Unusual design of a free-flow hydropower station

[Hydro]

I wanted to discuss one design of a free-flow hydroelectric power station.
To start, here's a video I came across online.



If anyone is interested, I will try to explain the principle of operation as I understand it

[Hydro]

Nobody is interested, thanks.

Are you "nobody" ?

[Hydro]

This is not our video. Some kind of development from Romania.
As the developers say (automatic translation into English):

The design is a system (two rows) of rectangular blades (flat plate), the axes of which divide them into two unequal parts, the larger of which is always (due to the action of the flow) located behind the axis further downstream.
The axes of the blades, with their upper and lower parts, are, in turn, fixed to the upper and lower chains closed in rings (or to any other flexible element).
The chains transmit force through sprockets (impellers) to two vertical shafts, from which the mechanical energy of the moving medium (water, air, etc.) is transmitted through a flexible coupling and intermediate shaft to the shafts of electric generators.






The designers state that:

1. Behind the turbine, the water has a speed 2-3 times greater than the flow entering the turbine.
2. Behind the turbine, the water level drops (exactly how much is not specified).
3. A few meters down from the turbine, a certain stable water vortex appears.
4. The power that such a hydraulic station produces is 2-3 times higher than a conventional free-flow turbine of the same size.

I would like to start by discussing how real this is and is it possible?

[langwadt]

low speed and no more torque than he can easily stop by hand...

[Hydro]

Well, actually, for now I’m only talking about the fact that - Behind the turbine, the water has a speed 2-3 times greater than the flow entering the turbine.
How can this provide power and also accelerate the flow?

Here's another video, it's more clear here.

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

Just a Guess:Those blades look like airplane wings and are using the flow on one side to create "lift".Perhaps they mean the water flow on one side of the Hydrofoil is greater that that on the other side??

[coromonadalix]

and you dont call that turbine by the way

too much mechanics  in this, reliability over time    meh 

having used real turbines would have help, increased strenght and torque for a generator,   even recycled converted washing machine motors would have been better

and having the "propeller blade"  going opposite ways in the center kill efficiency, check the drag / turbulence they make, thats a big  NO, you dont want that in any systems


but not practical in any ways  for efficent energy production

you have tons of water entering it, it turn slowly, and the guy was able to stop it by hand,  means no torque at all,  all eficiency is lost  even if you say the water speed is higher at the output ...

check water turbines efficiency
check water paddle wheels efficiency

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

Agree  with Coromonadalix. 
Does not appear to be very efficient; 

Maybe some sort of effort to not chop up fish like turbines are apt to do?

[Hydro]

Don't rush to conclusions
It seems to me that this is only a small-scale prototype, and larger stations are free from these shortcomings.
That's what they claim

Throughout the world, power supply to remote areas, where people do not have access to a stable power supply, is a problem. According to reports by the International Energy Agency, some 1.4 billion people have limited or no access to electricity in the world. Some 300 million of them live near rivers.

To develop social infrastructure and agriculture in such areas, the governments of different countries build thermal power plants (TPPs), large hydropower plants and nuclear power plants (NPPs), as well as expensive power lines with associated infrastructure (transformers and high-voltage substations ) to deliver electricity to remote consumers. However, these projects are very time-consuming and require huge initial investment.

Conventional dam-based hydropower has peaked, and further expansion and development are hindered by resource depletion. There are fewer suitable locations for new power generation facilities.

A gradual transition is underway to alternative forms of hydropower, including technologies using low-grade energy sources such as the flow of rivers, canals, and sea and oceanic streams. They represent a promising direction for development, but are not yet fully-fledged competitors to traditional hydropower.

We propose a solution involving a free-flow hydraulic turbine with enhanced energy efficiency. Our technical know-how based on ingenious scientific research represents an innovative step towards the future of energy development.

The technology of small and micro free-flow hydropower systems may partially solve this problem at minimal cost and at the same time decentralize energy production for various consumers.

When implemented, such technologies will help to supply electricity to remote areas, farmlands, farmers and others as the basic or back-up source of energy supply for consumers or can be used for irrigation without the use of electricity. Therefore, the governments of many countries in the developing world are encouraging the development of small and micro HPPs to resolve the problem.

Farmers, families and small enterprises located near rivers and canals highlighted the problem of unstable electricity supply to consumers and for irrigation, leading to the desire to solve these problems.

It is also an important and positive factor for the implementation of micro free-flow hydropower stations in countries with warm climates where watercourses do not freeze in winter. This helps to increase the quantity of these turbines’workhours during the year and to generate more energy compared to countries that do not have such climate advantages.

Small hydropower has enormous potential to stimulate the use of renewables but it is not well-enough developed in the world. However, thanks to increasing fuel prices and efforts to cut polluting emissions in line with the 2015 Paris Agreement, there is a global trend to develop renewable technologies.


