Poll

So, what you (UK) guys think? Exit or not to exit?

YES, please get me out of there (I'm UK) [go]
41 (19.5%)
Hell no, we are one big (happy) family! (I'm UK) [stay]
42 (20%)
OMG, let them Go! [go]
63 (30%)
I love the UK, they are family! [stay]
64 (30.5%)

Total Members Voted: 208

Voting closed: July 10, 2016, 10:29:34 am

Author Topic: UK forum members, BREXIT?  (Read 347226 times)

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Offline jancumps

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #600 on: June 22, 2016, 08:18:52 pm »
Inhabitants of Gibraltar can pack there bags if a brexit becomes a reality.  :popcorn:

Why? We're all going to stay befriended nations, whatever the outcome. Everyone will do their best to make the situation after the vote work.
 

Offline Delta

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #601 on: June 22, 2016, 08:21:02 pm »
Sun and cheap alcohol! Costa del sol is their favorite retirement destination, if Brittons exit Eu the Spaniards could quite easily demand them out of Spain! :popcorn:


Yeah, who'd want wealthy self-supporting retirees with pensions to spend in their country anyway?
 

Offline Delta

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #602 on: June 22, 2016, 08:23:28 pm »
Pretty much everyone in the Remain camp has admitted that reform of the current EU is necessary.

Unfortunately the top bloke has made it clear that that is not going to happen.

Quote
British voters have to know that there will be no kind of renegotiation. We have concluded a deal with the prime minister. He got the maximum he could receive and we gave the maximum we could give. So there will be no renegotiation, not on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned.

http://order-order.com/2016/06/22/juncker-no-reform-vote-remain/
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #603 on: June 22, 2016, 08:29:07 pm »
Buried as a side note in the business section on our 'impartial' BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36596060
Quote from: Markus Kerber (head of BDI)
Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries - or between the two political centres, the European Union on the one hand and the UK on the other - would be a very, very foolish thing in the 21st Century,
So vote 'stay' because exiting the EU will impose trade barriers one way or another even though they are not intended that way. Think about taxes, import tarifs, visa, product safety regulations, etc, etc. All these will need to be contained within new treaties and there will be problems for sure if the UK wants to use different product safety regulations than mainland Europe. If the UK exits they basically have to follow product safety rules (they could choose to adopt the ones from the US) they cannot influence. Ofcourse they could try and set their own but that would make the products the UK imports more expensive due to needing extra testing.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline MT

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #604 on: June 22, 2016, 08:47:45 pm »
Sun and cheap alcohol! Costa del sol is their favorite retirement destination, if Brittons exit Eu the Spaniards could quite easily demand them out of Spain! :popcorn:
Yeah, who'd want wealthy self-supporting retirees with pensions to spend in their country anyway?

You assume utterly wrongly they are wealthy and self sporting!

5.5millon Brittons in Spain is there because Spain cheap and EU laws! Brittons if leaving EU could/would lose a range of specific rights to live, work and to access pensions, healthcare and public services that are only guaranteed because of EU laws. Brittonic citizens resident abroad who have retired to Spain would then not be able to assume that these rights will be guaranteed. Suddenly cheap Spain is not so cheap anymore so there goes your wealthy self supporting pensioners.

Put it this way if Brexit Spain might go sour on 5,5million Brtittons having free health care they didnt pay for in the first place!
 

Offline bitslice

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #605 on: June 22, 2016, 08:51:08 pm »
Why is Spain so popular with the British?  weather - economics   ??
(BBC says Spain is the number 1 country for British expats)

France is nearer, but they don't like anyone (including themselves I think).
I believe Portugal is almost the only country that we haven't been to war with.
 

Offline Delta

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #606 on: June 22, 2016, 08:56:21 pm »

You assume utterly wrongly they are wealthy and self sporting!

5.5millon Brittons in Spain is there because Spain cheap and EU laws! Brittons if leaving EU could/would lose a range of specific rights to live, work and to access pensions, healthcare and public services that are only guaranteed because of EU laws. Brittonic citizens resident abroad who have retired to Spain would then not be able to assume that these rights will be guaranteed. Suddenly cheap Spain is not so cheap anymore so there goes your wealthy self supporting pensioners.

Put it this way if Brexit Spain might go sour on 5,5million Brtittons having free health care they didnt pay for in the first place!

5,500,000 Brits in Spain?  :-/O  Have you been on the vodka with that other dude?  :palm:

Seriously, where on earth did you get that number from?  It's around 750,000 I think...
 

Offline MT

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #607 on: June 22, 2016, 09:13:21 pm »
Vodka? No i dont drink Russian stuff, but would not say no to a Irish Cream. UK government, read a bit hastily, i stand corrected, so 5,5 million
abroad in total and 1 million in Spain, 1,4million Australia, 25000 in Sweden 15500 Norway...None dares come to Finland because of the language!

Anyhow point is, they might have to go back from sunny  low cost Spain!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 09:49:42 pm by MT »
 

Offline zapta

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #608 on: June 22, 2016, 09:15:12 pm »
...Im not particularly concerned merely holding the mirror reflect the future Putin-Trump friendship.

