UPS brokerage fee from china to US (ebay)

[linux-works]

this really blindsighted me.  I ordered an item from ebay/china and paid for expedited service.  little did I know (and I was not informed) that the seller picked UPS.  I have never used UPS before for international shipments and this is probably going to be my last.  I've used DHL and EMS and never had to pay 'brokerage fees' or import fees or duties.  but with this UPS pkg, it seems the pkg is on 'governmental hold' and god knows how long that will take to clear or even how much it will cost me.

I'd like to hear what your experience is from UPS china-to-US shipping.  how long has the hold been?  how much were you charged?  were you able to work this out with the seller?

the seller said nothing about this on their ad and I was not expecting to 'double pay' UPS just to deliver the damned package!

what a friggin waste of time and ripoff.  I'm not happy about this at all.

[BravoV]

Yep, that brokerage fee, uniquely UPS well known signature. 

Thats why most customer will sigh "Ups ...#%&@  !" whenever they deal with them for the 1st time and and most never look back. Yep, bitten once. 

[linux-works]

here's the item I bought.  does anyone see where ANY mention of import fees would be charged or even that UPS would be used?

I paid the higher shipping cost to get it here sooner.  it said FEDEX and not UPS.  I would not have picked UPS if the seller was honest with me.  it seems he picked what he wanted and never asked if this was ok.  as an international seller, shouldn't he have KNOWN that this would casuse grief and delay and extra payment?  I bet most of his sales are to the US and so he should have known better.  correct?

this is the item:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301081285734

if I'm the one at fault, I'll accept that, but I don't see how this would be my fault or why I should have to pay for UPS fees.

what do you guys think?

[gxti]

If you asked for FedEx and got UPS, that's the seller's problem.

Paying import duties, however, is the buyer's problem. Both legally and from a practical perspective. You can't possibly expect a seller to understand every country's customs shenanigans, can you? It's impossible enough already to deal with just one.

[tjb1]

here's the item I bought.  does anyone see where ANY mention of import fees would be charged or even that UPS would be used?

I paid the higher shipping cost to get it here sooner.  it said FEDEX and not UPS.  I would not have picked UPS if the seller was honest with me.  it seems he picked what he wanted and never asked if this was ok.  as an international seller, shouldn't he have KNOWN that this would casuse grief and delay and extra payment?  I bet most of his sales are to the US and so he should have known better.  correct?

this is the item:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301081285734

if I'm the one at fault, I'll accept that, but I don't see how this would be my fault or why I should have to pay for UPS fees.

what do you guys think?

Bad feedback or open a claim.  I bought an item specifically because it said UPS Ground and was nearby over other items further away, they shipped the package UPS Surepost which is the UPS/USPS handoff crap and took longer than any of the others would have taken.  I sent them a message about it and they refunded me so I didn't need a claim but I may still leave feedback about them using cheap shipping methods.

[Corporate666]

this really blindsighted me.  I ordered an item from ebay/china and paid for expedited service.  little did I know (and I was not informed) that the seller picked UPS.  I have never used UPS before for international shipments and this is probably going to be my last.  I've used DHL and EMS and never had to pay 'brokerage fees' or import fees or duties.  but with this UPS pkg, it seems the pkg is on 'governmental hold' and god knows how long that will take to clear or even how much it will cost me.

I'd like to hear what your experience is from UPS china-to-US shipping.  how long has the hold been?  how much were you charged?  were you able to work this out with the seller?

the seller said nothing about this on their ad and I was not expecting to 'double pay' UPS just to deliver the damned package!

what a friggin waste of time and ripoff.  I'm not happy about this at all.

First off, are you sure that UPS is intending to charge you a brokerage fee?  Here is the UPS page that details those fees:

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs/fees.html

There should be no charge.  The only charge would be if the item is somehow deemed to be in some special category that requires additional clearance.  Does a rubidium standard require some sort of FDA approval or something?  I don't know.

However, I honestly don't think you have a valid gripe against the seller.  He used UPS instead of FedEX - his mistake on that, but FedEX charges brokerage fees as well, so I don't think the issue is that UPS was used.

As for those fees, you say you were never informed... but it's not the sellers responsibility to inform you of what your government might charge you to import a package.  And, if you look at the auction page, at the top besides shipping, there is a little question mark next to "details about international shipping".   Click that and it says "Sellers set the item's declared value and must comply with customs declaration laws.  Buyers may be subject to additional charges for customs clearance."