            Many countries in Africa, South America, Australia and other regions have a lot of opportunities in this area. This is why we believe that this market segment is huge. This is why our product – micro free-flow hydropower stations - will be in high demand and help to supply water to irrigate farmlands without electricity or fuel costs and to generate cheap electricity.

[coromonadalix]

@ Hydro   you dont seem neutral in all of this,   are you one of the guys ??  even if you say you're not

what i've written is evidence, and you clearly see it on this demo, small scale experiment, if you say otherwise that's up to you

you are biaised in some way's

because you absolutely want to try explaining things that we dont necessarly need or want to get, you seem to force your way in ...



But i do understand energy requirements, and everything related to that,  no need of your lenghty explanation

but they must be done with intelligence,  wich this product is not

bbye

[Andy Chee]

Looks like a Darrieus wind turbine, but stretched out along a track.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrieus_wind_turbine

Which reminds be of this youtube video where they stretched a RC plane propeller out along a track:

[coromonadalix]

lolll     

here we go again, saw that in the past      yes the video is some mythbster revival as some comment say, love the square one  loll

man  the mecanics involved in this kill the efficiency

[Hydro]

Hydro you dont seem neutral in all of this, are you one of the guys ?? even if you say you're not

you are biased in some way's

I want to be a participant in this project and popularize the idea.
Do you see something reprehensible in this?

[coromonadalix]

YES   

if for yourself you want to believe it, go ahead, feel good participate or invest, BUT dont bring others with you

and i maintain the fact with everything you wrote,  that you are biaised in some ways    when you wrote / quote :  We propose a solution involving ...

YOU are not neutral and, and i do think you have some objectives in mind using the "WE" sentence of your quoting

you do publicity for the others / unknown in this video /  even if they are totally it the wrong or not, YOU DO publicity for them,  thats not being neutral

and once again dont push your beliefs on others

thats all

il  stay out of this


oh and i see you go in other threads  loll     

[Hydro]

YES   
if want for yourself, go ahead, feel good participate or invest, BUT dont bring others with you

Why not ? Is this forbidden by someone?

and i maintain the fact with everything you wrote,  that you are biaised in some ways    when you wrote / quote :  We propose a solution involving ...

YOU are not neutral and, and i do think you have some objectives in mind using the WE sentence
 

That was a quote.
That's what THEY wrote, that's what I quoted

[Hydro]

This is not our video. Some kind of development from Romania.
As the developers say (automatic translation into English):



The designers state that:

Despite the kinematic awkwardness of this turbine, the developers claim that it is 2-3 times more energy efficient than its analogues of the same size

Pay attention to what they write:

1. Behind the turbine, the water has a speed 2-3 times greater than the flow entering the turbine.
2. Behind the turbine, the water level drops (exactly how much is not specified).
3. A few meters down from the turbine, a certain stable water vortex appears.
4. The power that such a hydraulic station produces is 2-3 times higher than a conventional free-flow turbine of the same size.

[Infraviolet]

There was a video shared recently, I think on Hackaday, of a "turbine" system of this kind. The concept derived from a wind turbine build using sails mounted on cables which moved round a "railway". Someone 3d printed one with tank-trak style links in place of the cables, it did rotate when a fan's blast was directed at it, but there would be a lotof losses to friction from the moving track links. The key idea was that having the tracks/cables on the outside of the blades impoved the area covered, or something similar, but I expect any advantages would be outweighed by the problems of extra moving parts.

[Hydro]

Yes, as I said, this particular design is mechanically not very efficient.

But for now I wanted to draw attention to the principle of its operation.
And on this principle it is possible to construct a kinematically more advanced design.

Follow the topic.

[Andy Chee]

And on this principle it is possible to construct a kinematically more advanced design.

It is not possible because.... physics.

[Hydro]

I'll show you the calculation.
You will have the opportunity to disprove it using physics.

[Hydro]

Go ahead !
(this is not the whole article, only half so far)

[IanB]

I tried to wade through that article, but I don't have much time for it. It seems like non-scientists and non-engineers trying to do science and engineering. As a result there are lots of superfluous words, extraneous details and complex, unnecessary descriptions that hide a clear understanding of the core principles at play.

[Hydro]

If you're short on time, then don't read it.
It will be better

And on this principle it is possible to construct a kinematically more advanced design.

It is not possible because.... physics.

Andy Chee
I'll give you a couple of days to find the error here.
Then I'll post the rest of the article.
It's not as simple as this anymore

[voltsandjolts]

I think it would be best if this thread were locked.
That way, it would avoid wasting the time of all involved here, and Hydro could get on with changing the world and making his fortune. Elsewhere.

[Hydro]

What don't you like here?
No one is going to change the world.
Innovative technology is being developed.
Can you actually say something?