General > General Technical Chat
UK internet censoring
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Zero999:

--- Quote from: Someone on July 08, 2023, 11:32:33 pm ---Oh wait, the UK is already moving on that for schools:
https://saferinternet.org.uk/guide-and-resource/teachers-and-school-staff/appropriate-filtering-and-monitoring/appropriate-filtering
and has been providing guidance for parents on that for a long time. If a parent chooses to let their kids loose unsupervised and unattended on the internet, they need to accept thats basically the same as letting them freely roam the city (including roads, and "adult" encounters). The reaction is not OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN*
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--- Quote ---Discrimination – Promotes the unjust or prejudicial treatment of people with protected characteristics of the Equality Act 2010
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Oh dear, anything which mentions the equality act makes me cringe. It's a terrible piece of legislation. The problem is, the protected characteristic religion, conflicts with sexual orientation and gender identity. Parts of the Quran and Bible are considered to be homophobic by many people, yet they can't be blocked, as it would discriminate against religions.


--- Quote from: james_s on July 10, 2023, 05:44:26 pm ---
--- Quote from: voltsandjolts on July 09, 2023, 12:42:49 pm ---I agree with you on that. If enough parents did this, new laws wouldn't be needed. Why are they not doing it? Technical incompetance, cost, or just don't care. I do know parents who only allow net access in a shared room of their house (corridor or living room), to have some oversight, but were unaware of commercial filtered internet options.

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It doesn't matter why, that is up to the individual parents. It isn't your, my or the government's responsibility to do the parent's job for them, it's something the individual parents need to figure out how to do themselves. That's just part of what being a parent is.

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The only law I would be in favour of is Internet service providers and mobile phone companies being made to ask whether anyone under the age of 18 will be using their service and if so, providing parental controls to the person who pays for it by default. As I said it's not supposed to be about protecting children though, but everyone, which I call BS on. It's just a power grab by the state.
tggzzz:

--- Quote from: Zero999 on July 10, 2023, 05:09:54 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 10, 2023, 12:27:05 am ---
--- Quote from: coppice on July 09, 2023, 09:23:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on July 09, 2023, 09:15:22 pm ---I believe this thread relates to a piece of legislation known as the online harms bill. It's not specifically about protecting children, but targetting harmful content. This can be anything from misinformation, to blogs relating to suicide. The problem is, what's harmful, is open to interpretation and more often than not, we don't know what is misinformation, when we don't know the truth.

Handing the power to decide what is harmful and fact from fiction to a central body, especially the government, is dangerous because it will make said organisation very powerful. Heck, the authorities in this country have been guilty of spreading misinformation and dangerous content, especially over the last two years.

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The government is normally the bad guy. If it doesn't appear to be in some area today, give it some time, and see how it works out. Nobody who can escape the consequences of their actions stays a good guy for long, and those in government are almost totally immune.

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We can kick out the government. We can't kick out the corporations.

That alone means the corporations are more insidiously dangerous in the long term.
Add that the corporations are the ones creating products specifically designed to amplify Tom Dick and Harriets nonsensical and paranoid ramblings.
Overall the unaccountable and untouchable corporations are, in the long term, more dangerous than any Western government.

Mind you, recent UK governments have been eroding that difference - but the current mob will largely disappear in 2024.

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On what information do we elect our government on? In the past it was the press, radio and TV, but now it's increasingly online. If we allow the government to censor the Internet, then it will interfere with democracy.

--- End quote ---

...and vice versa.


--- Quote ---Also note there's very little difference between the Labour and Conservative parties, especially since Brexit. I very much doubt things would be any different now, if Labour had been in power for the last 5 years. This country has been in decline for the last decade and nothing will change as long as we have Labour or the Conservatives in power.

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I predicted that frightening consequence of the brexit vote. I'm not clear whether I explicitly made the prediction shortly before or after the vote - either way "shortly" was hours or days, not weeks.

The consequence is that people will turn to anybody that proclaims "it isn't your fault and I have the answer to your problems". That's what happened in the Weimar Republic, and didn't that work well.
tggzzz:

--- Quote from: Zero999 on July 10, 2023, 05:09:54 pm ---Government policy has largely been responsible for the increase in online harm to children over the pandemic. Closing schools, children's clubs, cutting home visits by social workers have all created the ideal conditions for children to spend more time online, where they can be preyed on by nonces. If the government really cared about children, they would have adopted similar policies to Sweden, who kept everything going as normal, especially for children.

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Ah. Someone viewing the world through blinkers supplied by conspiracy theorists.

Plonk.
Zero999:

--- Quote from: coppice on July 10, 2023, 05:34:08 pm ---
--- Quote from: Bryn on July 10, 2023, 05:27:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on July 10, 2023, 05:09:54 pm ---This country has been in decline for the last decade and nothing will change as long as we have Labour or the Conservatives in power.
--- End quote ---
If Labour do come to power, they pledge to toughen up the shoddy bill, and make it closer to its original form before the Tories mucked it up for their own gain.

Speaking of internet censorship in the UK, anybody remember Theresa May's plan to lock down our internet North Korea-style, just to "combat" extremism? Thank god that didn't happen and she got a right good scolding for it.

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Nothing pricks the ears of an authoritarian more than a plausible justification for things they like. Whichever party they in, its only the control freaks who will be motivated enough to get their pet ideas into any oppressive legislation.


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True.


--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 10, 2023, 06:37:33 pm ---I predicted that frightening consequence of the brexit vote. I'm not clear whether I explicitly made the prediction shortly before or after the vote - either way "shortly" was hours or days, not weeks.

The consequence is that people will turn to anybody that proclaims "it isn't your fault and I have the answer to your problems". That's what happened in the Weimar Republic, and didn't that work well.
--- End quote ---
Brexit is not to blame for the majority oe our current problems. True, it hasn't been good, but it's responsible for less than 10% of the mess we're currently in.
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 10, 2023, 06:40:02 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on July 10, 2023, 05:09:54 pm ---Government policy has largely been responsible for the increase in online harm to children over the pandemic. Closing schools, children's clubs, cutting home visits by social workers have all created the ideal conditions for children to spend more time online, where they can be preyed on by nonces. If the government really cared about children, they would have adopted similar policies to Sweden, who kept everything going as normal, especially for children.

--- End quote ---

Ah. Someone viewing the world through blinkers supplied by conspiracy theorists.

Plonk.

--- End quote ---
You appear to be trolling now: no rebuttal, just insults.
tggzzz:

--- Quote from: james_s on July 10, 2023, 05:39:19 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on July 10, 2023, 08:32:34 am ---Installing a firewall simply doesn't work. Evidence: China's great wall, and the general impracticality of filtering "good" from "bad".

The "cookie fiasco" isn't bad: it viscerally shows you how you are being traded across many companies. That, plus "no javascript" plugins make people realise why there are farcebook and twatter logos on many web pages. That's basic survival information for, say, those unfortunate to be based in countries where religious zealots attempt to control how you use bits of your body.

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Well what do you suppose this internet censoring will do that a firewall won't? People will get around any kind of limitations put in place if they really want to.

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That's a strawman argument. I have never given any indication I think the problem can be solved.

In fact I have indicated the opposite - it is like the undecideable art-vs-pornography problem - and hence technology cannot solve the unsolvable problem.
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