Poll

So, what you (UK) guys think? Exit or not to exit?

YES, please get me out of there (I'm UK) [go]
41 (19.5%)
Hell no, we are one big (happy) family! (I'm UK) [stay]
42 (20%)
OMG, let them Go! [go]
63 (30%)
I love the UK, they are family! [stay]
64 (30.5%)

Total Members Voted: 208

Voting closed: July 10, 2016, 10:29:34 am

Author Topic: UK forum members, BREXIT?  (Read 347212 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 10194
  • Country: au
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #325 on: June 16, 2016, 05:17:13 am »
I think the next parliamentary election would be more revealing.

They can't ignore that result.
 

Offline Howardlong

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4944
  • Country: gb
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #326 on: June 16, 2016, 07:31:09 am »
It would not surprise me that even if there was a majority vote to leave the EU that we don't.

That's my opinion too. Juncker has already said that if the UK vote to leave the EU will have to change, which to my mind is a key reason to vote for an exit, as remaining won't fix anything, the EU's declared steamroller to further federalism will continue like it or not.

There's a story that came out yesterday that Juncker's preparing to make a statement. Probably the worst thing he could do, like a red rag to a bull.
 

Offline G7PSK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3705
  • Country: gb
  • It is hot until proved not.
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #327 on: June 16, 2016, 07:35:53 am »
a coalition of Labour,SNP and Liberals who will turn around and say that as they did not call for the referendum,were never behind it and against leaving the EU they are not bound by the result they will keep the UK in the EU.

I think you'd have a couple new terrorist organizations supported by a large part of your population the next day ... seems a bad idea.
The English person dose not think that way, they would just sit down under it, grumble about it until we worked ourselves up enough to have another abortive referendum. Remember we have not had a revolution here since 1642-1651. Cromwell set up the civil service to keep us quite.
 

Offline wraper

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 11976
  • Country: lv
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #328 on: June 16, 2016, 09:28:24 am »
Young people are interesting. They seem to support policies that absolutely kill them in the long run.

A universal trait.

They have the openness of mind and rebellious attitude to take up 'new' causes, but not the critical thinking or experience of having lived through previous efforts.

“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it” - and often the key elements are in the not-so-obvious detail.
Old people are not a tiny bit better either, even worse. They trust all the BS which TV says. Then go and vote with "their own" opinion.
 

Offline DenzilPenberthy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 352
  • Country: gb
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #329 on: June 16, 2016, 09:44:28 am »
I was at Tower Bridge this morning, whilst on the way to work, to see the flotilla of trawlers go up the Thames.  The skippers are hard working fishermen who had a democratic right to have their voices heard. 

Yeah, bravely led by Farage who in the three years he was on the European Fisheries Committee, only bothered to turn up to one out of the 42 meetings. He also failed to vote in any of the three votes to amend the Common Fisheries Policy or to introduce measures to give more quota to small scale sustainable coastal fleets e.g. exactly the sort of boats that were with him.    :palm: |O
 

Offline NivagSwerdna

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2147
  • Country: gb
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #330 on: June 16, 2016, 01:35:26 pm »
Yeah, bravely led by Farage
I think it was a tactical error that Farage was there.  They would have got better coverage if he was not present.
 

Offline tggzzz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 12465
  • Country: gb
    • Having fun doing more, with less
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #331 on: June 16, 2016, 02:03:23 pm »
Fundamentally it has turned into a question of whether you believe
  • the duplicitious lying bastards that have a job
  • the duplicitious lying bastards trying to get a job

Disgusting, shameful, a national disgrace.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline rstofer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7543
  • Country: us
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #332 on: June 16, 2016, 02:35:13 pm »
Makes me wonder, who's in favor of breaking up the United States of America into independent / sovereign states?
The provinces of Canada?
The states of Australia?

Hardly anyone. Because, you know, countries.

Just ask in Texas....


Or any area of California not in San Francisco or Los Angeles...  There are always proposals floating around to break up California into several states.  One day the issue may just make the ballot.
 

Offline rstofer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7543
  • Country: us
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #333 on: June 16, 2016, 02:53:37 pm »
Had there been competition, perhaps NASA would have focused more on Space - that is the S in NASA. 
Perhaps making peace war on earth and putting food in people's bellies was regarded more important than putting a few people on Mars. Mars isn't going anywhere in the next couple of million years so there is enough time to go there.

That's what the dinosaurs thought...  Richard Feynman, among many others, has called for more effort on 'locational diversity'.  We, as a civilization, are doomed if we don't spread out.  One small meteor and we're all toast.

The space program was probably the best investment the US has ever made.  Certainly better than dumping a trillion dollars into the Middle East!

