Author Topic: UK internet censoring  (Read 12214 times)

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Offline james_s

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #75 on: July 11, 2023, 09:07:03 pm »
I find it odd that we must protect children from the very thing that created them. Meanwhile, it's OK to show violence in cartoons and even let children play with toy guns.

I see no issue with that at all. Violence in cartoons is not realistic at all, I certainly watched a lot of cartoons when I was a kid and that never translated into violence to me. I played with toy guns a lot too and also that never turned into real violence. Young kids don't need to know anything about sex, there's just no reason for it, and there isn't that same boundary between real life and play.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #76 on: July 11, 2023, 09:41:01 pm »
My daughter found one of those in a local bookshop when she was slightly "too young", i.e. about 7. I tried and failed to deflect her by pointing out other books on her traditional favourite subjects, to no avail.
The book I read didn't present it in a sexual way, the pictures were labeled so that a medical student can identify the different parts.

The book my daughter discovered (and I bought) was solely sexual.

Example: one diagram was a cross-section through a copulating couple.

Frankly that sounds like a parenting failure to me. The child is 7, the fact that you tried and failed to redirect her doesn't make much sense to me, you are the parent, you are the law, all you have to do is say "no, that's not appropriate for you at this age" and that should be that, case closed, there is no negotiating.

Oh riiiight.

Teach her not to be curious.

Teach her not to find answers by reading.

Teach her to deviously hide things from me.

Teach her that sex is a disgusting subject.

Teach her to be ashamed of asking questions and having independent thoughts.

Teach her that I'm not interested in what she is thinking.

Teach her that "might is right" rather than "right because reason X".

Good parenting... Not!

It was a good book. I was delighted she had found it and was fascinated by the subject. That's why I bought it for her so she could continue reading it at her leisure.

It paid dividends. Three years later she wanted chickens as pets. I didn't, and raised all sorts of objections. She went and did the research online, and countered every one of my objections with solid arguments. That delighted me, and I agreed we could have them. She specified what was needed in  a coop and enclosure, and we built one together. Over the next six years she used her chickens as a spring board for learning all sorts of skills that we never anticipated.

More recently she has used those attitudes and skills to successfully start her own business. She's even been invited to demonstrate to others that how it is possible to start their own business.

But I suppose you think that, because I didn't want something, I should have been "a good parent" by stomping on her interests and ambitions.

If letting her read that book was a parenting failure, IMNSHO the world would be a better place if more parents failed.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2023, 09:48:37 pm by tggzzz »
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Offline Someone

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #77 on: July 11, 2023, 09:56:00 pm »
My daughter found one of those in a local bookshop when she was slightly "too young", i.e. about 7. I tried and failed to deflect her by pointing out other books on her traditional favourite subjects, to no avail.
The book I read didn't present it in a sexual way, the pictures were labeled so that a medical student can identify the different parts.
The book my daughter discovered (and I bought) was solely sexual.

Example: one diagram was a cross-section through a copulating couple.
Frankly that sounds like a parenting failure to me. The child is 7, the fact that you tried and failed to redirect her doesn't make much sense to me, you are the parent, you are the law, all you have to do is say "no, that's not appropriate for you at this age" and that should be that, case closed, there is no negotiating.
This is the person who tried to argue flood defences are a bad and evil thing as a hypothetical malevolent operator could use such defences to instead create floods:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/tidal-lagoon-energy-from-the-ocean-uk-gov-is-putting-money-in-it/msg632713/#msg632713

I'd agree and classify the person as disingenuous and a bad influence on society (and therefore their children). A simple substitution of another book that matches the Childs desires for choosing the inappropriate title should be relatively easy to construe, assuming a parent actually engages with their child and understands their motivations.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #78 on: July 11, 2023, 10:08:52 pm »
My daughter found one of those in a local bookshop when she was slightly "too young", i.e. about 7. I tried and failed to deflect her by pointing out other books on her traditional favourite subjects, to no avail.
The book I read didn't present it in a sexual way, the pictures were labeled so that a medical student can identify the different parts.
The book my daughter discovered (and I bought) was solely sexual.