It's a crooked mirror

Drain the swamp.
 

Offline MT

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #609 on: June 22, 2016, 09:17:13 pm »
It's a crooked mirror



Yes i agree, also made in America!
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #610 on: June 22, 2016, 09:34:14 pm »
Sun and cheap alcohol! Costa del sol is their favorite retirement destination, if Brittons exit Eu the Spaniards could quite easily demand them out of Spain! :popcorn:



Spain would collapse (again) if all the Brits left. About 25 % of full time residents left between 2012 and 2014 - and that was felt on the economy along the popular spots. Most Brit  residents in Spain can actually pay for their own way from pensions - that is the kind of residents the local governments like! Money infused into the system - and all health/hospital issues invoiced on to the UK. REVENUE with no expense is the best part. And the Spanish while they love to say they don't like the Brits staying and taking housing in some places - they have found out the replacements nationalities are a lot worse. :)

Btw there are officially about 300.000 full time Brits left in Spain by mid of 2015.  Not 700.000... But if you count people with part time occupation (Like us) who have a little apartment there - then it might total to 700.000. But if they/we all left - the housing market would crash again. The locals says finally the Brits are returning and now they talk about Brexit..... 

Btw - I'm not a Brit but my family are. And we are lucky and found a place where people are mostly polite :) from locals to expats and not one of the "party" areas where it is full of Drunken Idiots with little respect for anything.

 

Offline MT

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #611 on: June 22, 2016, 09:47:34 pm »
There are now at least 3 different figures, from where did you get your numbers? We could turn it the other way how many
 Polish plumbers have to leave if UK leave, or the total numbers of foreigners in UK? or will they automatically become UK citizens?

 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #612 on: June 22, 2016, 10:00:57 pm »
so 5,5 million abroad in total and 1 million in Spain, 1,4million Australia, 25000 in Sweden 15500 Norway...None dares come to Finland because of the language!!
And the uk criminals come to Amsterdam  :(
Good luck tomorrow with voting!
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #613 on: June 22, 2016, 10:21:14 pm »
There are now at least 3 different figures, from where did you get your numbers? We could turn it the other way how many
 Polish plumbers have to leave if UK leave, or the total numbers of foreigners in UK? or will they automatically become UK citizens?


Most sources say about 300.000

From WIKI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Spain
and other: https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/
From SPANISH INE compiled data (actually < 300.000) : http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/2016/05/17/eu-expats-deserting-spain-thanks-government-policy/
(INE data is based on NIE numbers - which are the social security number in Spain - you are required to be registered if full time resident - or if you buy anything that requires registration (car, moped, house, apartment)  - or even buy a POWER SUPPLY from an online electronics shop - used for VAT statistics on "larger items" ) :)

 

Offline Delta

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #614 on: June 22, 2016, 10:55:45 pm »
Vodka? No i dont drink Russian stuff, but would not say no to a Irish Cream. UK government, read a bit hastily, i stand corrected, so 5,5 million
abroad in total and 1 million in Spain, 1,4million Australia, 25000 in Sweden 15500 Norway...None dares come to Finland because of the language!

Anyhow point is, they might have to go back from sunny  low cost Spain!

So be it.  It should be the choice of the Spanish who is allowed to reside in their country.  Anyone who thinks that's a xenophobic or bigoted stance can fuck right off, to be frank.

Incidentally I think it's highly unlikely that Spain would want to punt all the Brits out, but should they wish to then who are we to tell them otherwise.
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #615 on: June 22, 2016, 11:03:51 pm »
"It should be the choice of the Spanish who is allowed to reside in their country. "

It would surprise me that you get called precisely that. As I point out earlier, we live in a twisted world right now.

Hopefully, people 500 years from now don't look at multiculturalism as the cauuse of thee demise of Western civilization.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #616 on: June 22, 2016, 11:10:27 pm »
"It should be the choice of the Spanish who is allowed to reside in their country. "
I think they already did: who has money to spend stays. The climate in Spain is very tolerable even in the summer so I don't blame people for wanting to live there.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline MT

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #617 on: June 22, 2016, 11:45:42 pm »
Most sources say about 300.000

From WIKI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Spain
and other: https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/
From SPANISH INE compiled data (actually < 300.000) : http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/2016/05/17/eu-expats-deserting-spain-thanks-government-policy/
(INE data is based on NIE numbers - which are the social security number in Spain - you are required to be registered if full time resident - or if you buy anything that requires registration (car, moped, house, apartment)  - or even buy a POWER SUPPLY from an online electronics shop - used for VAT statistics on "larger items" ) :)

Power supply?

Wikki is wikki , According to the BBC, there are 761,000 British residents in Spain.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_migration_to_Spain#cite_note-3
but 319 000 i think it was http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/population/migration/data/estimates2/estimates15.shtml and 750 000 according to another UK gov estimate, 381 256 according to IBT!?  with one third of the total is registered of the total one would prefer?!!.. Prof Derrick Wyatt emeritus professor of law, Oxford University estimated 2million in total UK citizens lived abroad, assuming EU, no idea from where he got the numbers.

