Author Topic: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage  (Read 1553 times)

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Offline MrMobodiesTopic starter

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UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« on: September 24, 2023, 08:48:44 pm »
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/09/01/property-owners-failing-comply-new-energy-rules-face-prison/
Quote
Property owners who don’t comply with new energy rules may face prison
Ministers want to grant powers to create new criminal offences and increase penalties as part of efforts to hit net zero targets

By Nick Gutteridge,
POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT and
Amy Gibbons 1 September 2023 • 8:00pm

Property owners who fail to comply with new energy efficiency rules could face prison under government plans that have sparked a backlash from Tory MPs.

Ministers want to grant themselves powers to create new criminal offences and increase civil penalties as part of efforts to hit net zero targets. Under the proposals, people who fall foul of regulations to reduce their energy consumption could face up to a year in prison and fines of up to £15,000. Tory backbenchers are set to rebel against the plans, which they fear would lead to the criminalisation of homeowners, landlords and businesses.

The proposals are contained in the Government’s controversial Energy Bill, which is set to come before the Commons for the first time when MPs return from their summer break on Tuesday. It provides for “the creation of criminal offences” where there is “non-compliance with a requirement imposed by or under energy performance regulations”. People could also be prosecuted for “provision of false information” about energy efficiency or the “obstruction of… an enforcement authority”.

The Bill will replace and strengthen the rules on energy performance certificates (EPCs), which were previously based on now repealed EU law. A Government spokesman said: “We have no plans to create new criminal offences, and any suggestion otherwise is untrue. “Energy certificate legislation originated in EU laws, and our amendments ensure landlords, businesses and tenants are provided with the information they need to make their own decisions on energy efficiency in their buildings.” Officials suggested the Government required such powers to amend criminal offences that already exist under the current regime. Ministers are giving themselves broad umbrella powers to redraw and enforce the system before consulting on precisely which changes to make. Tory MPs have expressed alarm that ministers would be able to create new offences with limited parliamentary scrutiny under the update.

Craig Mackinlay, the head of the Net Zero Scrutiny Group, has tabled an amendment to strip the “open-ended and limitless” powers out of the legislation. He told The Telegraph: “The Bill is festooned with new criminal offences. This is just unholy, frankly, that you could be creating criminal offences “The ones we’ve found most offensive are where a business owner could face a year in prison for not having the right energy performance certificate or type of building certification.”

Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg, a former energy secretary, said the proposed use of statutory instruments to create new offences was unacceptable, adding: “Criminal offences are an exceptional use of the state’s power and therefore require the fullest constitutional scrutiny. “The whole Bill is about piling costs onto consumers. It’s as if Uxbridge and the vote against Ulez had never taken place.” Whilst such statutory instruments do have to be approved by the Commons, they are typically nodded through and not a single one has failed to pass in the last 35 years.

Sir John Redwood, the Tory MP for Wokingham, said the powers were “over the top” and a  “clumsy intervention” to try and force through net zero, adding: “It’s entirely the wrong way around. If you want to speed up progress on energy efficiency, then you should do it via grants and assistance. “People are in the best position to judge their own houses, and you need to give them a helping hand rather than threaten them with action.”

The Department for Energy Security and Net Zero has been approached for comment.
Related Topics
Net Zero, Conservative Party, Jacob Rees-Mogg
Absolutely disgusting and makes me feel sick and it's not often I feel sick with the prospect of my life as I know it taken away from me with all my belongings that I have collected over the years and going to jail.

Shocked this is even been not just put forward but even spoken about.

If they jail and dispose of someone's personal things because they don't meet the goalposts they set, no reason why the same can't happen to those pushing for it.

Also this is why I am skeptical about "smart" meters that could tell them everything and make it possible to fine people who use energy at certain times like peak times.

When I moved away from South East London about 4 years ago just before the covid lock down, it wasn't so much the traffic (which did increase) and the noise but the airplanes in the day, 3 to 5 a minute whizzing around in the sky in circles flying low because there were no where for them to land and had to wait until they the runways became free. On my chairs and tables there was this black suit substance covering it that I have never seen before and I read other people complaining at the time and told to complain to their MP.

Maybe they should go after the airports/operators too who whizz around the place in circles and pollute the cities even more and also the police helicopters that were flying excessively around the area all night long till the early houses of the morning.

What do you think?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 09:21:49 pm by MrMobodies »
 

Offline themadhippy

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2023, 09:06:51 pm »
keep up ole boy,that article is nearly a month old , soonsacked has already announced he plans to water the bill down.Of course if it was to pass intact he'd have to explain the heating of his  private swimming pool that required an upgrade to his local electrical grid 
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2023, 09:10:21 pm »
What do you think?
UK is turning into a woke postmodernist neomarxist hellhole, just like Canada did.
Just look up how many people they jailed for social media posts.
Time to get out or get the torches and pitchfork.
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2023, 09:23:59 pm »
It is coming everywhere.
Next will be eating meat.
 

Offline Benta

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2023, 09:26:33 pm »
Please explain the electronics relevance here.   :-//
 
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Offline MrMobodiesTopic starter

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2023, 09:45:25 pm »
Please explain the electronics relevance here.   :-//

I thought it was relevant because it is about energy consumption and the relevance here is how this is going to be made possible (I suspect through the use of smart meters) and inspections and the energy efficiency rules that they may impose over appliances like from the old epv ratings. I wanted to know what you think your thoughts.

If you think it is not appropriate then I'll delete the thread.

Shall I delete the thread?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 09:58:22 pm by MrMobodies »
 

Offline John B

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2023, 10:08:24 pm »
Every so often I try to weigh up the economics of decentralising home power, ie a semi off the grid system that can still function independently of the power grid if needed for basic services. Major urban centres make the least sense because the grid is usually very reliable.

However in the past couple of years I've had to add the fascism aspect into the equation, as it's becoming apparent that any of your equipment which is either monitored or worse able to be controlled by an outside entity is going to be a liability.
 
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Offline MrMobodiesTopic starter

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2023, 10:21:32 pm »
We do have a solar panel/battery grid tie inverter. It does have a 6kw output for when there is no grid power that will continue to provide power from the batteries. I wanted them to run an armored cable in the ground from the inverter to the house to hook up to a fuse box to some plugs.

The problem from what I was told was that that output did not comply with regulations something to do with earthing and that they were trying to work on this "earthing rod" solution but haven't hear back about since.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 10:25:14 pm by MrMobodies »
 

Offline Benta

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2023, 10:36:17 pm »
I thought it was relevant because it is about energy consumption and the relevance here is how this is going to be made possible (I suspect through the use of smart meters) and inspections and the energy efficiency rules that they may impose over appliances like from the old epv ratings.
That's not what I read. I only see UK whining. So why do you keep electing those morons? We can't help anymore. Just "Take back control."   :-DD
« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 10:38:54 pm by Benta »
 
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Offline themadhippy

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2023, 10:50:29 pm »
Quote
The problem from what I was told was that that output did not comply with regulations something to do with earthing and that they were trying to work on this "earthing rod" solution but haven't hear back about since
Translated that means we cant be bothered with anything thats not run of the mill.
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2023, 10:53:29 pm »
We do have a solar panel/battery grid tie inverter. It does have a 6kw output for when there is no grid power that will continue to provide power from the batteries. I wanted them to run an armored cable in the ground from the inverter to the house to hook up to a fuse box to some plugs.

The problem from what I was told was that that output did not comply with regulations something to do with earthing and that they were trying to work on this "earthing rod" solution but haven't hear back about since.

Question: let's say you completely disconnect your house from the grid and build your own installation (with solar panels for instance) distributing power ONLY via DC <= 48V, not using any inverter. (Yes that would mean not being able to use many appliances, but that's another question.) What would you be suject to in terms of regulation?
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2023, 10:54:06 pm »
Please explain the electronics relevance here.   :-//

I thought it was relevant because it is about energy consumption and the relevance here is how this is going to be made possible (I suspect through the use of smart meters) and inspections and the energy efficiency rules that they may impose over appliances like from the old epv ratings. I wanted to know what you think your thoughts.

If you think it is not appropriate then I'll delete the thread.

Shall I delete the thread?

The entire thread is guaranteed to be a political rat-hole.

What should happen to political threads on this forum?
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline MrMobodiesTopic starter

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2023, 10:57:04 pm »
The entire thread is guaranteed to be a political rat-hole.

What should happen to political threads on this forum?

Good point...  Okay, well let's discuss the technical side on how they may set out to achieve these targets and leave out any political arguments (amongst members please.)

Question: let's say you completely disconnect your house from the grid and build your own installation (with solar panels for instance) distributing power ONLY via DC <= 48V, not using any inverter. (Yes that would mean not being able to use many appliances, but that's another question.) What would you be suject to in terms of regulation?

I am worried about that too that it may not be appliances that are necessarily switched on and used but just being in possession of them that don't comply.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 11:02:21 pm by MrMobodies »
 

Offline Marco

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2023, 11:23:09 pm »
The bill includes no penalties for any specific thing, it allows penalties to be later defined for a set of violations, among which fraud and obstruction. Telegraph is stretching, they just wanted to torpedo a bill which would have forced energy conservation measures on slumlords.

Allowing criminal law to defacto be created by regulatory agencies on the one hand is a bit suspect, on the other it's common in say the US.

PS. I assumed this was in the renewable energy forum, though I see I assumed wrong.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 11:29:31 pm by Marco »
 
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Offline Simon

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Re: UK government to JAIL and fine people over energy usage
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2023, 11:30:38 pm »
Sorry, I don't have the time to explain the batshit bullshit conspiracy theory nonsense in this thread. Most of what dishi rishi came out with the other day is also all bullshit. A tax on meat abolished when there was never any such plan. He was simply pandering the the even more whako extreme right than the conservative party already is in a bid to attract votes. I'd even argue that this "article" was part of the plan, piss people off and then show how reasonable they are.

So sorry locked, and don't post any of this garbage again please.
 
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