Author Topic: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus  (Read 8493 times)

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Offline SL4P

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Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« on: December 19, 2014, 10:47:07 pm »
Wouldn't it be nice to see more altruistic leaders like this!

http://fortune.com/2014/12/18/ceo-gives-back-bonus-says-he-doesnt-deserve-it/
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Online T3sl4co1l

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2014, 10:57:37 pm »
Is Dave a CEO?  Maybe he needs a bonus!  C'mon guys! ...Then again, just look at all those "gifts" he gets from the "Board" every Monday... :-DD

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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2014, 06:52:04 am »
The United States of Greed... http://www.paywatch.org/

Recommended book on how a CEO can get rich by destroying his own company... http://www.amazon.com.au/The-Decline-Fall-IBM-American-ebook/dp/B00KRHWZ22



« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 06:54:47 am by VK3DRB »
 

Offline Falcon69

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2014, 06:56:25 am »
I remember a few years back that some guy won the McDonald's $1,000,000 boardwalk piece.  He donated the whole money to a charity. He did not want it.  Howver, the government saw it as an income, and he had to pay tax for it.

now, I have never donated that kind of money, but I think the US has a limit to how much you can actually write off for a donation to a charity.  I think that guy ended up owing alot.

I wonder if the same thing will happen to this guy.  Will the government see that 2mil as an income that he gave away?
 

Offline JoeO

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2014, 04:48:47 pm »
I remember a few years back that some guy won the McDonald's $1,000,000 boardwalk piece.  He donated the whole money to a charity. He did not want it.  Howver, the government saw it as an income, and he had to pay tax for it.

now, I have never donated that kind of money, but I think the US has a limit to how much you can actually write off for a donation to a charity.  I think that guy ended up owing alot.

I wonder if the same thing will happen to this guy.  Will the government see that 2mil as an income that he gave away?
Last time I checked, you can only write off 50% of your Gross Income that you donate to charity.  You can donate all of your income but you will end up paying income tax on 50%.   
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2014, 05:12:06 pm »
That portion of the code was revised by the dear leader over the last 2 - 3 years, on the notion that the government is more efficient in managing your charitable givings than you can ever hope to be.

Quote
Wouldn't it be nice to see more altruistic leaders like this!

It is in the eyes of its beholder. I don't think anyone should give anything back as long as it is consistent with the employment agreement. Whether someone is entitled to his earnings is up to that person's employer and none of my business.
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2014, 05:39:18 pm »
I remember a few years back that some guy won the McDonald's $1,000,000 boardwalk piece.  He donated the whole money to a charity. He did not want it.  Howver, the government saw it as an income, and he had to pay tax for it.

If I remember right from a story, there was also a famous boxing champion who had donated all his income from a winning championship to the US military and later the IRS wanted their portion and this guy never recovered.

On the other side, the people who often collect the donations pay no taxes at all.

The pay of some CEO's has gotten out of hand completely and it would be great to see more of them do just this.
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2014, 06:09:33 pm »
Quote
The pay of some CEO's has gotten out of hand completely and it would be great to see more of them do just this.

Market dictates how much they, or anyone for that matter, should be paid.

If the shareholders think those ceos (or athletes or actors or anyone) are overpaid, they just need to pay them less. Until that has happened, I don't think anyone of us can insist that someone or some groups are overpaid.
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2014, 06:14:18 pm »
The envy and jealousy people have towards wealthy businessmen is one of the most dangerous things we face in this country (and this world).  What's wrong with success?  What's wrong with doing such a good job that you earn millions (or tens of millions, or hundreds of millions) for your work? 

Looking at the website posted for executive pay, you get down to #65 before you find someone making less than $20MM a year.  But looking through the companies listed, it's a veritable "who's who" list of successful businesses.  Time Warner, Cisco, LinkedIn, CBS, Oracle, Disney, American Express, Discover Financial, Exxon Mobil, Hasbro, Visa, Boeing, Ford.

And that is a worldwide list.  Sorry, I just don't have any problem whatsoever with there being 65 CEO's in this whole world who are earning $20MM a year. 

Especially not when the pay is WAY more out of whack in the sports world or the entertainment world. Looking at the top paid athletes list, #100 is soccer player Luis Suarez who earned $34.6MM last year.  The actors list is even more lopsided... there are dozens of actors earning >$20MM a year.  Leonardo Di Caprio is getting $77MM per movie.  Adam Sandler is getting $40MM per movie.  Johnny Depp is at $50MM per movie.

Yet all people whine about is CEO's.  Well... being the CEO of a huge company is an extremely difficult job that the vast majority of people could never do.  There is a hell of a lot more at stake in regards to whether the CEO of American Express is doing a good job as compared to whether the latest Ben Stiller movie is any good - yet Ben Stiller is paid 50% more than the Amex CEO. 

Out of whack indeed.
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2014, 06:17:36 pm »
Quote
The pay of some CEO's has gotten out of hand completely and it would be great to see more of them do just this.

Market dictates how much they, or anyone for that matter, should be paid.

If the shareholders think those ceos (or athletes or actors or anyone) are overpaid, they just need to pay them less. Until that has happened, I don't think anyone of us can insist that someone or some groups are overpaid.

If anything is wrong, it is a disconnect between pay and liability/results.  And I place the blame for that at the feet of the gov't.  They are the only ones who can fix the problem.  The gov't is tasked with handling monopolies and anti-trust issues.  And if there is such a thing as "too big to fail" or potentially fatal systemic risk, then that is the govt's fault for not handling it.  Same with wall street... the gov't are the regulators... so if the deck is overly stacked against the private investor - that's entirely the fault of the regulators - the only ones empowered to do anything about it.
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Offline Galenbo

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2014, 09:35:24 pm »
Wouldn't it be nice to see more altruistic leaders like this!


-He's the boss, so who decided in the first place to do the transfer?
-What is the other payments he gets, and how does it compare to this?
-It's stock he would get, and it stays in the company now. I can grow faster now, returning more.
-Maybe there are more efficient ways now to do the company --> ceo transfer, they will do that next week.
-Maybe he is forced to do it, after a loud yelling meeting where the CFO ons CTO shouted they will leave the company
...


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Offline SL4P

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2014, 10:08:21 pm »
Quote
If the shareholders think those ceos (or athletes or actors or anyone) are overpaid, they just need to pay them less. Until that has happened, I don't think anyone of us can insist that someone or some groups are overpaid.

Sorry dannyf, but I think that's oversimplifying it a bit.  There are often immutable clauses in place that prevent exactly that sort of thing.

The same way politicians privileges are ensured to remain in place - protecting the 'next guy' that will take office after 'struggling' for two years to earn that high position.

We western democracies have created a real cesspool of expectations.
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Offline Wilksey

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2014, 10:18:30 pm »
I expect the publicity paid more than the shares...
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2014, 10:19:09 pm »
Quote
There are often immutable clauses in place that prevent exactly that sort of thing.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Think about you hiring a guy to manage your store for you. He wants X and you want to offer Y and you don't have a deal so you keep moving on until you find a guy willing to take Y or you are willing to offer X.

It is idiotic for you to complain about paying too much and then continue to pay too much willingly.

Again, the beauty of capitalism is that not one person decides the prices of any goods, and services, including the CEOs', that clear the market. If you find that too tough to live with, well, there is always a planned economy near you.
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Offline SL4P

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2014, 10:21:21 pm »
I agree with your last two paragraphs, but the first is a very shallow assumption - which in many modern contracts is simply not true.

Thank the lawyers for that. Not me.
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Offline miguelvp

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2014, 10:57:15 pm »
The board is his boss and they gave it to him as a retention bonus.

The stock was not vested anyways and as long as it's not vested and sold there are no taxes to pay as far as I know.

Market estipulate the pay of everyone, including CEOs

Even if he returned the bonus, he assured that he is not leaving.

I've gotten retention bonuses before, not to that extent but I can't complain about them. If you are hard to replace and your contribution is pivotal for your company it's not unheard of getting some multi year bonus incentives.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2014, 11:01:13 pm »
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2014, 11:19:16 pm »
The United States of Greed... http://www.paywatch.org/

I'm not sure how the list of the 2013 100 highest paid CEOs from that link was compiled but it must not include all compensation. Perhaps salary only?  For example it does not include JP morgan CEO Jamie Dimon who in 2013 was paid $20 million despite the companies poor performance

The total compensation for many CEO's, especially in the finance industry, dwarfs their actual "salary".  Combine that with several tax avoidance loop holes such as Carried Interest allowing them to pay a much lower tax rate that us mere mortals and yes, greed is the appropriate word.

It's no wonder that the ratio of CEO to average worker pay has risen to extraordinary levels in the past several decades.

The fact that "Nearly 40 percent of the CEOs on the highest-paid lists from the past 20 years were eventually "bailed out, booted, or busted. makes the concept that the US is a meritocracy a farce.

I personally know one current Fortune 500 CEO and one who is retired. Both admit the system is far out of whack.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 11:25:17 pm by mtdoc »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2014, 11:29:36 pm »
Yet all people whine about is CEO's.  Well... being the CEO of a huge company is an extremely difficult job that the vast majority of people could never do.  There is a hell of a lot more at stake in regards to whether the CEO of American Express is doing a good job as compared to whether the latest Ben Stiller movie is any good - yet Ben Stiller is paid 50% more than the Amex CEO. 

Comparing CEO's with movie or sports stars is a bit apples and oranges.
Movie and sports stars create entertainment for the masses, CEO's get huge salaries to ruin corporations and lay off employees at the expense of short term profits. CEO's have responsibilities for sometimes hundreds of thousands employees who rely on their jobs for wages.
When Ben Stiller makes a bad movie, thousands of people are not layed off. In fact they were employed and the movie probably at least broke even.
I doubt that few people have any problem with CEO's getting huge salaries when the company does well, and people are not laid off at the expense of short term profit.
 

Offline Vgkid

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2014, 05:41:58 am »
http://www.ietlabs.com/genrad_history/historic_books
Alternately read up on a company founded by an engineer and run by one, and the problems that it ended up creating.
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Hoping this sends a message: CEO returns bonus
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2014, 07:09:05 am »

Well... being the CEO of a huge company is an extremely difficult job that the vast majority of people could never do.

Out of whack indeed.

Being a top electronics engineer or embedded programmer is also an extremely difficult job that the vast majority of people could never do. Many big companies owe their existence to engineers, without whom they would not have a product or they would have been out of business years ago.

Observing greed has nothing to do with jealousy. It has everything to do with fairness.

CEOs are slick salesmen, whose job is to keep the share price high and in doing so can pocket a fortune in share options within a short time frame. IBM did that, but screwed many of their employees. In my case when they sold us off to a shonky start-up company, they confiscated $40,000 of my pension money in 1998. That was under the CEO Louis B. Gerstner, and the Chairman of IBM Australia Robert Savage. Gerstner walked out with $189 million severance pay.

There is one CEO and leader who has earned enormous respect despite an incredible level of adversity... Howard Lutnick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Lutnick. There are few CEO's made of the material Howard Lutnick is made of.
 


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