Author Topic: UK TV Licence  (Read 11295 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online soldarTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3128
  • Country: es
UK TV Licence
« on: February 03, 2019, 11:04:41 pm »
I have known of the existence and requirement but never really thought about it. Now I have just seen several videos on Youtube of police and "inspectors" entering people's homes to check for TVs.

I just can't wrap my head around this. I can't understand it but that is because in all of the countries I have lived in none had this.

I mean, if you want people to pay why not just encrypt the signal like some channels do in other countries? And if it is going to be like just a tax on pretty much everybody why not just make it part of the general budget? That way you save all this collection effort and expense.

And, really, police go into people's homes to search for TVs? The chance that a resident is not paying their TV tax is considered a crime of such level that it requires police visits to investigate? Really? Judges issue warrants on suspicion that someone has a TV?

And just having a screen is enough that you have to pay for the licence even if you never watch TV? What if you can prove the tuner has been disabled to receive the BBC? What if you only play DVDs or streaming movies?

Do radio receivers pay too?

How are the fines handled? Can they be appealed? I just cannot imagine having to pay such tax.

I guess it is a cultural thing but I just have a hard time understanding it or maybe I am just not well informed on how it works.

Can anyone explain it? Does this exist in other countries?
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Offline cdev

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 7350
  • Country: 00
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2019, 11:12:45 pm »
It does exist in other countries, here in the US, the TV shows are just a wrapper around the commercials which are the real payload.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline Sparky49

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2019, 11:17:46 pm »
It exists in many countries from Japan to Denmark, Italy to Pakistan. I think the Germans also have a radio licence, but I only vaguely remember learning that years ago in school, so could be totally wrong.  ^-^
 

Offline KaneTW

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 805
  • Country: de
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2019, 11:23:37 pm »
Germany has a pretty awful system. Every office, car and flat is basically obligated to pay that tax, regardless of whether they have a TV or radio or not. It's extortion.
 
The following users thanked this post: Sparky49

Online tggzzz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19280
  • Country: gb
  • Numbers, not adjectives
    • Having fun doing more, with less
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2019, 11:26:23 pm »
Easy.

In the UK we consume the product, i.e. the BBC TV shows. The shows are of above average originality and we get 60 minutes of programme for every hour we watch. For this we pay the licence fee.

We can also watch TV programmes which are interrupted and sparse, with only about 40 minutes of programme per hour. For the other 33% of the time our eyeballs and brains are being sold to companies. The companies pay money, we pay with the only thing that cannot be replaced: our remaining life.

Most people are very happy to pay a little money, but gain good programmes and some non-wasted lifetime.

The same is true in other countries: witness the rise of Netflix.

Always remember, if you aren't paying, then you are the product being sold.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
The following users thanked this post: nctnico, cdev, CJay, Wendy_Preston

Offline KaneTW

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 805
  • Country: de
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2019, 11:45:09 pm »
Paying isn't the issue. The way they go about it is.
 
The following users thanked this post: soldar

Offline booyeah

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: ie
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2019, 12:20:44 am »
Same scenario here in Ireland, but unlike in the UK where the BBC is advertisement free, here we get adverts too.

You often read in the papers/online about people not only having the cops get a warrant and search their house but it goes further to court and prosecution.
Some people even get sent to prison but usually they get released an hour later as the prisons haven't enough space for the genuine criminals.

 

Offline RoGeorge

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6145
  • Country: ro
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2019, 12:43:25 am »
Here, in Romania, the same.  The Radio-TV tax was enforced by the law, and it was taxed on the electricity bill, by the gov.  There were many debates about the Radio-TV tax being non-constitutional, and I have no idea if I am still paying it or not.  I didn't watch TV or listen to radio for decades now.

There was an option to not pay for those who can prove they have no receiver, or they have a sealed receiver (no idea how to seal a radio or a TV) but the tax was very, very small, so most of the people didn't bother to opt out.  In theory, the "TV police" could come and inspect a home for any radio or TV receiver, in practice, it doesn't happen.  Most of the mobile phones can receive broadcast radio too, same for the radio in the cars, and so on.

The justification for such a law was that a country needs an independent and unbiased TV and Radio to inform the people.  That was very debatable, too, especially because national radio/TV still use to broadcast commercials (don't know if they still do it, probably yes).  Even more, it doesn't matter if one choose to tune to the national radio or TV broadcast or not.  If there is an unsealed receiver, the tax must be payed.

It applies for companies, too, where the tax was slightly bigger and the bookkeeper put it in reports.

No idea if that law still applies here, I think it is, but again, the tax was negligible small.

Never heard from someone known about a private home Radio/TV inspection, thought.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 12:54:11 am by RoGeorge »
 

Offline NiHaoMike

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8973
  • Country: us
  • "Don't turn it on - Take it apart!"
    • Facebook Page
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2019, 12:52:36 am »
We can also watch TV programmes which are interrupted and sparse, with only about 40 minutes of programme per hour. For the other 33% of the time our eyeballs and brains are being sold to companies. The companies pay money, we pay with the only thing that cannot be replaced: our remaining life.
The smart ones will fast forward or skip the ads. That's if the content is worth watching in the first place...
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Online wraper

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 16794
  • Country: lv
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2019, 12:55:43 am »
I mean, if you want people to pay why not just encrypt the signal like some channels do in other countries? And if it is going to be like just a tax on pretty much everybody why not just make it part of the general budget? That way you save all this collection effort and expense.
Because it's a legal robbing. All of the money goes to BBC only regardless of what you watch. Even if you use satellite dish or cable TV. Only legal way to not pay is disconnecting any antenna/cable whatsoever.
 
The following users thanked this post: soldar

Offline Red Squirrel

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2748
  • Country: ca
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2019, 01:46:01 am »
It's kind of messed that it's even a thing.    Yet another example of government overreach into our lives.   What happens if you just need a TV for a purpose like just displaying something like security cameras or using it as a monitor?  Still need a license I bet? 

Speaking of the ridiculousness of needing a license for stupid stuff,  here in Canada they are introducing a law as of June 1st and you need a license to operate RC aircraft and each one has to be individually registered. Like guns back when there was a registry.   At what point is it going to apply for anything else like RC cars or just toys in general etc.   Governments don't like people to have any kind of fun, and if they do, they better pay up in some form or the other.    Some will even have extra taxes on things related to entertainment.  I guess the way they see it, if we have time to do things that entertain us it means we arn't working. They want us to work more so we can pay more taxes.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 01:55:01 am by Red Squirrel »
 

Offline Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 12288
  • Country: au
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2019, 01:54:51 am »
The smart ones will fast forward or skip the ads. That's if the content is worth watching in the first place...
That's OK if you've recorded the program, but it's a bit hard on standard TV.

We had that licensing here in Australia for years, but it was discontinued in 1974.
 

Offline Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 12288
  • Country: au
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2019, 01:56:22 am »
Governments don't like people to have any kind of fun ...
That's not it at all.  Blame the ones who abuse the privileges they have.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2748
  • Country: ca
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2019, 02:03:48 am »
Governments don't like people to have any kind of fun ...
That's not it at all.  Blame the ones who abuse the privileges they have.

That's part of the issue too instead of punishing the few that cause problems they just punish everyone with overreaching regulations.  This goes with everything in general really. 
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7563
  • Country: au
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2019, 02:07:42 am »
I have known of the existence and requirement but never really thought about it. Now I have just seen several videos on Youtube of police and "inspectors" entering people's homes to check for TVs.

I just can't wrap my head around this. I can't understand it but that is because in all of the countries I have lived in none had this.

I mean, if you want people to pay why not just encrypt the signal like some channels do in other countries? And if it is going to be like just a tax on pretty much everybody why not just make it part of the general budget? That way you save all this collection effort and expense.

And, really, police go into people's homes to search for TVs? The chance that a resident is not paying their TV tax is considered a crime of such level that it requires police visits to investigate? Really? Judges issue warrants on suspicion that someone has a TV?

And just having a screen is enough that you have to pay for the licence even if you never watch TV? What if you can prove the tuner has been disabled to receive the BBC? What if you only play DVDs or streaming movies?

Do radio receivers pay too?

How are the fines handled? Can they be appealed? I just cannot imagine having to pay such tax.

I guess it is a cultural thing but I just have a hard time understanding it or maybe I am just not well informed on how it works.

Can anyone explain it? Does this exist in other countries?

The TV/Radio licence dates back to the beginnings of Broadcasting, when "encryption" was not practical.
Also, up to 1955, if you wanted to listen to British Radio, or watch British TV, you watched the BBC.
It seemed quite fair to the authorities, to apply the "user pays" principle, hence Radio & TV licences.

By and large, as it was only a small cost, the "Great British Public" didn't consider it something worth "going to the barricades about", so it became part of the British culture.

As people were mostly law-abiding, there wasn't a lot of need for a lot of enforcement, although there were dark mutterings back in the1960s/70s about DF vans driving around listening for TV set local oscillator leakage.
Latterly, licensing has become the responsibility of the BBC, who under the trading name "TV Licensing" have outsourced it to a number of private contractors.

To forestall the "barrack room lawyers" who maintained that if they didn't watch the BBC, or indeed, any FTA TV, in 2006, the licence was reclassified as a "tax", which you pay no matter what kind of TV you watch.

Most of the comments I've heard about over-zealous enforcement has been levelled at the private contractors.

I don't live there, this is basically information I've picked up over the years as an interested observer.

Australia had a similar Radio/TV licence, but the ABC never had a broadcasting monopoly like "the Beeb".
It was dumped in the 1970s on the basis that collection & enforcement cost more than the income.
 

Online wraper

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 16794
  • Country: lv
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2019, 02:12:38 am »
although there were dark mutterings back in the1960s/70s about DF vans driving around listening for TV set local oscillator leakage.
Those vans were a total hoax. They were not listening anything, the only purpose was to scare public that they will be discovered.
 

Offline Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 12288
  • Country: au
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2019, 02:16:21 am »
That's part of the issue too instead of punishing the few that cause problems they just punish everyone with overreaching regulations.  This goes with everything in general really. 
It's not a matter of punishment - but of implementing a mechanism to control all those who would otherwise play games dodging any "reasonable person" benchmarks.  The result is that in order to establish an effective framework we end up with a bureaucratic construct that will do this - but one that has to be applied to everyone to make sure the recalcitrants are constrained.  This means the bulk of the population are set boundaries meant for the hard-nosed.  Understandable - but it does suck and we don't have to like it.
 

Offline tsman

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 599
  • Country: gb
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2019, 02:34:26 am »
What happens if you just need a TV for a purpose like just displaying something like security cameras or using it as a monitor?  Still need a license I bet? 
No and no.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21611
  • Country: us
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2019, 04:51:41 am »
As someone who has not watched broadcast TV in ~20 years the TV license is a concept I've always found very bizarre. They should either encrypt the signal and require a subscription, or make it public and just roll the costs into the taxes that everyone pays. The tuner in my main TV has never been hooked up to anything, the one downstairs is connected only to vintage video game consoles. I would not want to alter the equipment nor would I want to pay for a license for something I don't use. The idea of allowing authorities into my home without being served with a search warrant is a rather foreign concept to me too.
 

Online wraper

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 16794
  • Country: lv
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2019, 04:55:32 am »
The idea of allowing authorities into my home without being served with a search warrant is a rather foreign concept to me too.
Well, actually they can't. But they convince most people that they can. Actually you can say BBC inspector to sod off, say you don't use TV,  and they won't be able to do anything about this. The only way they can catch you is if you show it them by yourself due to your own stupidity or if TV displaying live broadcast is visible through the window.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 04:58:54 am by wraper »
 

Offline all_repair

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 716
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2019, 05:57:26 am »
We, Singapore, inherited the UK system as a formal colony of GB.  It was a tax of a TV set, monitor excluded and regardless if you are watching local channels.  This was removed few years, and lately household is given a Free digital TV tuner as the analog TV signal is being cut off.  Personally I am not watching the local TV channels, just plain propoganda amplify to very high DB in the local cahnnels.  But a smart move by the government to use tax payer money to get more eyes and ears to the government propoganda.   
 

Online soldarTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3128
  • Country: es
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2019, 08:04:34 am »


The TV/Radio licence dates back to the beginnings of Broadcasting, when "encryption" was not practical.
Also, up to 1955, if you wanted to listen to British Radio, or watch British TV, you watched the BBC.
It seemed quite fair to the authorities, to apply the "user pays" principle, hence Radio & TV licences.