I had no involvement with the program but I worked in small machine shops that did.  Tens of thousands of jobs were created in the skilled labor and technical fields.  Not to mention engineering!   Now we sit around watching reruns of Oprah.
 

Offline grumpydoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2751
  • Country: gb
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #334 on: June 16, 2016, 03:51:33 pm »
Fundamentally it has turned into a question of whether you believe
  • the duplicitious lying bastards that have a job
  • the duplicitious lying bastards trying to get a job

Disgusting, shameful, a national disgrace.
Amen

If you voted based on who has tole the least untruths I think the Remain campaign would just about have the edge but by a very slim margin. Mainly because when Osborne says he will run through a budget with £15b of cuts and £15b of tax hikes, however much you think that is scare-mongering, he is the chancellor and could present such a budget if he wanted. When the Vote Leave mob promise £100m a week more on the NHS you know that they do not actually have the power to make that commitment (however much they want it).

I have changed my mind in one respect which is that, up to about a month ago I would have confidently forecast a narrow majority in favour of remaining - now I'm not so sure.

I have also swung to the view that out should mean out, at the beginning of it all I though that if we voted out then we should aim for membership of the EEA - but that is too much of a loose-don't win scenario. If we go out we should aim at negotiating the necessary set of Free Trade agreements. It might even be that in 10 or 15 years we will have a vibrant economy again but it will take much more vision, dedication and commitment to the necessary change than I credit the UK government being capable of. It won't help that a Leave vote could see a vote of no confidence in Cameron and Osborne and possibly a radical change of government - but not to the Labour party because a) Corbyn is probably unelectable as PM and b) he's in the Remain campaign anyway. God help us if Boris were to become PM  :palm:

Edit: I note (http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/a_framework_for_taking_back_control_and_establishing_a_new_uk_eu_deal_after_23_june) that the Leave campaign are now calling for a "considered framework" to be erected before actually invoking Article 50 - this seems to me to be an admission that the process could not possibly be complete within two years. This is not the stance they took, if I recall, at the beginning of the "debate".
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 04:02:26 pm by grumpydoc »
 

Offline tggzzz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 12465
  • Country: gb
    • Having fun doing more, with less
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #335 on: June 16, 2016, 04:14:46 pm »
Fundamentally it has turned into a question of whether you believe
  • the duplicitious lying bastards that have a job
  • the duplicitious lying bastards trying to get a job

Disgusting, shameful, a national disgrace.
Amen

If you voted based on who has tole the least untruths I think the Remain campaign would just about have the edge but by a very slim margin. Mainly because when Osborne says he will run through a budget with £15b of cuts and £15b of tax hikes, however much you think that is scare-mongering, he is the chancellor and could present such a budget if he wanted. When the Vote Leave mob promise £100m a week more on the NHS you know that they do not actually have the power to make that commitment (however much they want it).

That's pretty much my view.

Quote
I have changed my mind in one respect which is that, up to about a month ago I would have confidently forecast a narrow majority in favour of remaining - now I'm not so sure.

Fromthe start I've been presuming that brexit will win, because people are so pissed off with the current situation that they are ready to believe the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Plus Murdoch annd the Barclay twins hate the EU (althought to be fair, the Torygraph coverage has been far more even handed that I expected).

Quote
God help us if Boris were to become PM  :palm:

In January I was thinking this could be a really bad year: Boris, Brexit, Trump.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19839
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #336 on: June 16, 2016, 04:25:11 pm »
Fundamentally it has turned into a question of whether you believe
  • the duplicitious lying bastards that have a job
  • the duplicitious lying bastards trying to get a job

Disgusting, shameful, a national disgrace.
The biggest problem with these kind of referenda is that they will always be a vote of confidence in the government and not the subject at hand. I think you can produce a fairly accurate prediction of the outcome from how long the current parliament has been in power.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline vodka

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 533
  • Country: es
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #337 on: June 16, 2016, 05:03:30 pm »

Quote
If we go out we should aim at negotiating the necessary set of Free Trade agreements.

This is a joke , you don't want the rules from CEE, but  yes you want a   Free Trade agreements with the CEE.

This sound me as the  greeks that they want  to borrow us money but they didn't want to return us . Simply ,a chantage .

And if it will won or it will lost the refendum , the CEE will apply the Lincoln  doctrine:  Union Federal states,  Common debt and  Treasure , a federation indivisible



 

Offline grumpydoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2751
  • Country: gb
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #338 on: June 16, 2016, 05:19:43 pm »

Quote
If we go out we should aim at negotiating the necessary set of Free Trade agreements.