So you were informed that you may be subject to additional charges for customs clearance.

I know it's not prominent and eBay should make it more clear... but at the risk of sounding like a jerk, it's not the seller's fault that you weren't aware of how international shipping works or that you didn't realize our government sometimes charges fees for imports. 

Having said all that - he did ship with UPS instead of FedEx, but both services are equally fast in my experience, and both have pretty much the same rules about import fees and such, so that's not what is causing this issue.

[linux-works]

what annoys me the most is that I got a pkg from china just last week (chip programmer, minipro) and I paid for faster shipping, the shipper used DHL and things went fine.  no fees, no delays.

this time, the seller picked UPS entirely on his own.  for a seller that probably does more than half of his business selling to the US, he surely should have known this 'drill' and avoided it!

I guess from now on, I'll have to explicitly TELL the shipper to avoid using UPS even though UPS may not ever be mentioned as a shipping option.  it takes a lot of nerve to advertise 2 shipping options and then pick a third on your own and not even ask the buyer if that's ok.

this is the BS that makes me think twice about dealing with ebay/china.  sellers seem to just act on their own and think its perfectly fine!  ITS NOT PERFECTLY FINE.

the US does not usually charge import fees on ebay items.  I must have ordered 50 items from china over the past few years and not once was I charged any government or shipper fees.  this is why I'm so annoyed.  things normally work well but in this case, the shipper screwed up and didn't really think about what he was doing ;(

[G7PSK]

UPS always make a brokerage fee here in the UK a minimum of £11-00 whatever the value of the parcel if it is over £15-00 which is the point at which VAT and customs are charged but I had them charge that on an item that came to £14-98 including carriage. I just wont buy from any one that uses UPS either international or within the UK.
I did notice that the item indicated in the ebay listing did say it could be liable to customs tax and other charges.

[linux-works]

I did notice that the item indicated in the ebay listing did say it could be liable to customs tax and other charges.

I don't see that - and I did look all over the ad for any such wording.  can you take a snapshot of your screen?  sorry but I am just not seeing it (maybe my ad blockers are suppressing it even though I did turn them off to view this page).

I've had lots of items shipped from china; some slow boat and some in a week and never had to deal with 'brokerage fees'.  EMS and DHL don't charge them.  I have not used fedex-international and of course never used ups-international either.  every time I'm offered fast shipping from china its either DHL or EMS, both of which are reasonable services to the US.

[Len]

Paying import duties, however, is the buyer's problem. Both legally and from a practical perspective.

To be clear, the "brokerage fee" is not an import duty or tax paid to the government. This is a bogus fee charged by UPS. I've only had to pay it to UPS, not when shipping by post other carriers (US -> Canada).

[linux-works]

that's what I'm starting to understand; that by picking UPS all on his own, this seller has made things slower and possibly more expensive than it should have been.  I won't know if there is a bill until I 'hear back from them', whenever that is.  no date given.

I will now ask each non-US seller that I buy from to avoid UPS-international.  I am usually ok with UPS domestic, but this BS they are pulling on me is entirely unsatisfactory and I will not knowingly accept this run-around ever again!

[marshallh]

Every time I order a big box of boards from china UPS mails me a $30-40 invoice for brokerage fees.. But watch out! If you don't pay within 2 weeks they'll send you ANOTHER invoice for $1.70 interest on the amount

You will need to provide your gubbmint tax ID if the shipment is over $5k as well (or was it 7k?)

[linux-works]

this will be the last time I go thru this, as I'm going to get the seller to understand that UPS == trouble.

this is pure bullcookies.  can't believe the shipper put me thru this for no good reason at all.  sigh.

[ve7xen]

Technically, at least in Canada, the carrier must allow you the option of self-brokering the package. This generally means you pick up the package at the shipper's depot near the airport, bring it to customs with the necessary paperwork yourself, then return it to the shipper for final delivery. It is, as I understand (never bothered myself) a pain in the ass, and likely not made easier as the carriers make huge profits on their brokerage fees.

I have no idea why this particular package passed through customs, but rest assured that all of the carriers charge exhorbitant brokerage fees if they need to deal with customs on your behalf. It doesn't matter that it was UPS, unless they screwed up and brokered the package when it wasn't necessary for it to go through customs, I don't know the rules in the US so I can't comment on that.

That said, you Americans are spoiled with international customs. Your no-tax allowance is hundreds of dollars, so for the most part you're unaware that this is an issue for most of the rest of the world, as most items aren't eligible for import taxes.