By and large, as it was only a small cost, the "Great British Public" didn't consider it something worth "going to the barricades about", so it became part of the British culture.

As people were mostly law-abiding, there wasn't a lot of need for a lot of enforcement, although there were dark mutterings back in the1960s/70s about DF vans driving around listening for TV set local oscillator leakage.
Latterly, licensing has become the responsibility of the BBC, who under the trading name "TV Licensing" have outsourced it to a number of private contractors.

To forestall the "barrack room lawyers" who maintained that if they didn't watch the BBC, or indeed, any FTA TV, in 2006, the licence was reclassified as a "tax", which you pay no matter what kind of TV you watch.

Most of the comments I've heard about over-zealous enforcement has been levelled at the private contractors.

I don't live there, this is basically information I've picked up over the years as an interested observer.

Australia had a similar Radio/TV licence, but the ABC never had a broadcasting monopoly like "the Beeb".
It was dumped in the 1970s on the basis that collection & enforcement cost more than the income.
Yes, it is a tax and IMHO should be paid as such, according to income and ability to pay. It seems very unfair to me that "the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread" and makes them pay BBC tax equally too. Taking it further you could just have a flat capitation tax equal for everybody. You live in the UK then everybody pays the same amount in tax. The beggar and HM pay the same. You cannot get any more equality than that. And the pauper and the beggar would be so proud to be contributing as much as everyone else to the maintenance of the realm.

I have no objection to HM Government paying for TV but it should come out of the general fund and not indiscriminately out of the pockets of people who are already having enough problems getting by in life. And, as you say, collection and enforcement cost a pretty penny too.

And collection goons going around spying on people and entering their homes? Really? Really?

In the UK this is considered a good use of police efforts? Police have no worse crimes to investigate?

It seems to me that the British will put up with anything as long as it is "traditional".  I mean, yes, encryption was impractical in 1945 and hanging trespassers might be considered appropriate then but, come on, we are, I have been told, in the 21st century. It seems to me the transition to digital TV would have been a good moment to change the system to encrypt broadcasts or just pay the darned BBC of of the general funds.

Any comparison with TV funded by commercials is just nonsensical. You have the freedom to watch such a channel or not. The goon police do not kick down your door and come into your living room at the break and assume you have been watching the program and hold you down on your couch forcing you to watch the commercials and preventing you from taking a bathroom break. Well, at least I have not heard of it yet.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Online soldarTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3128
  • Country: es
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2019, 08:11:41 am »
Most people are very happy to pay a little money, but gain good programmes and some non-wasted lifetime.

The same is true in other countries: witness the rise of Netflix.

You don't see the difference between the BBC tax and Netflix? Does "voluntary" mean anything to you?  I have never seen the Netflix goon van unload a search and destroy party into someone's living room.

All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Offline Towger

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1645
  • Country: ie
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2019, 08:31:45 am »


Same scenario here in Ireland, but unlike in the UK where the BBC is advertisement free, here we get adverts too.

But we get to watch the BBC for free, when fedup watching the local channels. :-)

Actually in recent years the BBC has managed to extract some money from cable/satellite companies in Ireland.  But there is nothing stopping you from sticking up your own antenna or watching on Freesat.

 

Online ebastler

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6202
  • Country: de
Re: UK TV Licence
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2019, 08:53:11 am »
...
They should either encrypt the signal and require a subscription, or make it public and just roll the costs into the taxes that everyone pays.

...
The idea of allowing authorities into my home without being served with a search warrant is a rather foreign concept to me too.

That is part of the rationale why the German system was changed. It used to be "you pay when you own a working TV", which implied potential visits by inspectors. (Who did not have a legal right to enter your premises, IIRC, but could be pushy.) It was changed to a "per household fee" a few years back, where you pay a fixed fee per household, regardless of whether you own a TV or not.

Unfortunately this happened at a time where an increasing number of (mostly younger) people do indeed no longer have TVs; and many of them probably don't watch public broadcasting contents online. So the new approach is not necessarily perceived as more fair.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf