ultra sonic transducers

[pete g]

if i was going to hook up one transducer would there be any polarity concerns?

[Zero999]

It depends, but my crystal ball has gone a little cloudy.

[woofy]

Plastic transducer, no problem.
Metal transducer, depends:
Check the case to the pins with a multimeter. If none are connected,  no problem.
If one pin is connected, make sure it is grounded if the circuit allows or at least isolated.

[pete g]

hi, thanks for responses. how would you hook up two or more in parallel?

[Zero999]

hi, thanks for responses. how would you hook up two or more in parallel?

You don't.

[Gyro]

As soon as you start putting transducers side by side, you start introducing interference patterns - peaks and nulls. That is almost certainly what you don't want.

[pete g]

hi, thanks for your responses. i have a problem. nearby dog barking. i'am looking for you ee's out there for a dog bark repeller. it needs to transmit an ultra sonic signal 75 to 100 feet. dog bark repellers are legal in my state so there is no liability issues. if someone will design the circuit i can build it. please help.

[CatalinaWOW]

Before you put any effort into building this thing, do you have any evidence that ultra sonic sounds suppress dog barking?  I know that dogs bark in response to hearing other dogs bark, and to unusual noises.  My knee jerk opinion would be that an ultrasonic noise would start dogs bothering rather than stop them.

[Zero999]

hi, thanks for your responses. i have a problem. nearby dog barking. i'am looking for you ee's out there for a dog bark repeller. it needs to transmit an ultra sonic signal 75 to 100 feet. dog bark repellers are legal in my state so there is no liability issues. if someone will design the circuit i can build it. please help.

You didn't say you wanted an ultrasound generator. Most people thought you wanted an ultrasonic microphone.

Please provide more information.

This is your last chance. More vague nonsense and you go on my ignore list.

[pete g]

sorry for my ineptitude. i need a ultrsonic transmitter (25khz) to project into my neighbors yard. approx. 75 to 100ft at a level the dogs can hear. ultra sonic conditioning of dog barking works. i suppose you would need an oscillator feeding into a high power ultra sonic amplifier and then a means of transmitting same. if i can provide more detail plz let me know.

[pete g]

still too vague?

[coppercone2]

you should try civil discourse instead of trying to make nutty contraptions

[Zero999]

sorry for my ineptitude. i need a ultrsonic transmitter (25khz) to project into my neighbors yard. approx. 75 to 100ft at a level the dogs can hear. ultra sonic conditioning of dog barking works. i suppose you would need an oscillator feeding into a high power ultra sonic amplifier and then a means of transmitting same. if i can provide more detail plz let me know.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374178720408?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338749393&toolid=20006&_ul=GB&_ul=GB&customid=GB_159912_v1%7C374178720408%7C0.148874905896~1871765235598-g_CjwKCAjwz42xBhB9EiwA48pT714LC2T8J9MBtaf9gCWWKCXbIMr9mNhiSxw6G1TgVEc8IkK_A4qYARoCM5cQAvD_BwE&gclid=CjwKCAjwz42xBhB9EiwA48pT714LC2T8J9MBtaf9gCWWKCXbIMr9mNhiSxw6G1TgVEc8IkK_A4qYARoCM5cQAvD_BwE

[pete g]

well, i think i should be the one to determine if civil discourse is an option. whats so nutty about the device i propose to stop the barking?

[pete g]

well, i had thought it might be nice to make one . and so, i appealed to the forum members to help out, there is certainly more expertise on this forum, that making the device i propose is entirely feasable.

[Zero999]

1) Plenty of people here are unconvinced about the efficacy of ultrasound at stopping a dog barking. The idea appears to be a crazy one to many,

2) It's possible to build one but why? It's cheaper to buy one and if it doesn't work, it's likely you'll be able to return it, for no more than the price of postage. This is more of a professional engineering forum, than a hobbyist one. If the best solution is to buy off the shelf, then that's the advice you'll get.

If you must go DIY, go for a tweeter, audio amplifier, a digital signal synthesis IC and microcontroller.

[EPAIII]

Have you considered an alligator for a pet? A friend of mine did that for exactly the same reason. Except he had TWO neighboring dogs which barked all the time.

I bet that dog would be the first to go.

[pete g]

didn't know about the professional, hobbiest bit. so thanks to all. i'll try elswhere.

[Zero999]

didn't know about the professional, hobbiest bit. so thanks to all. i'll try elswhere.

Don't get me wrong, we do have hobbyists here and encourage amateur electronics.  It's just we will tell you when your idea won't work and if it's easier to just buy it. In many cases, asking a question indicates the poster lacks the experience to make it.

I do encourage you to visit other forums. You'll mostly get 555 timer circuits, based on the data sheet. You could spend $$$ and time on this and it most likely won't work.

Here are some tweeters similar to those used in ultra sonic repellers.

https://www.cricklewoodelectronics.com/Piezo-Tweeter-150W-max.html?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8pKxBhD_ARIsAPrG45nlnPJMNdaZ4InSWETJapUdWX6wZxtdpwoLmg5MfvVGFyH9SuHxAhgaAg70EALw_wcB
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355572011302?chn=ps&_ul=GB&mkevt=1&mkcid=28

I suppose learning won't work is part of the learning experience, but why not listen to experts who've done this professionally? It will save you time and money. I suppose not listening, then failing and realising you had good advice is also part of the learning curve.