I will now ask each non-US seller that I buy from to avoid UPS-international.  I am usually ok with UPS domestic, but this BS they are pulling on me is entirely unsatisfactory and I will not knowingly accept this run-around ever again!

For the same reason, I refuse to buy any eBay items from Americans that won't ship with USPS. If the item value is greater than $25 it will cost me a minimum of $20 in brokerage fees, with the local sales tax added on top too. Canada Post usually doesn't charge anything, and if they do, their brokerage rate is like $5 flat rate, while the major carriers start at $20 and go up with item value.

[MatCat]

I did notice that the item indicated in the ebay listing did say it could be liable to customs tax and other charges.

I don't see that - and I did look all over the ad for any such wording.  can you take a snapshot of your screen?  sorry but I am just not seeing it (maybe my ad blockers are suppressing it even though I did turn them off to view this page).

I've had lots of items shipped from china; some slow boat and some in a week and never had to deal with 'brokerage fees'.  EMS and DHL don't charge them.  I have not used fedex-international and of course never used ups-international either.  every time I'm offered fast shipping from china its either DHL or EMS, both of which are reasonable services to the US.

There you go:

[linux-works]

ah, its a pop-up or mouse-over.  gotcha.

not exactly right there for the buyer to see.  do they expect the buyer to have to mouser over every little screen widget?  sigh.

anyway, this is NOT a custom's fee.  this is a 'brokerage fee' and like people have said, its unique to UPS.  brokerage means 'we can screw you for extra cost because, well, "reasons"'.  and the seller probably should have known this.  after the email he and I had, I'm sure he knows it NOW!  not that I expect him to change his behavior; I'm sure he will continue right on doing this to customers.  I can't believe this was all news to him and that he has never gotton a complaint from buyers by his choice of UPS before.

[MatCat]

For future reference I refer DHL myself, I order PCBs from China, and often have them in my hand 4 days later from the day they ship.

[ve7xen]

anyway, this is NOT a custom's fee.  this is a 'brokerage fee' and like people have said, its unique to UPS.

It's most definitely not unique to UPS. I've been charged the same sort of fees by UPS, FedEx, and DHL. Basically it's a fee for them to deal with customs on your behalf, and if necessary pay the government on your behalf before receiving payment from you. A corollary being that if the carrier does the brokerage, you're guaranteed to pay any taxes owed, while the postal service will often let it slide.

This is a well known issue with international shipping. It may not be well known in the US due the very liberal customs rules, but if for some reason the carrier needs to hand the package to customs and take it back later, they're going to charge you for it regardless of whether you actually owed customs anything, and that's what this is.

and the seller probably should have known this.

American sellers on eBay are rarely aware of this issue, and don't seem to care when they are made aware. I would say the onus is on the buyer to handle the details of importing the item to their country. Now if he didn't send by the carrier you paid him to send by, you have a legitimate beef, but if this item for wahtever reason needed to pass through customs, I will guarantee you that any of the "ground" services from UPS/FedEx etc. would certainly charge you exhorbitantly for it. Express services often include brokerage, and the postal service usually charges very little and often doesn't bother.

IMO your beef should really be with the shipping companies and their rates, not the existence of the fee or the fact that the seller wasn't aware of exactly what US customs would want with the package. Unfortunately most people in the world that venture into small-scale online shops will have been bitten by this at least once. Constant vigilance is required to not have your packages held hostage in this manner.

[Corporate666]

ah, its a pop-up or mouse-over.  gotcha.

not exactly right there for the buyer to see.  do they expect the buyer to have to mouser over every little screen widget?  sigh.

anyway, this is NOT a custom's fee.  this is a 'brokerage fee' and like people have said, its unique to UPS.  brokerage means 'we can screw you for extra cost because, well, "reasons"'.  and the seller probably should have known this.  after the email he and I had, I'm sure he knows it NOW!  not that I expect him to change his behavior; I'm sure he will continue right on doing this to customers.  I can't believe this was all news to him and that he has never gotton a complaint from buyers by his choice of UPS before.

Honestly, you keep saying the seller is DOING something to you.  He's not.  UPS is.  And FedEX charges brokerage fees also... so it's not the way you're making it out to be - that his defiance of your instructions has cost you money.  You would be paying the same fee whether it shipped UPS or FedEX (or DHL).