This is a joke , you don't want the rules from CEE, but  yes you want a   Free Trade agreements with the CEE.
No, I would like to remain in the EU, but if we leave going for individual deals under WTO rules would be impossibly complex and a Norwegian style deal would be a pyrrhic victory.
 

Offline rolycat

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1090
  • Country: gb
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #339 on: June 16, 2016, 05:41:35 pm »
The news that Jo Cox MP has been murdered has resulted in the suspension of the campaign, and there is speculation that the vote may be delayed.

One of her colleagues, Maria Eagle MP, tweeted a supposed eyewitness report that the killer shouted "Britain First", although the tweet has now been deleted. The Independent is reporting that several witnesses heard the words.

A 52-year-old man has been arrested in connection with the shooting, named by locals (but not officially) as Thomas (Tommy) Mair.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 06:13:22 pm by rolycat »
 

Offline tom66

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3985
  • Country: gb
  • Electron Fiddler, FPGA Hacker, Embedded Systems EE
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #340 on: June 16, 2016, 05:49:52 pm »
I'm fairly sure that any kind of backtrack on the result would lead to:
) Widespread protests and riots
) Loss of confidence in the PM by a majority of his MPs resulting in an election
) Significant financial harm as a result of uncertainty in the future of the country

I very much doubt that the government will ignore the result, but I could see a second referendum being held.
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #341 on: June 16, 2016, 06:15:17 pm »
The news that Jo Cox MP has been murdered has resulted in the suspension of the campaign, and there is speculation that the vote may be delayed.

One of her colleagues, Maria Eagle MP, tweeted a supposed eyewitness report that the killer shouted "Britain First", although the tweet has now been deleted. The Independent is reporting that several witnesses heard the words.


Let the conspiracies begin...
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline Corporate666

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2007
  • Country: us
  • Remember, you are unique, just like everybody else
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #342 on: June 16, 2016, 06:24:40 pm »
This is a joke , you don't want the rules from CEE, but  yes you want a   Free Trade agreements with the CEE.

This sound me as the  greeks that they want  to borrow us money but they didn't want to return us . Simply ,a chantage .

That's one of the stupidest parts of the EU.  Why should countries homogenize their laws just so they can trade with each other?  It makes no sense.  An academic argument could be made that homogenized laws allow for lowered costs due to less regional variances, but then the ivory tower legislators come up with stuff like RoHS and cost infinitely more money with that one stupid idea than any savings from equalized laws would bring.

And equalizing (or trying to) so many varied countries with radically different social, political, economic and financial structures is never going to work well.  Some will always be coming out ahead and some falling behind.  Countries ought to be competing with each other for the best immigrants, for business, for the best educators and workers and to deliver the most productive and efficient framework of laws to their citizens.  That has largely been lost over the last few decades due to the largesse that many EU countries have voted themselves, and it's gotten worse after the EU (see: immigrant crisis).



Quote
And if it will won or it will lost the refendum , the CEE will apply the Lincoln  doctrine:  Union Federal states,  Common debt and  Treasure , a federation indivisible

I'm not sure what you mean - are you suggesting that the EU will refuse to allow the UK to leave?  That wouldn't go over well for many reasons.  But the UK (luckily for them) maintained their currency, so leaving is a much easier prospect.  And the process for leaving is written into law, so it's not like the EU can just say "no, we refuse to let you go".  I realize it must be approved, but if the UK votes exit and Brussels technocrats refuse to honor the will of the voters, it's going to get very very ugly.

I think the EU is doomed to ultimate failure.  It will fall apart within my lifetime.  It might get pretty ugly before that happens, but ultimately, the people getting the short end of the stick will decide it's better to just leave.  When the UK leaves and experiences prosperity above and beyond the rest of the EU, that will be the trigger that causes many of the populations of other members to call for an exit as well.
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline vodka

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 533
  • Country: es
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #343 on: June 16, 2016, 06:31:13 pm »

The Brexit is a tiger paper


European Union is as a tube of toothpaste: its content is very easy empty, but  for returning to put in place ,this is effort  impossible.
The UK is not going to leave the European Union, vote what the British vote, because in practice leave the European Union is that, impossible.
Of course, it is completely impossible if you belong to the Euro Zone, hence even the most lost items "Syriza" or "PODEMOS" propose the mere theoretical hypothesis abandon the euro.
But it is that disposing of its own national currency, as in the present case, it is also impossible.
Mainly, it would concur to throw a jug of cold realism on the heads of those who fantasize utopian dreamers conservative to these hours with returning to  nineteenth century with a deregulated capitalism only with breaking with Brussels bureaucrats.
They want to believe in this fairy tale forget that, regardless of their membership of the European Union, the United Kingdom will remain bound to comply to the letter all the provisions of the more than 700 international treaties will continue tying feet hands and hands to Her Majesty's Government to prevent delay clock 200 years of history.