Example: one diagram was a cross-section through a copulating couple.
Frankly that sounds like a parenting failure to me. The child is 7, the fact that you tried and failed to redirect her doesn't make much sense to me, you are the parent, you are the law, all you have to do is say "no, that's not appropriate for you at this age" and that should be that, case closed, there is no negotiating.
This is the person who tried to argue flood defences are a bad and evil thing as a hypothetical malevolent operator could use such defences to instead create floods:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/tidal-lagoon-energy-from-the-ocean-uk-gov-is-putting-money-in-it/msg632713/#msg632713

I'd agree and classify the person as disingenuous and a bad influence on society (and therefore their children). A simple substitution of another book that matches the Childs desires for choosing the inappropriate title should be relatively easy to construe, assuming a parent actually engages with their child and understands their motivations.

Wow.

One short post containing so many outright misrepresentations, strawman arguments, non-sequiteurs, and incorrect presumptions of understanding individuals and circumstances.

Quite an achievement.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline james_s

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #79 on: July 12, 2023, 03:20:13 am »
Oh riiiight.

Teach her not to be curious.

Teach her not to find answers by reading.

Teach her to deviously hide things from me.

Teach her that sex is a disgusting subject.

Teach her to be ashamed of asking questions and having independent thoughts.

Teach her that I'm not interested in what she is thinking.

Teach her that "might is right" rather than "right because reason X".

Good parenting... Not!

It was a good book. I was delighted she had found it and was fascinated by the subject. That's why I bought it for her so she could continue reading it at her leisure.

It paid dividends. Three years later she wanted chickens as pets. I didn't, and raised all sorts of objections. She went and did the research online, and countered every one of my objections with solid arguments. That delighted me, and I agreed we could have them. She specified what was needed in  a coop and enclosure, and we built one together. Over the next six years she used her chickens as a spring board for learning all sorts of skills that we never anticipated.

More recently she has used those attitudes and skills to successfully start her own business. She's even been invited to demonstrate to others that how it is possible to start their own business.

But I suppose you think that, because I didn't want something, I should have been "a good parent" by stomping on her interests and ambitions.

If letting her read that book was a parenting failure, IMNSHO the world would be a better place if more parents failed.

You are free to decide for yourself at what age it is appropriate to teach your child about various topics, that isn't really the issue. Personally I think 7 is too young to be taught about sex, they shouldn't be taught that it's dirty and disgusting, they simply don't really need to know about it at all, when I was 7 I only vaguely knew what sex was and I didn't care, I was busy being a kid. But like I said that isn't really the issue, the parenting failure here (which does not necessarily mean that you have failed overall as a parent) is succumbing  to the demands of a 7 year old after failing to direct them to something else. As a parent part of your job is to set reasonable and consistent rules and boundaries and stick to them, you can simply say "no" and that's that. You're the child's parent, not their friend.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #80 on: July 12, 2023, 04:41:31 am »
One aspect of Finnish culture I really like is the concept of Sauna.
It is a scrupulously clean place; like a surgery.  Just like in pre-teen kids' lives, there is no room in there for sex.
Even though families and friends typically bathe together nude, it's just nudity, explicitly non-sexual.
And it's perfectly okay to say that I am too shy to bathe nude in a mixed crowd: it just leads to a common decision whether to bathe by gender or not, and a friendly reminder that it's always okay to wrap yourself in a towel in sauna if you're shy.  At least in my circles!
It is very common for teens and young adults to be shy and picky about it, with small kids and older adults having more relaxed attitudes.  Hormones, perhaps?

I think this cultural aspect teaches kids at the emotional level that there is perfectly ordinary non-sexual nudity.

This gives a natural path to give kids the general outline of human biology, including procreation, while leaving the sexual activity aspects out of it, until they're old enough to understand.
 
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Offline Infraviolet

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #81 on: July 12, 2023, 05:44:46 am »
Is this an example of Young's law appearing?

"A culture which becomes more open about sexual topics becomes more censorious of everything else", after Toby Young, journalist at the Daily Sceptic?

To be quite honest I've always been a Victorian level prude when it comes to consideration of sex/nudity/... but I respect the importance of the rights of others to discuss them openly because I know that censorship is too damaging a tool to be acceptable even if I were to want the kind of things censors propose to censor to be censored.

The particularly weird thing about the Uk is that there are insane politicians*, both on the "progressive" and "reactionary" sides of the typical social debate, both pushing ahead for these horrific plans.

The answer must be open defiance by the public. And also a highlightingof the fact that the youth are cunning, and however much censorship is enacted someone will find a way past, and then tell all their mates, and if their mates can't understand how to bypass it for themselves they would end up with a sneaker-net of USB sticks with verboten content on them being passed around.

*either unaware of the damage censorship causes to society, especially the damage to the trustworthines of infrastructure itself when that censorship involves tampering with the technical underpinnings of the internet, or completely aware of it and desperate to censor nonetheless
« Last Edit: July 12, 2023, 05:57:18 am by Infraviolet »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #82 on: July 12, 2023, 05:51:23 am »
One aspect of Finnish culture I really like is the concept of Sauna.
It is a scrupulously clean place; like a surgery.  Just like in pre-teen kids' lives, there is no room in there for sex.
Even though families and friends typically bathe together nude, it's just nudity, explicitly non-sexual.
And it's perfectly okay to say that I am too shy to bathe nude in a mixed crowd: it just leads to a common decision whether to bathe by gender or not, and a friendly reminder that it's always okay to wrap yourself in a towel in sauna if you're shy.  At least in my circles!
It is very common for teens and young adults to be shy and picky about it, with small kids and older adults having more relaxed attitudes.  Hormones, perhaps?

I think this cultural aspect teaches kids at the emotional level that there is perfectly ordinary non-sexual nudity.

This gives a natural path to give kids the general outline of human biology, including procreation, while leaving the sexual activity aspects out of it, until they're old enough to understand.

I have no issue at all with non-sexual nudity, personally I prefer not to be nude around anyone that is not a romantic partner but I don't have an issue with whatever other people want to do. To me plain old nudity and sexual nudity are completely different things. Everybody has a set of naughty bits and there are only two varieties so there is no great secret there.
 

Offline Ranayna

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #83 on: July 12, 2023, 09:56:41 am »
This reminds me of how at the high school I went to, one of the biology books in the library has pictures of male and female private parts. (That's photographs, in addition to cross section drawings which are standard for such books.) I just kept it to myself and continued reading. In fairness, there are truly lots of books in any good sized library and it would be impractical to check each one for such "bad" pictures and words.

Looking back, it would have been fun to anonymously mention that such a book exists in the school library, then see how long it takes for it to be found. (That was before social media was a thing.) At the least, the librarian would be confused why there's suddenly a lot of students interested in books.
Heh... my biology textbook from around 1990 might actually get someone thrown in jail today. It had images of pre- and post puberty kids in it, to show the development.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #84 on: July 12, 2023, 10:17:19 am »
Oh riiiight.

Teach her not to be curious.

Teach her not to find answers by reading.

Teach her to deviously hide things from me.

Teach her that sex is a disgusting subject.

Teach her to be ashamed of asking questions and having independent thoughts.

Teach her that I'm not interested in what she is thinking.

Teach her that "might is right" rather than "right because reason X".

Good parenting... Not!

It was a good book. I was delighted she had found it and was fascinated by the subject. That's why I bought it for her so she could continue reading it at her leisure.

It paid dividends. Three years later she wanted chickens as pets. I didn't, and raised all sorts of objections. She went and did the research online, and countered every one of my objections with solid arguments. That delighted me, and I agreed we could have them. She specified what was needed in  a coop and enclosure, and we built one together. Over the next six years she used her chickens as a spring board for learning all sorts of skills that we never anticipated.

More recently she has used those attitudes and skills to successfully start her own business. She's even been invited to demonstrate to others that how it is possible to start their own business.

But I suppose you think that, because I didn't want something, I should have been "a good parent" by stomping on her interests and ambitions.

If letting her read that book was a parenting failure, IMNSHO the world would be a better place if more parents failed.

You are free to decide for yourself at what age it is appropriate to teach your child about various topics, that isn't really the issue. Personally I think 7 is too young to be taught about sex, they shouldn't be taught that it's dirty and disgusting, they simply don't really need to know about it at all,

You sound like an HR-droid that treats employees as resources rather than people.
Or a boss that thinks his minions should just obey commands and "don't need to know why".
Or maybe as someone who believes in strong religious doctrines.

She decided when it was appropriate for her. I was going to leave it another year or two, but she took the initiative.  That was fine, and the alternative would have been far far worse for the reasons I outlined above.

Things don't happen according to a fixed schedule. Everybody is individual, and that should be understood, accepted, and accomodated.

Many people thought 3yo was too young to learn to read. I didn't have any such preconceptions (of course), so asked my father to teach me and he did. Family lore is that I was reading the daily newspaper before I went to school. Some people thought that was wrong and that I should "just be a normal kid", which I presume means "be like I was".

