Poll

So, what you (UK) guys think? Exit or not to exit?

YES, please get me out of there (I'm UK) [go]
41 (19.5%)
Hell no, we are one big (happy) family! (I'm UK) [stay]
42 (20%)
OMG, let them Go! [go]
63 (30%)
I love the UK, they are family! [stay]
64 (30.5%)

Total Members Voted: 208

Voting closed: July 10, 2016, 10:29:34 am

Author Topic: UK forum members, BREXIT?  (Read 358947 times)

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Offline 3db

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1675 on: July 05, 2016, 07:04:24 pm »
Contrary to popular belief turmoil in the currency markets is the best thing ever for speculators.
This is quite normal.
It takes a we while for the dust to settle.  ;D
 

Offline Delta

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1676 on: July 05, 2016, 07:11:42 pm »
FFS.

The big financial services dudes are not going to pack up and leave the City of London, exactly the same as they didn't when we chose to not join the Eurozone. 

It really seems like there are a lot of Remainers who are so bitter that would actually prefer the UK to go down the pan, rather than succeed, just so the can give it an "I told you so".  Selfish, small-minded, sore-losers.

The UK is leaving the EU.  Get used to it, and get on with it.
 
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Offline apis

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1677 on: July 05, 2016, 07:24:29 pm »
The GBP has dropped -16.5% over the last year, currently lowest value in 31 years and falling...

FFS.

The big financial services dudes are not going to pack up and leave the City of London, exactly the same as they didn't when we chose to not join the Eurozone. 

It really seems like there are a lot of Remainers who are so bitter that would actually prefer the UK to go down the pan, rather than succeed, just so the can give it an "I told you so".  Selfish, small-minded, sore-losers.

The UK is leaving the EU.  Get used to it, and get on with it.
You got that backwards. We are watching in horror while the the UK brexiters, in complete denial, keep driving the country towards the cliff. Doesn't matter what it will cost as long as you get your way. So who's selfish?
 

Offline Delta

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1678 on: July 05, 2016, 07:32:49 pm »
The GBP has dropped -16.5% over the last year, currently lowest value in 31 years and falling...

FFS.

The big financial services dudes are not going to pack up and leave the City of London, exactly the same as they didn't when we chose to not join the Eurozone. 

It really seems like there are a lot of Remainers who are so bitter that would actually prefer the UK to go down the pan, rather than succeed, just so the can give it an "I told you so".  Selfish, small-minded, sore-losers.

The UK is leaving the EU.  Get used to it, and get on with it.
You got that backwards. We are watching in horror while the the UK brexiters, in complete denial, keep driving the country towards the cliff. Doesn't matter what it will cost as long as you get your way. So who's selfish?

It's not "my way", it's the way that majority of voters chose.  It's called democracy.  You will miss it when it's gone.....
 
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Offline mtdoc

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1679 on: July 05, 2016, 07:39:27 pm »
I'll just leave this here:

The Panic Will Start With Property

Quote
This tragedy has several stages. It began with hubris, “The masses won’t understand how we’ve shafted them” with the bank bailouts. Then David Cameron sets the stage for stupidity, “Let’s give the peasants a chance to upset our apple cart!” Followed by madness shouting, “We’ll have full access to the single market, outside the jurisdiction of the European Court, no payments to Brussels AND control of immigration!” It appears the mainstream still cling to denial. Let me explain why our beloved political mainstream and it’s shoddy EU project has lost it’s appeal. It’s because the mainstream is not moderate – and most Britons are moderate. There are real extremists in the political mainstream – they have power and they have abused it mightily.

Allowing the bankers to devastate the public accounts with bailouts and thereafter leaving these culprits completely unscathed was an extremist choice. Engineering the financial suffocation of the entire Greek population so as to crush a popular vote was an extremist choice. Removing elected prime ministers in Italy and Greece and replacing them with unelected functionaries was an extremist choice. Allowing over a million migrants in to Europe was an extremist choice. Wage suppression in Ireland was an extremist choice. Permitting Germany’s excessive trade surpluses whilst punishing everyone else’s budget deficits was an extremist choice. Pension cuts were an extremist choice. Mass unemployment was an extremist choice.

The reason these catastrophic choices were made was precisely because mainstream parties have colluded to keep these barbaric policies safe from electoral retribution by making them effectively bi-partisan or sealed off behind a treaty wall. The normal process whereby democracy flushes out bad policy (and bad policymakers) has been terminated. The mainstream deliberately locked the voter out.

“But all of this is just the price of globalisation,” sigh the well shod insiders. The masses were disrobed of agency to combat the ‘manifest destiny’ of the EU and globalisation. Now the insiders stand aside and watch in horror. The populists may have been made by the mainstream – but they clearly have no agency to unmake them now.…

Those hoping for a rational and indifferent divorce must have looked on in horror at the tragedy unfolding in the EU parliament – scenes of gloating and ridicule. There shall be no adolescent stage in this tragedy. Laughter that sounded so childish was baptized by a kiss of death. We have witnessed attitudes harden, “The City, which thanks to the EU, was able to handle clearing operations for the eurozone, will not be able to do them,” the French President said. “It can serve as an example for those who seek the end of Europe?.?.?.?It can serve as a lesson.” Ambitious people pursue opportunity rather than a place in the status qou. The talent in The City shall have no qualms in moving if income is elsewhere. You can write a contract under English law in Frankfurt or Paris just as well as in London. The immediate goal, it would seem, is to destroy the UK.

So Boris ‘the dog that caught the car’ scampers away. This is now Eastenders on acid … as project fear becomes project reality. And now, the stage is being prepared for the next act, will prices in the property market slump and crater the UK’s financial systems? The cracks have already begun to appear, two UK real estate funds — Aviva and Standard Life — have just halted redemptions as they were running out of cash due to large withdrawal demands. Perhaps regulators should have wondered how an open-ended fund — whereby retail investors can demand their money back at short notice — could work with assets like property that take much time to sell. And so the tragedy unfolds … though perhaps the politicians on the continent, that lust after revenge should first ask themselves, “Why did Britons vote to leave and can the panic be contained?”
 
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Offline Tepe

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1680 on: July 05, 2016, 07:56:58 pm »
The EU has allowed Germany to accomplish through association what it couldn't accomplish through force of arms.
Last time I checked the Federal Republic was still a healthy, democratic country.
ceterum censeo systemd-inem esse delendam
 
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Offline 3db

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1681 on: July 05, 2016, 07:59:53 pm »
I'll just leave this here:

The Panic Will Start With Property

Quote
This tragedy has several stages. It began with hubris, “The masses won’t understand how we’ve shafted them” with the bank bailouts. Then David Cameron sets the stage for stupidity, “Let’s give the peasants a chance to upset our apple cart!” Followed by madness shouting, “We’ll have full access to the single market, outside the jurisdiction of the European Court, no payments to Brussels AND control of immigration!” It appears the mainstream still cling to denial. Let me explain why our beloved political mainstream and it’s shoddy EU project has lost it’s appeal. It’s because the mainstream is not moderate – and most Britons are moderate. There are real extremists in the political mainstream – they have power and they have abused it mightily.

Allowing the bankers to devastate the public accounts with bailouts and thereafter leaving these culprits completely unscathed was an extremist choice. Engineering the financial suffocation of the entire Greek population so as to crush a popular vote was an extremist choice. Removing elected prime ministers in Italy and Greece and replacing them with unelected functionaries was an extremist choice. Allowing over a million migrants in to Europe was an extremist choice. Wage suppression in Ireland was an extremist choice. Permitting Germany’s excessive trade surpluses whilst punishing everyone else’s budget deficits was an extremist choice. Pension cuts were an extremist choice. Mass unemployment was an extremist choice.