Treaties ranging from the World Trade Organization to the International Monetary Fund or the World Bank, among others hundreds and hundreds. But it is that just be the beginning.
 The beginning of the end. Because, since they dismantled its old heavy industry during Thatcher, the UK lives basically provide services to the rest of its EU partners.
The main them, and with great difference is to lend money through his mammoth financial system. British citizens, missing more, they may want to leave the Union, but its banks, wants it or not,
they all go to shit  if they lose their privileged access to the continental market.
Although before embarking on this very patriotic journey toward certain bankruptcy the most likely would be for the City in full opted to move its corporate headquarters (and the thousands of skilled and high-paying jobs) across the English Channel.
For Not to mention the taxes that would no longer pay in the UK to move to pay them to the French, German or Spanish treasury department.
Renouncing the European market simply is not an option for them. The matter is as simple as they can't do it. Point.


But there is more, much more. It happens that the UK has the great fortune of being the first recipient of foreign direct investment among all who make up the EU country.
Specifically, 20% of the precious manna from heaven is heading to its shores every year.
Needless to say, without guaranteed unhindered access to the continental market, the owners of all that mountain of money would lack time to pack up and run with destination to Heathrow Airport.
And for what? To prevent arriving a few Romanians immigrants washing dishes and sweeping floors in London ? Well, neither for that would serve to  slam the door to Brussels.
Romanians (and Spanish) would follow to cross their borders. As by the way, the Norway and Switzerland borders  , two countries that are not part of the European Union but,
like it or not, they are obliged to accept the free movement of native foreign EU workers under penalty of see canceled their trade agreements with the Union.
If Switzerland and Norway don't have more remedy  to swallow this toad ,could you  do something very different from the UK? Of course not.
They also would swallow ,for beginning with the pride. That said, they will remain.

José García Domínguez

http://www.libremercado.com/2016-06-15/jose-garcia-dominguez-el-brexit-es-un-tigre-de-papel-79283/
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19839
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #344 on: June 16, 2016, 06:44:34 pm »
And equalizing (or trying to) so many varied countries with radically different social, political, economic and financial structures is never going to work well.  Some will always be coming out ahead and some falling behind.  Countries ought to be competing with each other for the best immigrants, for business, for the best educators and workers and to deliver the most productive and efficient framework of laws to their citizens.
That won't work in today's global economy. I see you are from the US. For a moment imagine each state will have it's own language, currency and radically different regulations. How easy would it be to trade between those states and how competitive would each state be compared to China or India?
Europe used to be that patchwork of countries, languages and currencies about 2 to 3 decades ago. Sometimes you need to team up to keep up with the competition.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline vodka

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 533
  • Country: es
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #345 on: June 16, 2016, 06:48:42 pm »
Quote
I'm not sure what you mean - are you suggesting that the EU will refuse to allow the UK to leave?

No exactly , if the referendum win ,the UK  can go out. But the CEE will change the laws and will tend to become an Union of the federal State as the USA.

Quote
For a moment imagine each state will have it's own language, currency and radically different regulations

For this motive ,the CEE must be an oficial  language common for all the countries and the same times international,only at europe there are two language English and Spanish.

And for more logical must be the English that are more extended on Europe that the Spanish



« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 07:02:20 pm by vodka »
 

Offline FrankD

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 33
  • Country: nl
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #346 on: June 16, 2016, 07:18:37 pm »
With a Brexit most of the car industry that is left in GB will probable move to eastern Europe countries if the new gb government attempts to impose tax on them.
 

Offline MT

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1290
  • Country: cn
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #347 on: June 16, 2016, 08:55:29 pm »
God help us if Boris were to become PM  :palm:

In January I was thinking this could be a really bad year: Boris, Brexit, Trump.

Here is the upcoming future PM and P's, how the hell do they manage to look so WIERD? Why do Trump often look like a toad?Surely they are not
slightly sociopathic?:

 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #348 on: June 16, 2016, 09:09:15 pm »
Here is the upcoming future PM and P's, how the hell do they manage to look so WIERD? Why do Trump often look like a toad?Surely they are not
slightly sociopathic?:



The Swedish version of critical thinking I presume.
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline MT

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1290
  • Country: cn
Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #349 on: June 16, 2016, 09:17:17 pm »
Really? :o  and american critical thinking is to actually vote for Trump?

Former Swedish PM giant toddler egg shaped head:



Today's PM very similar a certain fish:

« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 09:28:35 pm by MT »
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf