| General > General Technical Chat |
| UK power grid situation!! |
| << < (23/28) > >> |
| G7PSK:
I live in Norfolk not far from the coast and very often when I go up to the coast even when there is a favourable wind most if not all the visible offshore wind turbines are at a standstill when the land based ones are turning, not sure why this is. |
| tggzzz:
--- Quote from: tom66 on December 13, 2022, 01:19:33 pm ---Wind ex storage would be a grid powered by wind power with negligible amounts of storage, assuming that it will always be windy. What's hard to understand about that? --- End quote --- It an obscure phrase that you probably invented on the spur of the moment, and which failed to communicate what you meant. --- Quote ---I have read nearly all of MacKay's book; I wouldn't be proposing what I suggest if it wasn't somewhat feasible. But: MacKay died in 2016, and the book was last updated in ~2014. In that time, available technology has changed, and wind power has been constructed at an immense scale. --- End quote --- The fundamentals haven't changed one iota; that's what makes the book so valuable. --- Quote ---For instance, wind systems are now well integrated into the grid. NG/ESO understand when wind won't be available and when to have additional supply on hand. Constructing wind power in the sea is far more feasible and we can put 20MW offshore turbines up now. --- End quote --- True, but irrelevant to the key point about storage. --- Quote ---A wind farm can be commissioned in a matter of months, far quicker than any nuclear or gas power plant, but it can generate comparable power to one in good conditions. --- End quote --- Nonsense, unless you are using "commissioned" in a non-standard way that you haven't bothered to specify (cf "wind ex storage"). Cherry picking (e.g. "in good conditions") is a bad debating technique, suitable only for politicians and salesmen. It is true that getting a conventional nuke operating is slower than a wind farm. The SMR approach is yet to be tested. --- Quote ---In his book, MacKay provided limited analysis of off-shore wind, which a 100GW-sized wind grid would consist mostly of (he also did not provide any analysis of new technologies, such as floating off-shore, or newer turbines that can sink into 100m deep trenches). Onshore wind is worth constructing because it is *so cheap* to build, and cheaper than offshore to maintain, but it carries a political price and therefore we're unlikely to see much new developments here. It's less effective and less consistent than offshore, but storage (and combining it with offshore) makes that kind of thing less important. --- End quote --- Those are variations on a theme, and nothing fundamental. 100GW with storage is larger than we would require. Without storage we would want something around, say, 1000GW to avoid outages, --- Quote ---(That forecast is a little inaccurate - the UK already has 25GW of wind capacity and it's ~2023.) --- End quote --- No, the UK doesn't. It has 25GW peak capacity, which is very different. In the last year * On 2nd August it had own to 0GW (zero) output. * 1.7% of the time it had <1% of the peak output (i.e. <250MW). Please do your research before making statements such as those below. --- Quote ---You would not need significantly more dispatchable power. You would simply maintain and replace as necessary the existing natural gas power generation equipment, which is normally enough with nuclear to support the grid under most conditions without wind. --- End quote --- "Normally enough" is what happens in third world countries and back in the 70s. I've experienced both those, and it sucks. --- Quote ---Rough may be only used at 20% currently, but it will be fully reopening soon; it's a crying shame this government has inadequately funded storage. --- End quote --- What's your source for "will be fully reopened" and definition of "soon"? Arguably it isn't up to the government to fund storage: that is the company's responsibility. Whether the government allows the companies to escape their responsibility is a different question. --- Quote ---But hopefully Russia's actions show that is increasingly necessary to maintain energy independence which wind power and storage enables. Anyway, I said we'd need more storage, this is not the hard part. There are lots of depleted gas fields, and there will be more come the end of North Sea gas and oil. I'm sure we can figure that bit out. The difficult bit is the syngas stuff, that is the new infrastructure that needs to be built en-masse. --- End quote --- "I'm sure we can figure that out" is not sufficient. Syngas has no advantages (and many disadvantages) over natural gas, and is an irrelevant distraction. |
| tggzzz:
--- Quote from: G7PSK on December 13, 2022, 02:12:27 pm ---I live in Norfolk not far from the coast and very often when I go up to the coast even when there is a favourable wind most if not all the visible offshore wind turbines are at a standstill when the land based ones are turning, not sure why this is. --- End quote --- Speculation without knowledge: breakdowns/maintenance, whichwill be more frequent due to the harsh environment. There's a reason why onshore is preferred. |
| themadhippy:
--- Quote ---in certain conditions would have a very low price --- End quote --- :-DD --- Quote --- it's a crying shame this government has inadequately funded storage. --- End quote --- you want the tax payer to pay for the maintenance privately owned infrastructure twice ,were already paying for that privilege as part of the daily standing charge. heres a better idea ,put there own hands in there own pockets and pay for it out of there profits.If you want the tax payer to pay for it then put it back into state ownership |
| G7PSK:
--- Quote from: tggzzz on December 13, 2022, 02:27:35 pm --- --- Quote from: G7PSK on December 13, 2022, 02:12:27 pm ---I live in Norfolk not far from the coast and very often when I go up to the coast even when there is a favourable wind most if not all the visible offshore wind turbines are at a standstill when the land based ones are turning, not sure why this is. --- End quote --- Speculation without knowledge: breakdowns/maintenance, whichwill be more frequent due to the harsh environment. There's a reason why onshore is preferred. --- End quote --- Where is the speculation here, I said I live near the Norfolk coast and very often they are at a standstill, that is what I have seen, I did not give a reason, I think this is a statement of fact as I have seen it. I have just been on the MET office web site and they say that fog is one of the most frequent weather conditions in the Uk especialy around the east coast where many if not most of the offshore wind farms are. |
| Navigation |
| Message Index |
| Next page |
| Previous page |