The reason these catastrophic choices were made was precisely because mainstream parties have colluded to keep these barbaric policies safe from electoral retribution by making them effectively bi-partisan or sealed off behind a treaty wall. The normal process whereby democracy flushes out bad policy (and bad policymakers) has been terminated. The mainstream deliberately locked the voter out.

“But all of this is just the price of globalisation,” sigh the well shod insiders. The masses were disrobed of agency to combat the ‘manifest destiny’ of the EU and globalisation. Now the insiders stand aside and watch in horror. The populists may have been made by the mainstream – but they clearly have no agency to unmake them now.…

Those hoping for a rational and indifferent divorce must have looked on in horror at the tragedy unfolding in the EU parliament – scenes of gloating and ridicule. There shall be no adolescent stage in this tragedy. Laughter that sounded so childish was baptized by a kiss of death. We have witnessed attitudes harden, “The City, which thanks to the EU, was able to handle clearing operations for the eurozone, will not be able to do them,” the French President said. “It can serve as an example for those who seek the end of Europe?.?.?.?It can serve as a lesson.” Ambitious people pursue opportunity rather than a place in the status qou. The talent in The City shall have no qualms in moving if income is elsewhere. You can write a contract under English law in Frankfurt or Paris just as well as in London. The immediate goal, it would seem, is to destroy the UK.

So Boris ‘the dog that caught the car’ scampers away. This is now Eastenders on acid … as project fear becomes project reality. And now, the stage is being prepared for the next act, will prices in the property market slump and crater the UK’s financial systems? The cracks have already begun to appear, two UK real estate funds — Aviva and Standard Life — have just halted redemptions as they were running out of cash due to large withdrawal demands. Perhaps regulators should have wondered how an open-ended fund — whereby retail investors can demand their money back at short notice — could work with assets like property that take much time to sell. And so the tragedy unfolds … though perhaps the politicians on the continent, that lust after revenge should first ask themselves, “Why did Britons vote to leave and can the panic be contained?”

Exactly !! ,people panic.
It's a property fund assets of that type take a while to liquidate.
I don't know if the arrangements mean that investors actually lose their capitol.
The responsible thing to do is to protect all the investors by calling a halt to the panic withdrawals.

Are you related to Victor Meldrew ?   :D
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1682 on: July 05, 2016, 08:08:17 pm »
The responsible thing to do is to protect all the investors by calling a halt to the panic withdrawals.

I hope that isn't your take away message from the essay. If so, I think you've missed the point.
 

Offline 3db

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1683 on: July 05, 2016, 08:25:35 pm »
@mtdoc
I didn't miss any point.
The arguments given apply to EVERY western economy including the USA.
They completely ignore domestic political reality.
The whole capitalist system has been playing the same game.
They have all been printing money and lying to their citizens.
What's actually changed in the financial systems since the Banking/Insurance  fiasco ?
I actually saw it coming years before it was a no brainer.

 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1684 on: July 05, 2016, 08:40:14 pm »
@mtdoc
I didn't miss any point.
  :-+

Quote
The whole capitalist system neoliberal elites - financiers and politicians on the "right" and the "left" - have been playing the same game.
They have all been printing money and lying to their citizens.

There, fixed it for you.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1685 on: July 05, 2016, 10:13:31 pm »
@mtdoc
I didn't miss any point.
The arguments given apply to EVERY western economy including the USA.
They completely ignore domestic political reality.
The whole ******** system has been playing the same game.
They have all been printing money and lying to their citizens.
What's actually changed in the financial systems since the Banking/Insurance  fiasco ?
I actually saw it coming years before it was a no brainer.
Indeed, I saw it coming too, nobody needed a master in economics to see it.
and like it's said, it will strike again, a bit harder this time, and this is what will happen:

It really seems like there are a lot of Remainers who are so bitter that would actually prefer the UK to go down the pan, rather than succeed, just so the can give it an "I told you so".  Selfish, small-minded, sore-losers.
It will go down, just like the rest that went down last time, and they will blame the accumulated problems from the last +20 years on Brexit.
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline apis

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1686 on: July 05, 2016, 10:53:13 pm »
It will go down, just like the rest that went down last time, and they will blame the accumulated problems from the last +20 years on Brexit.
Kind of like how English politicians/tabloids have been blaming their accumulated problems from the last +20 years on EU and immigrants?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 11:05:39 pm by apis »
 

Offline 3db

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1687 on: July 05, 2016, 11:00:14 pm »
@mtdoc
I didn't miss any point.
  :-+

Quote
The whole capitalist system neoliberal elites - financiers and politicians on the "right" and the "left" - have been playing the same game.
They have all been printing money and lying to their citizens.

There, fixed it for you.

No you didn't fix it for me.
You "fixed it" in order to boost you own ego.
Smart arse   :-+
 

Offline MT

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1688 on: July 05, 2016, 11:56:19 pm »
That's why the US-UK relationship is special (in my mind). 

Yet the English once burned down the withehouse!

Quote
The UK always has our back (same with Australia and New Zealand).  The only 3 countries on the planet that we can count on.
So you dont trust the Canadians? They also have the same queen as the English.

Quote
Were it not for the US, you would be speaking German right now.  Don't forget it!

If you had read Europas history (you earlier mentioned you was not interested in history) you would have known that certain parts of Scandinavia always have been speaking German, its kind of a tradition among the Germanic languages. You are also speaking German you are just not aware of it! :)

Besides a traditional american misconception, actually Soviet liberated Europe!...Sort of.....well, one totalitarian idea for another...same Marx and Engels crap.

Quote
There is no credible counter-balance after the UK leaves.
NATO!
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 12:16:48 am by MT »
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1689 on: July 06, 2016, 01:26:00 am »
@mtdoc
I didn't miss any point.
  :-+

Quote
The whole capitalist system neoliberal elites - financiers and politicians on the "right" and the "left" - have been playing the same game.
They have all been printing money and lying to their citizens.

There, fixed it for you.

No you didn't fix it for me.
You "fixed it" in order to boost you own ego.
Smart arse   :-+

Just making an important distinction. The problem is not capitalism per say. It's a particular brand of capitalism -as in the Neoliberal -globalist version that's dominated the world for the past 3 decades that's the problem.

My ego is big enough already, thank you very much.. ;D
 

Offline 3db

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1690 on: July 06, 2016, 06:22:57 am »
@mtdoc
It's been going on for a lot longer than that.
 

Offline rch

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1691 on: July 06, 2016, 08:35:59 am »
And there isn't really a 'nice' kind of capitalism!
 

Offline apis

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1692 on: July 06, 2016, 10:03:55 am »
So CETA is not going to be bulldozed through by the commission after all, after pressure by France and Germany supposedly, and not all that surprising. What was surprising is that the commission declared they would just before the brexit referendum. I also find Obama's comment that 'the UK will be at the back of the queue' somewhat disingenuous. Makes one wonder.

Quote from: European Commission
Although from a strict legal standpoint, the Commission considers this agreement to fall under exclusive EU competence, Commissioner Malmström explained that the Commission has decided to propose CETA for signature as a mixed agreement which requires the consent of the European Parliament, and of all Member States through the relevant national ratification procedures. She called upon Member States who have all asked for this agreement and welcomed it, to show leadership by defending it in their parliaments and with citizens.
http://ec.europa.eu/news/2016/07/20160705_2_en.htm
 

Offline MT

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1693 on: July 06, 2016, 12:53:45 pm »
And there isn't really a 'nice' kind of capitalism!

Limiting of personal wealth to 1 million dollar as to put a wet cloth on wealth inequality? (Building car factories etc requires more i know, but anyway?)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 01:08:56 pm by MT »
 

Online rstofer

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1694 on: July 06, 2016, 03:07:21 pm »
The UK always has our back (same with Australia and New Zealand).  The only 3 countries on the planet that we can count on.
So you dont trust the Canadians? They also have the same queen as the English.

I had quite forgotten about the Canadians.  I should add them to the list.

Quote

Quote
Were it not for the US, you would be speaking German right now.  Don't forget it!

If you had read Europas history (you earlier mentioned you was not interested in history) you would have known that certain parts of Scandinavia always have been speaking German, its kind of a tradition among the Germanic languages. You are also speaking German you are just not aware of it! :)

It's been a long time since I was over there but I thought I noticed a difference between French and German.  And  French is the specific language I was talking about.  Yes, I realize that elements of the German language, indeed all languages, spill over into English.

I don't think I ever said anything about 'history'.  It's true that it is not a subject I give a rat's patoot about but my country wasn't decimated in two world wars although we did sustain massive casualties.  And, no, Russia had nothing to do with the western edge of Europe during WW II.  And the parts that they 'liberated' seem to have been swept up into their orbit.  Didn't they occupy east Germany for a while?  Seems like I read something about that in the papers.  Or maybe I was made aware of that when I was stationed in Germany in '66-'67.

Quote
Besides a traditional american misconception, actually Soviet liberated Europe!...Sort of.....well, one totalitarian idea for another...same Marx and Engels crap.

Quote
There is no credible counter-balance after the UK leaves.
NATO!

The UK is the big European force in NATO.  If the separation gets ugly, how much effort do you expect them to expend defending Europe?  By the time Parliament gets done debating, the war will be over. The US is getting weary of war, I wouldn't count on us either.  It concerns me that we are placing equipment (and troops?) in eastern Europe.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 03:09:14 pm by rstofer »
 

Online nctnico

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1695 on: July 06, 2016, 04:01:51 pm »
The UK is the big European force in NATO.  If the separation gets ugly, how much effort do you expect them to expend defending Europe?  By the time Parliament gets done debating, the war will be over. The US is getting weary of war, I wouldn't count on us either.  It concerns me that we are placing equipment (and troops?) in eastern Europe.
Do you really think the UK is the only European country with an army?  :palm: BTW Did you read the news today about the report about the UK's involvement in the war in Iraq and how it was completely unjustified?

Besides that who is going to invade Europe? That would be completely stupid because it will affect trade and thus injure the economy severely (Russia really isn't doing well because of the trade embargo). The biggest problem we currently have world wide are religious fanatics and civilian uprisings. Actually I can't really name two (or more) countries which are actively at war.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 04:03:54 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1696 on: July 06, 2016, 04:06:10 pm »
My ego is big enough already, thank you very much.. ;D

That's a good start. Next challenge is to make it more justified and less needy.
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1697 on: July 06, 2016, 04:24:17 pm »
Do you really think the UK is the only European country with an army?
Well, we are renting tanks from Germany, and we have a funding issues that live ammo practice is skipper...
Quote
Actually I can't really name two (or more) countries which are actively at war.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts
 

Offline zapta

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1698 on: July 06, 2016, 04:35:25 pm »
Limiting of personal wealth to 1 million dollar as to put a wet cloth on wealth inequality? (Building car factories etc requires more i know, but anyway?)

Let me guess, you have less than 1 million dollar.  ;-)
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline MT

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1699 on: July 06, 2016, 04:39:27 pm »
Limiting of personal wealth to 1 million dollar as to put a wet cloth on wealth inequality? (Building car factories etc requires more i know, but anyway?)
Let me guess, you have less than 1 million dollar.  ;-)
To the contrary but all is deposited in Panama accounts.. Are you still trying to comprehend the essence of George Orwell or do we have to explain that for the third time? ;-)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 01:14:19 pm by MT »
 


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