Poll

So, what you (UK) guys think? Exit or not to exit?

YES, please get me out of there (I'm UK) [go]
41 (19.5%)
Hell no, we are one big (happy) family! (I'm UK) [stay]
42 (20%)
OMG, let them Go! [go]
63 (30%)
I love the UK, they are family! [stay]
64 (30.5%)

Total Members Voted: 208

Voting closed: July 10, 2016, 10:29:34 am

Author Topic: UK forum members, BREXIT?  (Read 347146 times)

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Offline dannyf

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2075 on: July 13, 2016, 09:35:16 pm »
May is absolutely brilliant in giving that job to bj - I actually joked with friends that if I were to out together a cabinet, bj would be getting that job, for two reasons:

1. Bj is the face of brexit and there is no better and more deserving person to handle that hot potato.
2. Bj is going to screw it up and it would absolve Mays responsibility and potentially offer an option that's not otherwise available.

It is down right stupid for bj to take that job. You can write him off politically.

May is not your typical politician. She has the potential to be the next iron lady.
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2076 on: July 13, 2016, 10:21:02 pm »
May is absolutely brilliant in giving that job to bj - I actually joked with friends that if I were to out together a cabinet, bj would be getting that job, for two reasons:

1. Bj is the face of brexit and there is no better and more deserving person to handle that hot potato.
2. Bj is going to screw it up and it would absolve Mays responsibility and potentially offer an option that's not otherwise available.

It is down right stupid for bj to take that job. You can write him off politically.

May is not your typical politician. She has the potential to be the next iron lady.

Are you confusing the positions of foreign secretary (Alexander B de Peffel Johnson) and secretary of state for brexit (David Davies)?
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline 3db

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2077 on: July 14, 2016, 08:28:33 am »
"What has happened to "freedom of speech" in the west ?"

Alive and well, as long as your speech is approved by those in charge of freedom of speech.

That's a good one!

Give a man a fish, and he is fed for a day. But teach him how to fish, and he will never be hungry for the rest of his life.
But if you are lazy.
Light a fire for a man, and he is warm for a day. But set him on fire, and he will be very warm, for the rest of his life.

Brilliant !!   :-DD
 

Offline MK14

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2078 on: July 14, 2016, 09:21:40 am »
"What has happened to "freedom of speech" in the west ?"

Alive and well, as long as your speech is approved by those in charge of freedom of speech.

That's a good one!

Give a man a fish, and he is fed for a day. But teach him how to fish, and he will never be hungry for the rest of his life.
But if you are lazy.
Light a fire for a man, and he is warm for a day. But set him on fire, and he will be very warm, for the rest of his life.

Brilliant !!   :-DD

I'm glad you liked it  :)

But I feel a bit guilty. I think its origins are from Terry Pratchett.
http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2015/03/30-terry-pratchett-quotes-to-guide-you-through-life

I really like this one as well:

Quote
• Light thinks it travels faster than anything, but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.


The latest news seems to confirm the theories/concept about a second referendum, I mentioned above.

So during a separate vote and/or general election, something like the following might end up happening:

Quote
Labour leadership contender Owen Smith wants a second public vote to approve any Brexit deal the UK strikes with the EU, according to a newspaper.

Source:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36792176

So we may see an extra referendum and/or voting concepts, to modify the direction of Brexit. But it is early days yet.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 09:32:01 am by MK14 »
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2079 on: July 14, 2016, 09:43:12 am »
I'm hoping (and believing) stability returns now that a new team is in place.

I don't think there will be a new referendum.
The only *odd* scenario I can think of is this:
"The gouvernement falls, a new general election is held, and a party that has Stay as agenda point wins."

Otherwise, the new leadership will execute the Exit agenda, as they indicate.
And my bet is that we'll end up with a result that's honourable for all parties. In the end we all want what's best. Because when UK has a good deal, that's beneficial for EU, and vice-versa.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2080 on: July 14, 2016, 10:18:20 am »
Judging by the reaction from around the world reported in http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-36790977 [1], it is clear that May is successfully projecting a 21st century image of the UK around the world.

[1]"Apparently stifling a laugh on hearing the news of Mr Johnson's new job, [USA] state department spokesman Mark Toner says ...",
"The German journalist Laura Schneider points to a certain amount of mirth on television as presenters announce Mr Johnson's new role."
"The former prime minister of Sweden, Carl Bildt, tweets that he wishes the appointment were a joke."
etc
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2081 on: July 14, 2016, 11:25:39 am »
Quote
Tons of clips. CBS good enough for you.

The intelligence (or lack of) of that reporter in the first video is sad, to say the least. Her inability to come back with a better argument, other than "that's absurd", is pathetic.

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Offline 3db

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2082 on: July 14, 2016, 12:11:05 pm »
Judging by the reaction from around the world reported in http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-36790977 [1], it is clear that May is successfully projecting a 21st century image of the UK around the world.

[1]"Apparently stifling a laugh on hearing the news of Mr Johnson's new job, [USA] state department spokesman Mark Toner says ...",
"The German journalist Laura Schneider points to a certain amount of mirth on television as presenters announce Mr Johnson's new role."
"The former prime minister of Sweden, Carl Bildt, tweets that he wishes the appointment were a joke."
etc

Boris is no fool.
He's a very smart operator
The fact that he has been appointed shows the support he has from Tory MP's
Perhaps those who ranted about Boris post brexit can understand why he reacted as he did when Gove stabbed him in the back.
Gove was always the sacrificial goat.
Who gives a shit about the media.
I think May has made some good choices that strike a balance between the unity of her MP's and the task of managing our future outside the EU. 





 
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Online Kjelt

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2083 on: July 14, 2016, 12:38:34 pm »
The one (with real power): "So who's going to run for PM and lead the next cabinet? We all know it is going to fail after the brexit deals have gone bad"
BJ:" I don't want to fail my first time so I take the next cabinet, thank you"
Farage:"I want my life back, back to the time I was earning big amounts of money"
The one: "ok then let's get a woman to do it this time,  let her fail"
others: "brilliant!"
BJ:" Can I have some paid job so I am still in the news now and then and can run for PM next time so it won't be conspicious?"
The one: yeah yeah but first let's find the fall-girl .......
 :popcorn:

 

Offline Kalvin

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2084 on: July 14, 2016, 01:06:44 pm »
She is not stupid. The people of the UK has spoken, and she will just execute their will. Not a big deal. She cannot be blamed if the Brexit turns out to be a catastrophe as the people of the UK has specifically asked for it. If there is a need for the Parliament to approve the Article 50 and the Parliament doesn't approve it, she will be off the hook and she can blame it for the Parliament. If the Parliament approves the Article 50, she will just trigger Article 50 and the negotiations will start and the voters will just love it. It will take at least two years before the negotiations are completed, maybe three to five years in practice, so there will be new elections for the Parliament before the the process is completed. She will not get the blame if the Brexit is a disaster - the next PM will get a hot potato in his/her hands, though. If the Brexit turns out to be a success for UK, she will get the glory. For her, the situation is neutral-win - situation.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 01:23:30 pm by Kalvin »
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2085 on: July 14, 2016, 01:09:23 pm »
Quote
It will take at least two years before the negotiations are completed,

I think it is UPTO two years, unless both sides extend.

So that "two year period"  could be as short as a day.
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2086 on: July 14, 2016, 01:09:37 pm »
Judging by the reaction from around the world reported in http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-36790977 [1], it is clear that May is successfully projecting a 21st century image of the UK around the world.

[1]"Apparently stifling a laugh on hearing the news of Mr Johnson's new job, [USA] state department spokesman Mark Toner says ...",
"The German journalist Laura Schneider points to a certain amount of mirth on television as presenters announce Mr Johnson's new role."
"The former prime minister of Sweden, Carl Bildt, tweets that he wishes the appointment were a joke."
etc

Boris is no fool.
He's a very smart operator
The fact that he has been appointed shows the support he has from Tory MP's
Perhaps those who ranted about Boris post brexit can understand why he reacted as he did when Gove stabbed him in the back.
Gove was always the sacrificial goat.
Who gives a shit about the media.
I think May has made some good choices that strike a balance between the unity of her MP's and the task of managing our future outside the EU.

I don't care about the media. I do care about the people de Peffell will be talking to, e.g. Mark Toner's bosses (qv). Those people won't be able to get that image out of their mind.

Having the approval of Tory MPs isn't exactly a recommendation; most of them can be extraordinarily bone-headed at time.

As for de Pfeffel being smart and not a fool, that's open to question. There's plenty of evidence that he is a loose cannon, and that's not a good starting point w.r.t. delicate negotiations.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2087 on: July 14, 2016, 01:11:37 pm »
The people of the UK has spoken, and she will just execute their will. Not a big deal. She cannot be blamed if the Brexit turns out to be a catastrophe as the people of the UK has specifically asked for it.

Our politicians should be leaders of public opinion, not followers of public opinion.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Kalvin

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2088 on: July 14, 2016, 01:16:35 pm »
Quote
It will take at least two years before the negotiations are completed,

I think it is UPTO two years, unless both sides extend.

So that "two year period"  could be as short as a day.

At least two years but it can be extended, thus it cannot be shortened from the two years minimum - as I understand it.

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_the_European_Union
 

Offline Kalvin

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2089 on: July 14, 2016, 01:20:10 pm »
The people of the UK has spoken, and she will just execute their will. Not a big deal. She cannot be blamed if the Brexit turns out to be a catastrophe as the people of the UK has specifically asked for it.

Our politicians should be leaders of public opinion, not followers of public opinion.

Do not forget that the people voting for the Brexit were led by the politicians from the Brexit camp.
 

Offline Kalvin

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2090 on: July 14, 2016, 01:57:19 pm »
As Andy McCoy would say: "Sun täytyy varoo mitä sä haluut, koska sä voit saada sen" ie. "You have to be careful what you wish for, as you might get it."
 

Offline doobedoobedo

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2091 on: July 14, 2016, 02:41:31 pm »
As Andy McCoy would say: "Sun täytyy varoo mitä sä haluut, koska sä voit saada sen" ie. "You have to be careful what you wish for, as you might get it."
And all the people who voted remain thankfully dodged that bullet.
 

Offline 3db

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2092 on: July 14, 2016, 02:52:44 pm »
Judging by the reaction from around the world reported in http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-36790977 [1], it is clear that May is successfully projecting a 21st century image of the UK around the world.

[1]"Apparently stifling a laugh on hearing the news of Mr Johnson's new job, [USA] state department spokesman Mark Toner says ...",
"The German journalist Laura Schneider points to a certain amount of mirth on television as presenters announce Mr Johnson's new role."
"The former prime minister of Sweden, Carl Bildt, tweets that he wishes the appointment were a joke."
etc

Boris is no fool.
He's a very smart operator
The fact that he has been appointed shows the support he has from Tory MP's
Perhaps those who ranted about Boris post brexit can understand why he reacted as he did when Gove stabbed him in the back.
Gove was always the sacrificial goat.
Who gives a shit about the media.
I think May has made some good choices that strike a balance between the unity of her MP's and the task of managing our future outside the EU.

I don't care about the media. I do care about the people de Peffell will be talking to, e.g. Mark Toner's bosses (qv). Those people won't be able to get that image out of their mind.

Having the approval of Tory MPs isn't exactly a recommendation; most of them can be extraordinarily bone-headed at time.

As for de Pfeffel being smart and not a fool, that's open to question. There's plenty of evidence that he is a loose cannon, and that's not a good starting point w.r.t. delicate negotiations.


Do you have any idea how real politics works ?  :palm:
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2093 on: July 14, 2016, 04:19:45 pm »
Keep your friends close, your enemies closer!
Look what Obama did with Clinton in the first evolution.  He made her SoS so he could keep an eye on her!
 

Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2094 on: July 14, 2016, 06:21:55 pm »
Quote
It will take at least two years before the negotiations are completed,

I think it is UPTO two years, unless both sides extend.

So that "two year period"  could be as short as a day.

At least two years but it can be extended, thus it cannot be shortened from the two years minimum - as I understand it.

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_the_European_Union

No, it's up to two years from time of formal notification, but can be shorter or longer by agreement. Typical EU bureaucratic design :)

Quote
The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of [..] the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2
Bob
"All you said is just a bunch of opinions."
 

Offline bitslice

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2095 on: July 14, 2016, 08:44:58 pm »
Our president for example keeps denying the link between Islam and the current wave of global terrorism, and when the French president once mentioned Islamic terrorists, it was censored on the White House's web site.

The problem is that this generation of Liberal "thinking" is staggeringly naive  :scared:

Obama is trying to make muslims not feel like victims all the time, like if you beat a dog eventually he's going to bite back. So by treating their religion with what he thinks of as respect, he's hoping that they will stop holding such a negative view of the West.
Meanwhile the entire muslim world is quietly carrying on its side quest for Islamic rule, either by direct violence or by passive non-disagreement with ISIS's aims.

Unfortunately, until politicians finally recognise that violence is at the core of this religion, then they will continue treating them like nothing more than angry Methodists, and every foothold they get into Europe and America is another nail in our coffin.

Unless (like all the Progressive Liberals out there), people actually imagine power sharing with a political theocracy is going to go well for them :palm:
If so, History clearly wasn't their strong point.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 08:46:35 pm by bitslice »
 

Offline bitslice

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2096 on: July 14, 2016, 09:28:43 pm »
If the UK and US had listened to the UN and not invaded Iraq we wouldn't have had this problem to begin with.

Not really,
the UN had already unanimously passed Resolution 1441. "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations"

The only reason that did not technically sanction war was the stronger wording of previous resolutions, so the eighteenth resolution was proposed with majority UN member support, but then withdrawn because France decided it wasn't going to support a deadline.

Iraq continued to dick everyone around until Bush decided to pull the trigger on going to war.
Your suggestion that this was wholly against the will of the UN is misleading.

What caused the current hell in the middle east is mainly the Iraq war.

Not really,
unless you want to go back to the formation of Israel.

The background to most of this was the Iranian Islamic revolution, where once again muslims decide that a violent theocracy is the way forward for the world and instigated the rebirth of political Islam.

Iraq's fear of a Shia insurgency then led to the Iran-Iraq war and the development of chemical weapons. The same chemical weapons that led to the later invasion by the US/UK.

Christian mobs burned down the library of Alexandria

Not really,
yes the Crusaders burned a few muslim books, however the entirety of the contents were lost when the muslims invaded Constantinople in 1453.
Which is somewhat academic considering the library was actually founded by the Christian, Constantius II, primarily so the works of Greek literature could be preserved.

It was probably Caesar's troops that accidentally burnt it down, or maybe Caliph Omar.

If the muslims didn't see fit to preserve their own history and left it up to a Christian to do it for them, then hard cheese if the Crusaders come along later and burn the lot.
It's not like ISIS are any different in their attitude to preserving the history of islam.

Let me translate that sign for you: "with the people, for the fatherland".

"Fosterland" translates as Motherland doesn't it?  Which lacks any Nazi associations I think.

You have not heard of the bombing and massacre in Norway 5 years ago by a right wing extremist?

Which was merely a reaction to muslim immigration, if you weren't importing an alien culture then it wouldn't have happened. If you change a society overnight and then suppress all opposition to it, then expect a violent reaction.
Muslim terrorism is inevitably down to something happening thousands of miles away, entirely because they all consider themselves one big psychotic family.
You don't get Methodists beheading people when someone sniggers at their Bible do you?

The EU asylum seekers need to be distributed fairly and evenly among all the member states

Why? Why make people travel 5000km instead of simply walking next door to the refugee camps in Lebanon, waiting a year or so, then go back home and carry on?
Why is Sweden's solution the best one for dealing with this, when it's kind of obvious that it has directly precipitated Brexit and created a social nightmare for Sweden for decades to come.
Name one country (other than Sweden) on the entire planet that wishes it had accepted more muslims.
Nope, nobody, nada, no one - because everyone else is pointing at Sweden and saying "WTF  were they thinking.... :scared:"
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 10:41:30 pm by bitslice »
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2097 on: July 14, 2016, 10:07:29 pm »
The people of the UK has spoken, and she will just execute their will. Not a big deal. She cannot be blamed if the Brexit turns out to be a catastrophe as the people of the UK has specifically asked for it.

Our politicians should be leaders of public opinion, not followers of public opinion.

Do not forget that the people voting for the Brexit were led by the politicians from the Brexit camp.

Just so.

I don't know of anything that can prevent people being led to their doom, especially if the leaders really do believe they are going in the right direction. Some of the Brexit leaders did believe that.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Delta

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2098 on: July 14, 2016, 10:46:25 pm »
The people of the UK has spoken, and she will just execute their will. Not a big deal. She cannot be blamed if the Brexit turns out to be a catastrophe as the people of the UK has specifically asked for it.

Our politicians should be leaders of public opinion, not followers of public opinion.

Do not forget that the people voting for the Brexit were led by the politicians from the Brexit camp.

Just so.

I don't know of anything that can prevent people being led to their doom, especially if the leaders really do believe they are going in the right direction. Some of the Brexit leaders did believe that.

Seriously mate, get over it.  We are leaving the EU.  Life as you know it is not going to end, no matter how much you appear to wish for it. 

Every post from you is pure scaremongering, fortunately the reality is quite different.

Genuine question:  Do you hope Brexit is a success or a failure?
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #2099 on: July 14, 2016, 10:53:36 pm »
The people of the UK has spoken, and she will just execute their will. Not a big deal. She cannot be blamed if the Brexit turns out to be a catastrophe as the people of the UK has specifically asked for it.

Our politicians should be leaders of public opinion, not followers of public opinion.

Do not forget that the people voting for the Brexit were led by the politicians from the Brexit camp.

Just so.

I don't know of anything that can prevent people being led to their doom, especially if the leaders really do believe they are going in the right direction. Some of the Brexit leaders did believe that.

Seriously mate, get over it.  We are leaving the EU.  Life as you know it is not going to end, no matter how much you appear to wish for it. 

Every post from you is pure scaremongering, fortunately the reality is quite different.

Excellent. Now all you have to do is prove your assertion.

Quote
Genuine question:  Do you hope Brexit is a success or a failure?

Stupid question. There will be winners and losers. What I hope is irrelevant.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 


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