Quote
when I was 7 I only vaguely knew what sex was and I didn't care, I was busy being a kid.

The same with me, but that's irrelevant.

My daughter is not me. She is an independent individual, and should be treated as such.

Quote
But like I said that isn't really the issue, the parenting failure here (which does not necessarily mean that you have failed overall as a parent) is succumbing  to the demands of a 7 year old after failing to direct them to something else. As a parent part of your job is to set reasonable and consistent rules and boundaries and stick to them, you can simply say "no" and that's that. You're the child's parent, not their friend.

Do you have children?

It sounds like you have read how to interact with young people from a textbook or newspaper.

Children are not - or should not be - submissive to their parents. They are young people and should be treated as you would treat other inexperienced people. That means
  • explaining and guiding, not forcing
  • allowing them to jump in at the deep end, but being there to make sure they don't sink. Including, depending on the child's personality, encouraging them to jump in at the deep end
  • giving information that is appropriate to their level of experience
« Last Edit: July 12, 2023, 10:58:06 am by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline .RC.

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #85 on: July 12, 2023, 10:22:22 am »
I shower in the nude.   Please do not judge me. :)
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #86 on: July 12, 2023, 10:25:44 am »
One aspect of Finnish culture I really like is the concept of Sauna.
It is a scrupulously clean place; like a surgery.  Just like in pre-teen kids' lives, there is no room in there for sex.
Even though families and friends typically bathe together nude, it's just nudity, explicitly non-sexual.
And it's perfectly okay to say that I am too shy to bathe nude in a mixed crowd: it just leads to a common decision whether to bathe by gender or not, and a friendly reminder that it's always okay to wrap yourself in a towel in sauna if you're shy.  At least in my circles!
It is very common for teens and young adults to be shy and picky about it, with small kids and older adults having more relaxed attitudes.  Hormones, perhaps?

I think this cultural aspect teaches kids at the emotional level that there is perfectly ordinary non-sexual nudity.

This gives a natural path to give kids the general outline of human biology, including procreation, while leaving the sexual activity aspects out of it, until they're old enough to understand.

Precisely, with one exception.

I would change "sexual activity out of it" to "psychological and emotional aspects of it". The physical side of sexuality isn't - to me - a problematic issue.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #87 on: July 12, 2023, 10:31:03 am »
One aspect of Finnish culture I really like is the concept of Sauna.
It is a scrupulously clean place; like a surgery.  Just like in pre-teen kids' lives, there is no room in there for sex.
Even though families and friends typically bathe together nude, it's just nudity, explicitly non-sexual.
And it's perfectly okay to say that I am too shy to bathe nude in a mixed crowd: it just leads to a common decision whether to bathe by gender or not, and a friendly reminder that it's always okay to wrap yourself in a towel in sauna if you're shy.  At least in my circles!
It is very common for teens and young adults to be shy and picky about it, with small kids and older adults having more relaxed attitudes.  Hormones, perhaps?

I think this cultural aspect teaches kids at the emotional level that there is perfectly ordinary non-sexual nudity.

This gives a natural path to give kids the general outline of human biology, including procreation, while leaving the sexual activity aspects out of it, until they're old enough to understand.

I have no issue at all with non-sexual nudity, personally I prefer not to be nude around anyone that is not a romantic partner but I don't have an issue with whatever other people want to do. To me plain old nudity and sexual nudity are completely different things. Everybody has a set of naughty bits and there are only two varieties so there is no great secret there.

The problem with that is that the sexuality is in the mind of the observer, not the nude person.

It is entirely possible to have one nude person, two observers, and only one observer thinking of sexual activity. Which view should dominate?

Here's a clear (to me) example of that. In the US there appear to be creepy beauty pagents where parents dress their ?5-10? year old children like adults, including full makeup. I was gobsmacked when I heard about those, due to the Jon Ramsey Benet case hitting the headlines.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2023, 11:05:00 am by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #88 on: July 12, 2023, 02:59:26 pm »
I would change "sexual activity out of it" to "psychological and emotional aspects of it".
Yep; I couldn't think of better words to exactly express the difference between "human procreation as a biological process" and "having sex and its consequences".

It is entirely possible to have one nude person, two observers, and only one observer thinking of sexual activity. Which view should dominate?
The one that matches their behaviour, if we include things like eye focus and body language in "behaviour".

