA managed to to ruin Soviet union? The major thing was get it divided it into pieces on national basis. All of the former might and economy of the newly formed countries was ruined in instant.
Uhhh... isn't the US currently depending on Russia to launch rockets to the ISS? Speaking of which: the ISS is a collaboration of many countries. In other words: it doesn't matter whether a country is big or small as long as the countries are willing to work together great things can be achieved.

In mere 10 years of the space race, USA reached the moon.

Had USA and USSR been competing all these years since then, we would have been on Mars by now with a good size settlement instead of sharing rockets to the toy called ISS.

The removal of competition has been the most destructive force towards progress.

Imagine the progress we would have made had there been 3 or 4 super colliders competing instead of just one...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 04:55:30 am by Rick Law »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #284 on: June 15, 2016, 05:02:09 am »
Imagine the progress we would have made had there been 3 or 4 super collides competing...

The USA had one under way in Texas, but after spending a billion dollars, Congress canceled the project on October 21, 1993.

Unless I'm mistaken, competition had nothing to do with it - and it was simple short-sightedness and ignorance wrapped up in the pressures of politics.  It has been said by some that the failure came down to the scientists not communicating the significance of what it might achieve ... and that Congress viewed the Higgs as 'just another particle'.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #285 on: June 15, 2016, 05:12:48 am »
The bets are still on Stay, despite the recent polls

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result?selectionName=leave

Yes, although the odds have been shortening on a Brexit particularly in the past few days as a series of polls have suggested a majority are for Brexit.

How people will vote at the ballot box isn't the same thing though, I can imagine many people who are not fully committed will vote remain as it's human nature to be risk averse and resist change. This occurred to some degree during the Scottish referendum vote which was too close to call.

I am sure that privately the SNP, a Scottish party who favour a Scottish breakup also want a Brexit, as that will likely trigger a second Scottish referendum, although that's not what they're publicly stating, favouring a remain vote when it comes to the EU. It's a stance that's never been explained to me, demand independance from one parliament that you have a reasonable amount of representation in to one where you don't, but that's another story.

The UKopposition leader is officially in the remain camp, although it seems to be rather begrudging: I am not at all convinced he means it.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #286 on: June 15, 2016, 05:15:19 am »
For the uninitiated, The Sun, a Murdoch rag and regular purveyor of facsimiles of the female form, has sucessfully backed pretty much every vote I can remember over the past 30 years or so. Whether they have pulled the right straw on this one remains to be seen.
Or you've greatly underestimated the power of the press to leadset public opinion.
 

Online Rick Law

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #287 on: June 15, 2016, 05:15:55 am »
The more nations, the more the competition, and the more the options.  Competition helps every nation improve themselves.  When a nation becomes a failed nation, that it is not a "one world government" means (a) the average folks has examples how other nations work better and (b) some place to run to for safety.  With a "single world unified government", folks will have no where to go.  They will be totally under the thumb of the bad lone government.
Oh my. More nations you say, competition? Well, and then comes one big nation and deals with each smaller nation one by one. EDIT: //As you mentioned Hitler, he had been allowed to do exactly that until it became already too late for larger countries too.//
Bunch of independent cockroaches I may say. Unless country is really big, it cannot pull any grand projects like space launches, therefore get outperformed by those who can pull off that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule
How do you think USA managed to to ruin Soviet union? The major thing was get it divided it into pieces on national basis. All of the former might and economy of the newly formed countries was ruined in instant.

I would not consider Wiki the definitive source of history.  Many operatives (officials) of the era in TV interviews described our (USA's) strategy as outspend them until they run out of money.

A single bigger nation is not the only solution.  Smaller nations can form federations or coalition or mutual defense packs.

When all the eggs are in one lone basket, one defect (broken basket handle) will drop all the eggs.  A dozen baskets to carry two dozen eggs may be inefficient, but it certainly increase the probability that some will survive.
 

Online Rick Law

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #288 on: June 15, 2016, 05:24:24 am »
Imagine the progress we would have made had there been 3 or 4 super collides competing...

The USA had one under way in Texas, but after spending a billion dollars, Congress canceled the project on October 21, 1993.

Unless I'm mistaken, competition had nothing to do with it - and it was simple short-sightedness and ignorance wrapped up in the pressures of politics.  It has been said by some that the failure came down to the scientists not communicating the significance of what it might achieve ... and that Congress viewed the Higgs as 'just another particle'.

Yeah, I was very very displeased by the Texas collider construction shutdown.  With Fermi Lab also shut down, I am not sure we have anything close to high energy collider anymore.

When there is no one else I can compare to, I cannot be the slowest.  So now I am free to gloat about how fast I got things done while taking it slow.

Competition is the key to accelerate progress, whether it is with space, science, education or the very dull day-to-day living standard.  "Keeping up with the Joneses" probably made more living standard improvement than the "Great Society" program implemented by LBJ.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 05:33:03 am by Rick Law »
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #289 on: June 15, 2016, 08:29:02 am »
Uhhh... isn't the US currently depending on Russia to launch rockets to the ISS? Speaking of which: the ISS is a collaboration of many countries. In other words: it doesn't matter whether a country is big or small as long as the countries are willing to work together great things can be achieved.
It always amazes me that people think that the USA won the space race. They lost in almost everything.
Intercontinental ballistic missile (August 1957)
Artificial satellite (October 1957)
Dog in space (November 1957)
Satellite to orbit the moon (1959)
Man into space (April 1961)
Man to spend a day in orbit (August 1961)
Long-duration flight for five days (June 1963)
Woman in space (June 1963)
Man to perform a spacewalk (March 1965)
Add stuff like the MIR, the Lunokhods, the Molniya satellites... And the fact that they are currently able to send stuff to orbit, unlike NASA.
 

Offline 3db

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #290 on: June 15, 2016, 08:35:17 am »
Uhhh... isn't the US currently depending on Russia to launch rockets to the ISS? Speaking of which: the ISS is a collaboration of many countries. In other words: it doesn't matter whether a country is big or small as long as the countries are willing to work together great things can be achieved.
That's only because they lost big competition and proceeded to (successfully) conquer the rest of the world instead. Look what was happening in the Middle East and even Europe (Yugoslavia) during the last decades. All the time they bomb someone. If USSR was there, they would never even try what now is considered almost as given.
Quote
as long as the countries are willing to work together great things can be achieved.
Had a good laugh before going to sleep.

What's so funny ?
USA buys the Russian engine because they have NOTHING better.
The world is better when nations work together.   |O
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #291 on: June 15, 2016, 08:46:51 am »
I'm surprised at the poll, roughly split down the middle. I would have expected a much higher GO vote among an educated technical audience?
 

Offline wraper

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #292 on: June 15, 2016, 08:53:38 am »
Had USA and USSR been competing all these years since then, we would have been on Mars by now with a good size settlement instead of sharing rockets to the toy called ISS.

The removal of competition has been the most destructive force towards progress.

Imagine the progress we would have made had there been 3 or 4 super colliders competing instead of just one...
So how it gets to the point that breakup of the USSR removed the competition but breakup of EU must increase it?
 

Offline TheAmmoniacal

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #293 on: June 15, 2016, 09:03:54 am »
Makes me wonder, who's in favor of breaking up the United States of America into independent / sovereign states?

The provinces of Canada?
The states of Australia?
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Offline wraper

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #294 on: June 15, 2016, 09:08:02 am »
Uhhh... isn't the US currently depending on Russia to launch rockets to the ISS? Speaking of which: the ISS is a collaboration of many countries. In other words: it doesn't matter whether a country is big or small as long as the countries are willing to work together great things can be achieved.
That's only because they lost big competition and proceeded to (successfully) conquer the rest of the world instead. Look what was happening in the Middle East and even Europe (Yugoslavia) during the last decades. All the time they bomb someone. If USSR was there, they would never even try what now is considered almost as given.
Quote
as long as the countries are willing to work together great things can be achieved.
Had a good laugh before going to sleep.

What's so funny ?
USA buys the Russian engine because they have NOTHING better.
The world is better when nations work together.   |O
Because they almost never will honestly work together for greater good. Why Russians sell those engines? Because their space industry was desperate after USSR collapse. Also those engines won't be sold for long. Russia don't plan ISS collaboration to last for long as well.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #295 on: June 15, 2016, 09:16:27 am »
I'm surprised at the poll, roughly split down the middle. I would have expected a much higher GO vote among an educated technical audience?

It is the opposite: the young and the rich want to stay, the old and the poor want to leave.

As usual, The Economist gives good info:  http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/06/britain-s-eu-referendum
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #296 on: June 15, 2016, 09:17:38 am »
Makes me wonder, who's in favor of breaking up the United States of America into independent / sovereign states?
The provinces of Canada?
The states of Australia?

Hardly anyone. Because, you know, countries.
 
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Offline rolycat

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #297 on: June 15, 2016, 09:40:15 am »
Makes me wonder, who's in favor of breaking up the United States of America into independent / sovereign states?

The last time they tried that the resulting conflict killed more Americans than any other war in history.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #298 on: June 15, 2016, 10:06:55 am »
I'm surprised at the poll, roughly split down the middle. I would have expected a much higher GO vote among an educated technical audience?

I see the division in another way.

-The people who got their income their whole life from BIG GOVERMENT, army, librarian,... or are into subsidized fields vote stay, afraid to loose taxmoney.

-The people who work for de-facto private companies or are de-facto independent in unsubsidized fields vote leave, afraid to have to pay more taxmoney.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 10:11:13 am by Galenbo »
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Offline kaz911

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #299 on: June 15, 2016, 10:15:47 am »
Makes me wonder, who's in favor of breaking up the United States of America into independent / sovereign states?
The provinces of Canada?
The states of Australia?

Hardly anyone. Because, you know, countries.

Just ask in Texas....
 


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