General > General Technical Chat
UK power grid situation!!
tggzzz:
--- Quote from: themadhippy on December 09, 2022, 07:53:00 pm ---The uk has a new method of cutting down on grid demand,pricing the poor out of the market.
--- End quote ---
If they fall behind on their payments too far, then the energy companies don't cut them off (because they said they wouldn't when installing the smart meters).
They do, however, transfer them onto a prepayment tariff, which is typically more expensive. That has more or less the same effect as cutting them off, but avoids the PR & political fallout.
Whether that is fair or just is, of course, a separate argument.
Personally I'm waiting until there is a large database cockup or malefactors enter the system - and transition everyone onto a prepayment tariff or directly turnoff the supply at using smart meters.
tom66:
Supply and demand. There's a shortfall of gas, prices have to rise. Why would they not? How else would you manage excess demand in a time of shortage? The alternative is rationing, i.e. power outages throughout the day, and that sounds even more unpleasant. Of course, if the shortfall got bigger due to low temperatures, it is an acknowledged risk, with energy prices being capped there is technically no incentive to further reduce consumption.
tggzzz:
--- Quote from: tom66 on December 09, 2022, 10:31:30 pm ---Supply and demand. There's a shortfall of gas, prices have to rise. Why would they not? How else would you manage excess demand in a time of shortage? The alternative is rationing, i.e. power outages throughout the day, and that sounds even more unpleasant. Of course, if the shortfall got bigger due to low temperatures, it is an acknowledged risk, with energy prices being capped there is technically no incentive to further reduce consumption.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.
All you have done is indicate the conditions that lead to rationing using one criteria or another.
Poor people are pretty frugal with their use of fuel. I doubt that cutting off poor people's supply will do much to reduce the chance of general rationing via widespread power outages.
themadhippy:
Supply and demand. There's a shortfall of gas, shareholders dividend have to rise.
tom66:
Was more replying to @hippy, re prices going up pricing the poor out of the market. Not saying it is not unfair, but your two options are high prices, or rationing. And yes, shareholder dividends for the energy extractors are higher than they ever have been, so I fully support taxing them hell out of these companies. But, it still doesn't resolve the issue with a shortfall of gas, because you need to manage that somehow.
People have to be forced to ration, by increasing the price ("demand destruction") or you have to ration them forcefully. A prepayment meter is one way, but those can take a while to get approval for, and can require physical access unless the meter is already compatible. They also don't work for people who can keep up with their bill, but are using a lot of energy regardless (because the government is picking up the tab and in theory, governments have unlimited money.) So, that's why we might see rolling blackouts this winter if we're unlucky, because we're literally consuming too much gas and the price signals to stop that have gone. (This is an unlikely worst-case scenario. So far the data shows we'll not see this, because we've consumed less gas this year than a typical winter, and the winter has been warmer than historical averages.)
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