Hmm,,, to much fluctuations in the "estimated" measurements that's presented...
 
Anyho found some UK gov immigrant figure statistics https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-january-to-march-2016/summary... have to study these....

More interesting i think is Spaniards in UK! :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaniards_in_the_United_Kingdom

Quote
Spain would collapse (again) if all the Brits left. About 25 % of full time residents left between 2012 and 2014 - and that was felt on the economy along the popular spots. Most Brit  residents in Spain can actually pay for their own way from pensions - that is the kind of residents the local governments like! Money infused into the system - and all health/hospital issues invoiced on to the UK. REVENUE with no expense is the best part. And the Spanish while they love to say they don't like the Brits staying and taking housing in some places - they have found out the replacements nationalities are a lot worse. :)

But Spain have collapsed, Barcelona wants out of Spain. ;)



Quote
Btw there are officially about 300.000 full time Brits left in Spain by mid of 2015.  Not 700.000... But if you count people with part time occupation (Like us) who have a little apartment there - then it might total to 700.000. But if they/we all left - the housing market would crash again. The locals says finally the Brits are returning and now they talk about Brexit.....

Yes but perhaps those who vote for a leave are those who cant afford a Spanish retirement house?
Brexit is then sort of poor jobless brit's against middle class wealthy brit's!

Quote
Btw - I'm not a Brit but my family are. And we are lucky and found a place where people are mostly polite :) from locals to expats and not one of the "party" areas where it is full of Drunken Idiots with little respect for anything.

But these drunken idiots is what some one here said was " self-supporting retirees with pensions to spend".. :)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 11:56:53 pm by MT »
 

Offline doobedoobedo

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #618 on: June 22, 2016, 11:49:00 pm »
Buried as a side note in the business section on our 'impartial' BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36596060
Quote from: Markus Kerber (head of BDI)
Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries - or between the two political centres, the European Union on the one hand and the UK on the other - would be a very, very foolish thing in the 21st Century,
So vote 'stay' because exiting the EU will impose trade barriers one way or another even though they are not intended that way. Think about taxes, import tarifs, visa, product safety regulations, etc, etc. All these will need to be contained within new treaties and there will be problems for sure if the UK wants to use different product safety regulations than mainland Europe. If the UK exits they basically have to follow product safety rules (they could choose to adopt the ones from the US) they cannot influence. Ofcourse they could try and set their own but that would make the products the UK imports more expensive due to needing extra testing.

I'd rather have democracy thanks.

The result of the Dutch people voting the wrong way Why we should ban referenda on EU policies
 

Offline doobedoobedo

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #619 on: June 22, 2016, 11:51:30 pm »
Brexit is then sort of poor jobless brit's against middle class wealthy brit's!
I didn't realise we'd been fucked by the EU even worse than Greece.
 

Offline Marco

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #620 on: June 23, 2016, 12:40:38 am »
The result of the Dutch people voting the wrong way Why we should ban referenda on EU policies

Because the EU absolutely must be able to negotiate international treaties, national sovereignty absolutely must die, there is absolutely no alternative.

I hope they get their smug shit pushed in soon as we all elect populists, before they ruin Europe and get on their planes and boats heading towards US/Canada/NZ/Australia going "oh well we tried, but the bigoted natives just were too discriminatory and that's why it all went wrong" as the now majority immigrants riot in a collapsing economy.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 12:49:10 am by Marco »
 

Offline lemmegraphdat

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #621 on: June 23, 2016, 02:21:54 am »
Get out. The ruling class can swivel on it.
Start right now.
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #622 on: June 23, 2016, 04:36:56 am »
Trump is a textbook demagogue: everything he says is designed to engage with people's emotions, fears and prejudices rather than their brains.

Very much the same tactics being used by both sides of the Brexit campaign, in fact.

What action did Trump took made him a demagogue?  What did he say that made him a demagogue?  Give me a quote please.
As enjoyable as it might be, this thread is not the appropriate place for a protracted discussion of Donald Trump's verbal excretions.

If you cannot cite a quote, it is baseless.  Why then do you see this as an appropriate place for you to throw verbal bombs and baseless accusations?

 :-+
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #623 on: June 23, 2016, 06:28:01 am »


But these drunken idiots is what some one here said was " self-supporting retirees with pensions to spend".. :)

no - mostly package holiday tours....
 

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #624 on: June 23, 2016, 06:44:09 am »
I note that our informal poll is now showing a slight preference to remain, although our European colleagues still want rid of us :)

Talking of the Ex-Pats I wonder how well they have been represented in the opinion polls so far. One would assume that Brits living in Europe would be heavily biased towards remaining in the EU. Not least of which because of fears that their residency status would become uncertain - my understanding is that they would retain their residency rights but this has come up once or twice in the debate.

However many there are, be it 700,000 or 300,000 in Spain, 170,000 in France, 100,000 in Germany etc.  there are certainly enough to swing a 50:50 vote in the UK to a decent "Remain" majority overall.
 


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