In the US there appear to be creepy beauty pagents where parents dress their ?5-10? year old children like adults, including full makeup.
Creepy parents are creepy.   :-//
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #89 on: July 12, 2023, 04:50:23 pm »
In the US there appear to be creepy beauty pagents where parents dress their ?5-10? year old children like adults, including full makeup.
Creepy parents are creepy.   :-//

It isn't clear to me that the parents are creepy.

Thoughtless, yes.
Misguided in terms of wanting to live their lives through their children, yes.
Juvenile in terms of treating their children as dolls, yes.
Dimwitted in claiming the children like it, yes. Even if the kids do enjoy the (only?) attention they get, that's not an excuse.

But none of those can apply to the creeps that organise (for profit) the shows, nor those that watch the shows. They make me shudder and spit blood.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #90 on: July 12, 2023, 06:11:03 pm »
One aspect of Finnish culture I really like is the concept of Sauna.
It is a scrupulously clean place; like a surgery.  Just like in pre-teen kids' lives, there is no room in there for sex.
Even though families and friends typically bathe together nude, it's just nudity, explicitly non-sexual.
And it's perfectly okay to say that I am too shy to bathe nude in a mixed crowd: it just leads to a common decision whether to bathe by gender or not, and a friendly reminder that it's always okay to wrap yourself in a towel in sauna if you're shy.  At least in my circles!
It is very common for teens and young adults to be shy and picky about it, with small kids and older adults having more relaxed attitudes.  Hormones, perhaps?

I think this cultural aspect teaches kids at the emotional level that there is perfectly ordinary non-sexual nudity.

This gives a natural path to give kids the general outline of human biology, including procreation, while leaving the sexual activity aspects out of it, until they're old enough to understand.

I have no issue at all with non-sexual nudity, personally I prefer not to be nude around anyone that is not a romantic partner but I don't have an issue with whatever other people want to do. To me plain old nudity and sexual nudity are completely different things. Everybody has a set of naughty bits and there are only two varieties so there is no great secret there.

The fact that you describe genitals as "naughty bits" speaks volumes.
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Offline james_s

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #91 on: July 12, 2023, 06:24:39 pm »
You sound like an HR-droid that treats employees as resources rather than people.
Or a boss that thinks his minions should just obey commands and "don't need to know why".
Or maybe as someone who believes in strong religious doctrines.

That's quite a lot of assumptions to make about somebody you don't know and have never met based on a single statement.

I'm quite the opposite really, I'm an engineer, I'm not a people person and have/will never claim to be and I have zero interest in HR.

A boss is fundamentally different than a parent, a boss's job is to work with his/her reports, coordinate their strengths, shield them from bs from higher layers in the org and give them the resources and support they need to grow in their career in order to get a job done. A parent's job is to raise their children into functional adults, totally different relationship. A parent has the absolute right to say no and to dictate what their child is allowed to have or do, as the child gets older they gradually get more freedom and autonomy. Employees are adults, adults have autonomy and are fully responsible for their own actions and behavior. A child is different, they will earn that autonomy as they grow up. Not even remotely the same thing.

I'm about as far from "someone who believes in strong religious doctrines" as they come, I'm an agnostic atheist, never been to church in my life, don't plan on ever going, won't tell you not to go or not, don't know if my beliefs are "right" and don't care. I don't personally believe there is a supreme being that created the universe and I think as an explanation the concept creates more questions than it answers but on the other hand I can't say for certainty that there isn't. I simply don't know for sure, and I think anyone that does claim to know with certainty is either crazy or full of shit.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #92 on: July 12, 2023, 06:30:38 pm »
The fact that you describe genitals as "naughty bits" speaks volumes.

It's a term that I heard somewhere and thought it sounded funny, what exactly are you reading into those volumes that it speaks? It seems you've formed a complete picture of me based on a word I used in attempt to mix in a little humor and to be polite in mixed company. I'd encourage you to try to be a tad less prejudiced and not jump to conclusions. 
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #93 on: July 12, 2023, 06:37:51 pm »
What if your daughter decided she wanted crisps, a chocolate bar and ice cream for dinner? Would you say no, or just gave her what she wanted?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2023, 07:10:44 pm by Zero999 »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #94 on: July 12, 2023, 06:41:13 pm »
The problem with that is that the sexuality is in the mind of the observer, not the nude person.

It is entirely possible to have one nude person, two observers, and only one observer thinking of sexual activity. Which view should dominate?

