General > General Technical Chat
UK power grid situation!!
themadhippy:
--- Quote --- Rationing would be telling people you have 10kWh of gas to use today, once you go over that, you're going to shiver
--- End quote ---
Brilliant idea as long as us wthout gas get to flog our share off
TimFox:
The UK did not end World War II rationing until 1954.
Food rationing was not so severe in US (not under attack) and it ended in 1945, except for sugar that was rationed until 1947.
tggzzz:
--- Quote from: tom66 on December 10, 2022, 04:47:19 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on December 10, 2022, 10:24:04 am ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on December 10, 2022, 08:43:58 am ---Was more replying to @hippy, re prices going up pricing the poor out of the market. Not saying it is not unfair, but your two options are high prices, or rationing. And yes, shareholder dividends for the energy extractors are higher than they ever have been, so I fully support taxing them hell out of these companies. But, it still doesn't resolve the issue with a shortfall of gas, because you need to manage that somehow.
--- End quote ---
It would be helpful if you learned two basic things:
* indicating who and what you are replying to by using the "quote" button rather than the "reply" button
* understanding the concept of "price elasticity of demand". That will clue you in to why high prices are a form of rationing. High prices and rationing are not mutually orthogonal
--- End quote ---
Use of @username (or an abbreviation where it is not ambiguous) is an accepted internet practice to refer to multiple posts when there is no particular comment in mind. It predates Twitter, but it was probably mass popularised by that platform.
Of course I understand demand elasticity. That's like econ 101. But that's not really the same as rationing, because it's not enforced on you if you can afford to pay, it just encourages demand destruction by consumers. Rationing would be telling people you have 10kWh of gas to use today, once you go over that, you're going to shiver. That is the alternative if we want to keep prices low. That's also what I wanted the UK EPG to be, some average amount of kWh per year/quarter/month to be covered at the guaranteed price and anything above that at market rates, but it isn't how it worked out.
--- End quote ---
Having been on the net since '86, I am fully aware of various conventions. Quoting was commonplace even then, in emails and on usenet. It is regarded as being courteous to readers.
The first time I noticed your seeming inability to use the quote button was your slightly earlier post https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/uk-power-grid-situation!!/msg4572133/#msg4572133
Where it certainly wasn't obvious.
Your comments indicated you have no understanding of price elasticity.
Your latest comments indicate you have no concept of "rationing by price".
SiliconWizard:
--- Quote from: themadhippy on December 09, 2022, 07:53:00 pm ---The uk has a new method of cutting down on grid demand,pricing the poor out of the market.
--- End quote ---
Oh yes, but it's not restricted to the UK. It's the same shit happening in most of Europe.
It's also driving a lot of smaller companies out of business.
Zero999:
--- Quote from: Someone on December 07, 2022, 01:48:17 am ---
--- Quote from: themadhippy on December 07, 2022, 12:23:32 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on December 06, 2022, 03:53:21 am ---
--- Quote from: themadhippy on December 06, 2022, 03:11:20 am ---
--- Quote ---Most of these renewables provide intermittent power, meaning they generate electricity when the wind is blowing or the sun is shining
--- End quote ---
so something which stores the energy when available would be ideal,like the box of bricks currently heating this place.thankfully there not lot 20 compliant.
--- End quote ---
Sure sounds like you're one of the usual complainers that needs batting down.... being that lot 20 does not change existing installs, restricts the market for new installs, and there are new storage heaters on the market with LOT20 compliance.
So, still wanting to dream of the past?
--- End quote ---
I'm fully aware what lot 20 is and its scope,I'm also aware ,from real life figures ,not reading random numbers in a brochure that a like for like lot 20 compliment heater will actual consume MORE energy than these ancient heaters
--- End quote ---
Talking about resistive heating (off peak electricity heating into bricks), how can consuming more power result in less heating ? ? ? all the energy ends up as heat with almost perfect unity.
or more accurately if you come back and say that there is no impediment to buying another storage heater, then what on earth were you saying originally (quoted above) ? What is better about the old heaters that you cannot buy? Resistive heating dump into a brick is pretty much impossible to screw up.
--- End quote ---
It depends on the person's lifestyle. For me, storage heaters would cost more money to run. I prefer to have the heating off at night and most of the day, as I'm either at work, or out seeing family. I turn the heating on in the late-afternoon/early evening (I normally work shorter hours in winter, so I can avoid cycling in the dark) and it stays on until I go to bed. I also have the thermostat set to 15oC both to save energy and so I don't break into a sweat and have to remove layers of clothing, when doing housework.
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on December 10, 2022, 06:59:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: themadhippy on December 09, 2022, 07:53:00 pm ---The uk has a new method of cutting down on grid demand,pricing the poor out of the market.
--- End quote ---
Oh yes, but it's not restricted to the UK. It's the same shit happening in most of Europe.
It's also driving a lot of smaller companies out of business.
--- End quote ---
In the UK there are triad charges during peak times, for large commercial users. This incentivises businesses to cut their power consumption during peak hours, between 16:30 and 18:30, from November to February. They're not applicable to small businesses, as far as I'm aware.
https://smarterbusiness.co.uk/blogs/faq-what-are-triad-charges/
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