[CatalinaWOW]

I would also suggest that you need to supply the non electronics expertise needed.  Can't suggest transducers without knowing what power level is needed, which in turn requires knowing how loud the sound needs to be.

[pete g]

totally agree with the advice given. will look into buying one. the only problem being, none of the commercial ones  have the range i need.

[Zero999]

totally agree with the advice given. will look into buying one. the only problem being, none of the commercial ones  have the range i need.

Perhaps it's because you'll need an enormous amount of power, which might mean it's unsafe to be too near it?

Sound follows inverse square law, so to double the effective distance, you'll need four times the power.
https://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/staff/richard.baker/BasicAcoustics/4_inverse_square_law.html

[pete g]

yes, there could be a danger. but, being 87 i do need my sleep.

[PlainName]

Perhaps an alternative solution would be to find something that encourages the dog to bark. Sooner or later it will get  hoarse, or the owners will be thoroughly pissed off with it (it is closer to them than you... inverse law...). Perhaps some clever control to start the encouragement the moment it stops barking and just wear the thing out.

Or... get a cockerel. Two might be better since they will be in competition, although that works best if you have hens too. But think of the eggs for breakfast!

[SeanB]

Easiest is piezo tweeters, though you will need a few placed in an array, with a driver able to drive the 20uF or so of capacitive load they will present. Easy to assemble, and they do have a response out to around 30kHz, though your drive voltage is limited to around 30V or so. 7in by 3in ones are common for disco use, and cheap to buy for under $10.

[pete g]

its really strange. my neighbor with the dogs(5) hunting types has to get up every am and go to work. i'am sure he hears the dogs., also. thank god i'am retired and can sleep all day if need be.

[PlainName]

Sounds like you need an evening rock festival to keep him up past his bedtime.

Depending on where you live, that sort of disturbance (the dogs) would warrant a visit from the local authority, hopefully resulting in a Notice:

https://www.middevon.gov.uk/residents/dogs/dog-barking/

[pete g]

unfortunately, the authorities ignore the problem totally.

[eutectique]

You might get some ideas from these videos:

[pete g]

hi and thanks for your suggestion. i have found some circuits that i'am pursuing. i've tried several so far, to no avail. several more to go. the problem is to get the range i need.

[CatalinaWOW]

You say you don't have enough range.  Have you tried your short range devices at short range?   Maybe walk over to the barking dogs and see at what range they stop barking.  With that information you can be more specific about what you need.  For example if they stop barking when you are 5 feet away and you need to work from 150 feet you will need to step up power by (150/5)^2 or 900 times.  And at that level the ultrasonic sound might interfere with your sleep directly, even if you can't hear it.

[pete g]

yes, i thought their might be a mathematical way to figure out the power needed. if, say i need to transmit a hundred feet how much power would i need? it's hard to get at the dogs as theres  thick bushes blocking the way. theres one commercial unit that says 150 feet range. true? it sounds like from what you folks say, its going to be quite difficult to do. some guys are putting the ultra sonic signal thru very powerful amps. i don't think i want to go there. the last thing i want is to hurt the dogs.

[CatalinaWOW]

Maybe you can test your prototype on dogs at a pound or other location.  The whole point is to quantify the range at which a known power suppresses barking.  That is the basis for determining the power needed at your target range.  The equation I gave assumes one over range squared attenuation.  Thick bushes will provide an additional large attenuation, but would need measurement to determine the magnitude of the attenuation.  Unfortunately for your problem the bushes will be less effective at attenuating the lower frequency sounds associated with barking, so the fact that you hear them barking doesn't imply that your ultrasound will go the other way.

[CatalinaWOW]

I would not view the claim of 150 feet range by one commercial unit as reliable.  Unless you know a lot more about the company providing this unit, their history, user reviews and published data of results the claim must be treated as possibly false.  The field of ultrasonic control device is rife with charlatans.  Some may be good, solid providers, others are sincere but don't have a sound basis for their devices effectiveness and others are full on lying, with devices that don't even have measurable output. It is a good field for scammers as proof of defectiveness is hard to come by.

[pete g]

yes, i could see how there are fakers out there. its funny. the dogs don't make a sound during the day. nothing, zelch. come 2am the fun starts. its so ill logical. during the day there are all kinds of disturbances and activity. at 2am, you can hear a pin drop and thats when the dogs bark? go figure.

[coppercone2]

maybe its like going online

[RJSV]

   If you'd talk to that neighbor there might be surprises.
   Perhaps it's an older woman, widow and very sick.   A couple of my complaints were with next door having vicious-seeming pack of several dogs roaming.   So that was worse!
Maybe that neighbor has a small pet peeve, but against the folks that sold you your house, and doesn't even realize you are newer person living there.
   Lots and lots of 'irony' possible.   Plus, maybe you would 'blame' them for causing you to have to build such a device, in the first place (..?)