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UK power grid situation!!

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themadhippy:

--- Quote ---If the manufacturer of the heater puts a crap timer and extra frost-stat in then... well, don't use that particular model!

--- End quote ---
good luck finding one

--- Quote ---A simple electronic timer meets the requirements of Lot20, no requirement exists for the frost stat etc
--- End quote ---
Why does a night storage heater,connected to an economy 7 supply need a built in timer?

Someone:

--- Quote from: tom66 on December 07, 2022, 02:28:00 pm ---None of those functions are required by Lot20 though, it's just about including a mandatory timer.  If the manufacturer of the heater puts a crap timer and extra frost-stat in then... well, don't use that particular model!  That's nothing to do with the EU, and I bet the residents would be far more upset by leaving the heater on for longer than a few watts in a digital controller.  A simple electronic timer meets the requirements of Lot20, no requirement exists for the frost stat etc.
--- End quote ---
Energy saved in having a temperature setback during the sleeping/away hours would easily swamp the couple of watts from standby & fan.

Kasper:

--- Quote from: floobydust on December 06, 2022, 03:25:01 am ---How much the shortfall is, it can take one power plant to trip and go offline, a loss of say 500MW to cause a crisis. Remember Enron did this on purpose.
Grid contingency is always pretty small, there is never that much excess generation available to handle bad weather.

--- End quote ---

This is one of the downsides of large power plants that often seems to get ignored.  Large power plants focus an essential system for a large area into a series of places.

1 problem in the distrubition network or the plant causes a big problem for a lot of people. 

Nice thing about renewables is small, self reliant systems can be spread out such that 1 problem in 1 small area only impacts that small area.

Mark:

--- Quote from: mikerj on December 07, 2022, 01:59:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on December 05, 2022, 09:47:23 pm ---Renewable energy being intermittent isn't really a problem if you have grid scale storage

--- End quote ---

But we don't...

--- End quote ---

it's a start:

November 25, 2022
Europe's biggest battery storage system goes online four months early
https://www.techspot.com/news/96773-europe-biggest-battery-storage-system-goes-online-four.html

Operators have flipped the switch on Europe's largest battery energy storage system, bringing online a system capable of storing enough electricity to power 300,000 homes for up to two hours.
The facility, located in Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK. 

tggzzz:

--- Quote from: Mark on December 09, 2022, 10:46:39 am ---it's a start:
...
Operators have flipped the switch on Europe's largest battery energy storage system, bringing online a system capable of storing enough electricity to power 300,000 homes for up to two hours.
The facility, located in Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.

--- End quote ---

Unfortunately that cannot be remotely sufficient in the current situation.

Firstly, it presumes that the battery can be recharged after the 2 hours. If there is a gas shortage then the cuts will be continuous (in a predefined rota) until there is sufficient excess power.

Secondly, the power cuts rota starts at 3 hour cuts per day and, as shortages get worse, progresses to 6, 9, 12, 18, 21 and 24 hour cuts.
FFI see https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electricity-supply-emergency-code

As far as I can see, the two practical ways of storing grid scale energy for a few days are hydroelectric (pumped or conventional) and gas. Unfortunately the UK geography is against hydro, and the UK gas storage facilities were allowed to decay by Centrica because they were uneconomic. Shortsighted and not prevented by the government (presumably based on the dogma that industry and the market knows best).

The person/company that develops practical long-term grid-scale storage of electricity will become as rich as Croesus.

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