Here's a clear (to me) example of that. In the US there appear to be creepy beauty pagents where parents dress their ?5-10? year old children like adults, including full makeup. I was gobsmacked when I heard about those, due to the Jon Ramsey Benet case hitting the headlines.

Sure but you can't control how an observer perceives something, and that is part of the problem with some of this "culture war" stuff that is going on. Some people are focused on trying to demand others to perceive something in a certain way and that is just fundamentally flawed, it's not possible to do. You can't stop an observer from possibly sexualizing in their head a nude person that they're observing, but there is a HUGE difference between say a centerfold from a Penthouse magazine and a photo of a nude female in a biology textbook.

Yes those pageants where they tart up toddlers and parade them around in front of a room full of adults  are repulsive, contrary to how it may appear I'm no prude, I consider myself "sex positive", I'm perfectly fine with adults doing whatever they want with other consenting adults with no shame in that and if statistics are to be believed I've had more partners than is average in my country, but I set a hard boundary between children, especially pre-pubescent children, and adults. Sexualizing pre-pubescent children is revolting and I think there is something seriously wrong with people that want to do that.
 

Offline asmi

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #95 on: July 12, 2023, 06:50:37 pm »
Whenever politicians start talking about children, you'd better watch your pockets.
 
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Offline Zero999

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #96 on: July 12, 2023, 06:54:28 pm »
Heck, it's possible for pictures of clothed people, with the naughty bits covered, to be pornographic. Sexually suggestive poses, tight fitting garments, allowing the body shape to be seen, hands or objects placed down their pants etc.

Pornography is simply material created with the sole intention of causing sexual arousal. It can be pictures, video, writing etc. Whether something is pornographic or not is somewhat subjective, but most people know it when they see it.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #97 on: July 12, 2023, 07:35:29 pm »
Whenever politicians start talking about children, you'd better watch your pockets.

And when they don't, you'd better watch your children. ::)
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #98 on: July 12, 2023, 08:00:44 pm »
You sound like an HR-droid that treats employees as resources rather than people.
Or a boss that thinks his minions should just obey commands and "don't need to know why".
Or maybe as someone who believes in strong religious doctrines.

That's quite a lot of assumptions to make about somebody you don't know and have never met based on a single statement.

I will assume your comprehension skills are reasonable, so I conclude that you speed read so fast that you missed the key words. To aid you, I've highlighted them above. Just to make the point clear to people that don't have English as a first language, my statement was a simile, not metaphor. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/simile defines similie as "a figure of speech comparing two unlike things that is often introduced by like or as"

Now, do you have any response to my more interesting points and questions? Viz:

[My daughter] decided when it was appropriate for her. I was going to leave it another year or two, but she took the initiative.  That was fine, and the alternative would have been far far worse for the reasons I outlined above.

Things don't happen according to a fixed schedule. Everybody is individual, and that should be understood, accepted, and accomodated.

Many people thought 3yo was too young to learn to read. I didn't have any such preconceptions (of course), so asked my father to teach me and he did. Family lore is that I was reading the daily newspaper before I went to school. Some people thought that was wrong and that I should "just be a normal kid", which I presume means "be like I was".

...

My daughter is not me. She is an independent individual, and should be treated as such.

...

Do you have children?

It sounds like you have read how to interact with young people from a textbook or newspaper.

Children are not - or should not be - submissive to their parents. They are young people and should be treated as you would treat other inexperienced people. That means
  • explaining and guiding, not forcing
  • allowing them to jump in at the deep end, but being there to make sure they don't sink. Including, depending on the child's personality, encouraging them to jump in at the deep end
  • giving information that is appropriate to their level of experience

Perhaps the single most revealing answer would be if you told us whether you have (or are responsible for) any children.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: UK internet censoring
« Reply #99 on: July 12, 2023, 08:07:59 pm »
What if your daughter decided she wanted crisps, a chocolate bar and ice cream for dinner? Would you say no, or just gave her what she wanted?

That's not really comparable: one-off education vs potentially repetitive habit.

Nonetheless, I would probably do what my mother did when my brother became interested in smoking (back when smoking was normal and non-smoking exceptional). She bought a pack of fags and let him smoke them all. Naturally he was sick, and became a lifelong non-smoker. Job done.

Forbidding/denying young people something is an excellent way to get them to surreptitiously/furtively investigate something. Not good behaviour on the part of the parent or child, IMHO.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 


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