Unusual design of a free-flow hydropower station

[eutectique]

It can be done in one sentence.
"A principle has been developed on which free-flow hydraulic turbines of various designs can be designed with increased energy efficiency"

Good. Anything else to discuss here?

[Hydro]

Yes.
Did you want to leave?
All the best !
See you again!

[eutectique]

Yes.
Did you want to leave?
All the best !
See you again!

I will stay, thank you.

[Hydro]

If no one has anything to say about this article.
Then I'll show you another couple of them.
There are already more complex specific hydraulic terms.

[ebastler]

I don't understand your goal in this overall discussion. If you believe in this stuff, go ahead and invest in it (your money and/or your time) and get rich! Why do you feel the need to convince a bunch of strangers on an internet forum?

[Hydro]

Everything is moving.
And here is the goal:

FORUM RULES

"Open sharing of ideas and content is important. Links to and promotion of other forums and content IS ENCOURAGED! (this isn't a jealously protected forum, unlike some others)"

[ebastler]

If that was meant to be an answer to my question, I am sorry to say it is not. I would appreciate if you could explain what motivated you to join this forum specifically to advocate this technology, and what you expect to get out of this.

You are under no obligation to do that, of course, but a plausible explanation might help your standing.

[IanB]

Here is the continuation of the article. It’s written there in black and white, if anyone hasn’t understood yet.

There is nothing in that article of substance from an engineering point of view. It has no reference to prior art, no comparisons, and no meaningful numbers. It looks nothing like a scientific paper.

[Hydro]

If that was meant to be an answer to my question, I am sorry to say it is not. I would appreciate if you could explain what motivated you to join this forum specifically to advocate this technology,

Answer - popularization this idea.
Do you think this is bad?

and what you expect to get out of this.

What I expected is what I get - answers, reactions, opinions etc.

[Canis Dirus Leidy]

Звучит гимн Союза Советских Социалистических Республик:

[Andy Chee]

Закон сохранения энергии в гидродинамике vs понятие альтернативной энергии. Критические заметки по поводу статьи «Альтернативная энергетика vs лженаука»
и цитированных и нецитированных в ней работ.

The law of conservation of energy in hydrodynamics vs the concept of alternative energy. Critical notes on the article “Alternative energy vs pseudoscience”
and works cited and uncited therein.

[ebastler]

I don't think this proposal conflicts with the conservation of energy. I just think it is not very practical.

You can, of course, design a device which extracts energy from water by using the difference in the water's potential energy (i.e. a height difference) rather than its kinetic energy. And you can arrange things such that the water flow speed is higher after the device than in front of it. This device is called a dam. 

And you can, of course, create a "dynamic dam" by putting some obstruction into flowing water. This will also create a height difference behind vs. before the obstruction, and a speed difference (because you slow down the flow in front of the obstruction). By letting some water flow through a little turbine or whatever other mechanism you fancy, I'm sure you can extract some power.

I have no idea whether and how the guys in the initial video are connected with the guy who wrote that paper. Their contraption with the "blades on a belt" seems like a very inefficient way to create an obstruction in flowing water and extract some power from it.

[tggzzz]

Thank you.

Perhaps, this explanation brought you to some conclusions, practical or otherwise.

Would you please share them in 3-6 sentences?

It can be done in one sentence.
"A principle has been developed on which free-flow hydraulic turbines of various designs can be designed with increased energy efficiency"

So what? Principles mean absolutely nothing until they have been demonstrated to be correct and independently duplicated.

Science 101:

• observe something
• develop a principle/hypothesis that explains the observation
• based on the principle/hypothesis, make a prediction that can be proved and disproved
• develop a test that for that prediction, ensuring it proves or disproves the prediction
• do the test
• publish the principle, the prediction, the test, and the test results in sufficient detail that someone else can duplicate them
• if necessary, return to (2)

So far you have only mentioned step two. Where are steps 3,4,5,6,7 documented?

[IanB]

You can, of course, design a device which extracts energy from water by using the difference in the water's potential energy (i.e. a height difference) rather than its kinetic energy.

Practical hydro-power units make use of elevation difference (head, potential energy), since this is much more useful energetically than velocity (kinetic energy).

For example, to change the elevation of 1 kg of water by 1 m corresponds to a potential energy change of 9.8 J. To change the kinetic energy of that 1 kg of water by the same 9.8 J you would have to accelerate it to 4.4 m/s or 16 km/h, which is much faster than the typical flow velocity of a river, which would typically be only a fraction of that.

Therefore practical small scale hydro-systems (like water wheels) divert the water down a side channel while the river falls, and then let the water descend back to the river over the wheel, using gravity to do the work.

Well engineered hydraulic turbines can have a mechanical efficiency around 90%, so there are only marginal gains to be made by improving on this. Claims of a 3x improvement in efficiency would only hold water if the original efficiency was less than 30%, which is terrible by most standards.

In any hydro-power system, if the water leaves the apparatus at high velocity it is taking kinetic energy with it and therefore reducing the efficiency.

[Hydro]

I don't think this proposal conflicts with the conservation of energy.

I think so too. Or rather, I'm sure of it

This device is called a dam.

The fact of the matter is that it is without a dam

I have no idea whether and how the guys in the initial video are connected with the guy who wrote that paper. Their contraption with the "blades on a belt" seems like a very ineffective way to create an obstruction in flowing water and extract some power from it.

The guy who wrote the article, in my opinion, did not show any design at all, only a diagram.
Does the guy’s contraption from this video also seem ineffective to you?

[ebastler]

The fact of the matter is that it is without a dam

Are you able to read more than one paragraph? I wrote another one. They are not that long.

Does the guy’s contraption from this video also seem ineffective to you?

I don't think I want to jump through every hoop you hold up, and I certainly don't want to download some surprise video. Unsubscribing from this thread now.

[soldar]

Does the guy’s contraption from this video also seem ineffective to you?

[soldar]

Their contraption with the "blades on a belt" seems like a very inefficient way to create an obstruction in flowing water and extract some power from it.

All the time we are faced in the news with inventions that will revolutionize the world... or so we are told. Young reporters, who do not know the difference between a V and a W or between their ass and a hole in the ground, report the new found miracle and the public mostly doesn't care much except for a few who really want to believe. The believe a loner in his home has come up with something which escaped the developers and investigators of companies who spend millions on R&D.

A few months back, in Spain, we had to hear the case of a young engineer inventor who had "invented" a reverse turbine for airplanes with the blades pointing inwards from a belt. The reporter did not feel the need to consult with anybody who actually works in this field, some jet engine builder, no, the young kid talking to her was totally convincing.

https://www.elespanol.com/omicrono/tecnologia/20230205/invento-espanol-revolucionara-aviones-gracias-ingeniero-cordobes/736176474_0.html

https://s1.eestatic.com/2023/01/31/omicrono/tecnologia/737936338_230530709_1706x960.jpg

[langwadt]

Their contraption with the "blades on a belt" seems like a very inefficient way to create an obstruction in flowing water and extract some power from it.

All the time we are faced in the news with inventions that will revolutionize the world... or so we are told. Young reporters, who do not know the difference between a V and a W or between their ass and a hole in the ground, report the new found miracle and the public mostly doesn't care much except for a few who really want to believe. The believe a loner in his home has come up with something which escaped the developers and investigators of companies who spend millions on R&D.

A few months back, in Spain, we had to hear the case of a young engineer inventor who had "invented" a reverse turbine for airplanes with the blades pointing inwards from a belt. The reporter did not feel the need to consult with anybody who actually works in this field, some jet engine builder, no, the young kid talking to her was totally convincing.

https://www.elespanol.com/omicrono/tecnologia/20230205/invento-espanol-revolucionara-aviones-gracias-ingeniero-cordobes/736176474_0.html

https://s1.eestatic.com/2023/01/31/omicrono/tecnologia/737936338_230530709_1706x960.jpg

well it would "solve" the real problem of a fitting a bigger fans for more efficiency, under the wings of current plans, but at the cost of adding a bunch of unsolvable problems  making it totally pointless... Rube Goldberg would be proud

[soldar]

well it would "solve" the real problem of a fitting a bigger fans for more efficiency, under the wings of current plans, but at the cost of adding a bunch of unsolvable problems  making it totally pointless... Rube Goldberg would be proud

I think some engineers, some people, fall in love with some idea they had and they just want to find the problem they could solve with this "solution" so they keep looking for the problem which would be solved by their solution which is no solution at all.

I admit I am somewhat guilty of it. Sometimes I am not really looking for a simple or practical solution but for an ingenious or elegant solution.

[Infraviolet]

" I think some engineers, some people, fall in love with some idea they had and they just want to find the problem they could solve with this "solution" "
Even worse is when governments gets caught up in this kind of thinking.

[SiliconWizard]

Isn't this what we're currently doing with AI?

[Hydro]

I don't think this proposal conflicts with the conservation of energy. I just think it is not very practical.
..........
I have no idea whether and how the guys in the initial video are connected with the guy who wrote that paper. Their contraption with the "blades on a belt" seems like a very ineffective way to create an obstruction in flowing water and extract some power from it.

I take it that no more questions have arisen so far?
So far it has only been proven that all this does not contradict the law of conservation of energy and that the shown design does seem like a very inefficient.

But It seems to me that in this article the author draws attention precisely to the principle of operation, focusing not on the design of this device, but on the fact that various designs of such devices can be developed on this principle.
Probably this design was taken as an example in which it was easiest to explain the principle.

No questions anymore ?
May I continue?

[Hydro]

Звучит гимн Союза Советских Социалистических Республик:
(Attachment Link)

What is it ?
Is this in Polish?

[Andy Chee]

Звучит гимн Союза Советских Социалистических Республик:
(Attachment Link)

What is it ?
Is this in Polish?

It's the same language as Mr. GV Treshchalov.