Furthermore, it's not correct that US customs doesn't charge fees for eBay items.  Where the item was sold has nothing to do with it.  It's based on the commodity class and value, and country of origin. 

And if it is a brokerage fee, it is still covered under the disclaimer on the eBay site.  The brokerage fee is one that UPS charges the recipient for processing of the package through customs.   The eBay disclosure is about customs fees, not duty or taxes.  This UPS fee is included under that definition.

And finally, based on UPS' standard terms, you should NOT owe them any brokerage fees.  The only way you would owe brokerage fees on an imported package is if it required additional/special processing.  And that would only happen if either there is something specific which applies to a rubidium standard (maybe it falls under some sort of military exclusion or something - no idea), or if someone made a mistake and thought "rubidium = nuclear" and sent it off for FDA clearance or something.

In simpler terms, I think it is almost certain that UPS has made a mistake here.  You should find out what the charge amount is and what the reason for it is BEFORE!!!! (cannot stress this enough) you pay it.  It is much easier to get it straightened out before you pay anything - if anything is even due.

[Corporate666]

anyway, this is NOT a custom's fee.  this is a 'brokerage fee' and like people have said, its unique to UPS.

It's most definitely not unique to UPS. I've been charged the same sort of fees by UPS, FedEx, and DHL. Basically it's a fee for them to deal with customs on your behalf, and if necessary pay the government on your behalf before receiving payment from you. A corollary being that if the carrier does the brokerage, you're guaranteed to pay any taxes owed, while the postal service will often let it slide.

This is a well known issue with international shipping. It may not be well known in the US due the very liberal customs rules, but if for some reason the carrier needs to hand the package to customs and take it back later, they're going to charge you for it regardless of whether you actually owed customs anything, and that's what this is.

and the seller probably should have known this.

American sellers on eBay are rarely aware of this issue, and don't seem to care when they are made aware. I would say the onus is on the buyer to handle the details of importing the item to their country. Now if he didn't send by the carrier you paid him to send by, you have a legitimate beef, but if this item for wahtever reason needed to pass through customs, I will guarantee you that any of the "ground" services from UPS/FedEx etc. would certainly charge you exhorbitantly for it. Express services often include brokerage, and the postal service usually charges very little and often doesn't bother.

Excellent post.  Couple of things to keep in mind though is that UPS is an exception in being especially unfriendly to our Canadian friends.  They charge you guys, IIRC, a $50 brokerage fee always.  The fees are different depending on which country the recipient is located in, and they are almost always lower than Canada.  I am not sure what the reason is.  UPS imports so much stuff that they actually have their own staff employed by UPS but who are allowed to do importations... not sure if they are "Canada customs and border patrol" employees who are on some sort of work-share agreement and are paid by UPS, but I know UPS has their own customs processing and clearance staff... the packages don't ever leave UPS possession from the shipper right to the Canadian receiver.   I suspect whatever the terms are of UPS' agreement with the Canadian authorities that lets them handle the clearance and documentation are pretty onerous, and UPS therefore slaps a $50 fee on everyone.  Might be wrong, just a hunch based on what our UPS reps have said over the years.

You're correct that often American sellers are unaware, but I often find sellers are blindsided by enraged customers who are misplacing the blame (see this thread ).  If I ship US Postal, there is no tracking or insurance unless you go to the more expensive services - but something like Express Mail can easily be $50+ for a 1lb package.  If you ship the cheap way, the recipient gets angry when it doesn't arrive in a few days and has no tracking.  UPS will arrive in a few days and have full tracking, but they will charge a $50 brokerage fee.  It's often lose/lose for the seller unless they sell items cheaply enough that they can afford to deal with the occasional "item not received" claims and negative feedbacks from Canadian customers, or their items are expensive enough that they can justify the UPS or Express Mail postage + insurance fees. 

[linux-works]

I have NEVER had a 'brokerage' fee from china purchases, so this is NOT nearly as prevalent as you seem to make it out to be.

DHL has never charged me.  EMS has never charged me.  not for customs (US gov) and not for company-based bogus fees (such as what UPS is pulling).

I don't recall ever having fedex pkgs sent to me from overseas so I can't comment if they charge 'brokerage fees' too.

I do blame the seller since he picked UPS entirely on his own.  I'm not sure why you are defending him (are you him??) and, again, I'm not being charged CUSTOMS fees.  those are things he has no control over and I understand that.  but his choice of UPS clearly puts the buyer at higher risk of being charged the bilking fees from UPS.

[ve7xen]

I have NEVER had a 'brokerage' fee from china purchases, so this is NOT nearly as prevalent as you seem to make it out to be.

I have no idea how prevalent it is in the US, but it is a common "fee" for international carriage when crossing borders and customs has to be involved. It is extremely common for items imported to Canada, where UPS/FedEx/whoever will slap a $25 (and up, depending on declared value) fee on any package worth more than $25. There is no avoiding it here unless you broker yourself, which means a trip to the airport and a bunch of paperwork and hassle, or using the postal service, or simply shipping to a receiver in the US and picking it up yourself.

I am led to believe this is an even bigger problem in countries with stricter customs rules.

So yeah, it might be uncommon in the US, but you guys are the exception, not the rule.

I do blame the seller since he picked UPS entirely on his own.  I'm not sure why you are defending him (are you him??) and, again, I'm not being charged CUSTOMS fees.  those are things he has no control over and I understand that.  but his choice of UPS clearly puts the buyer at higher risk of being charged the bilking fees from UPS.

There are basically two options here for why you got charged brokerage, and neither has much to do with UPS being chosen per se:

a) This package needed to go through customs for some reason. I don't know US customs rules, but UPS/FedEx/etc. do, and if this package had to be cleared through customs, you will be charged brokerage. Period. There is no way around it with UPS & FedEx. If they can, they will charge you this fee, but obviously they can't charge you for it if they don't actually need to send the package through customs. This will happen with any carrier, it's a major revenue stream for them.

b) Somebody screwed up and thought this packaged needed to be cleared by customs, and sent it there, but in fact was incorrect and it should have been sent through without a customs visit based on the US rules. If that's the case, it was human error, you should contact UPS and clarify, and if they can't show why the package needed to be cleared, then you should demand (and receive) your package without fees. Human error could happen with any carrier.

So, I don't think the seller is really at fault for this. Either in the case of a), you weren't aware of your own country's customs rules, or b), someone at UPS made an error and you shouldn't really be blaming the seller for that.

Edit: UPS's policy for import into the US seems to include brokerage from everywhere except Canada (WTF??), but they do have various fees for special processing etc. which it sounds like you might have hit. What exactly is the line item called out as on the invoice they gave you? I guess the rubidium probably trigger some special inspection or something stupid.

[Corporate666]

I have NEVER had a 'brokerage' fee from china purchases, so this is NOT nearly as prevalent as you seem to make it out to be.

DHL has never charged me.  EMS has never charged me.  not for customs (US gov) and not for company-based bogus fees (such as what UPS is pulling).

I don't recall ever having fedex pkgs sent to me from overseas so I can't comment if they charge 'brokerage fees' too.

I do blame the seller since he picked UPS entirely on his own.  I'm not sure why you are defending him (are you him??) and, again, I'm not being charged CUSTOMS fees.  those are things he has no control over and I understand that.  but his choice of UPS clearly puts the buyer at higher risk of being charged the bilking fees from UPS.

I am not defending him - I am pointing out where you are making mistakes in your assumptions and where you are incorrect.  How do you know how prevalent these fees are?  It doesn't sound like you ship much with UPS (or other shippers) internationally.  Brokerage fees are probably the biggest issue with international shipping in terms of reasons for buyer/seller disputes. 

And I can tell you that the rules for brokerage fees are the same for FedEx as with UPS.  So blaming the seller because he chose UPS is incorrect... you are blaming the choice of UPS for the brokerage fee.  That's wrong - because it would be the same with FedEx.

You are not reading my post.  UPS does not charge brokerage fees for imports unless the item requires additional customs processing.  So if UPS is saying you owe money, then there is a reason.  Most likely someone has made a mistake along the line somewhere and by simply looking into it you can resolve it... but you are instead spending all your energy complaining here that it's all the sellers fault.  It isn't.  There is something about THIS PARTICULAR shipment that is causing UPS to think it needs additional clearance when it does not.  FedEx and DHL also charge brokerage fees when they must do additional customs work.  It is not a UPS thing, and it is not true that UPS opens you up to more likelihood of such fees (how would you know if you don't ship large volume, anyway?).

Get in touch with UPS and find out what exactly the fee is for and why it was applied to your shipment.  Give them the link I showed you that shows there is no charge for customs processing for imports from China. 

[linux-works]

there's nothing I can do right now but wait.  I already called and asked and they have my phone number, if/when they finally make up their mind about what they are going to do with my pkg.

I hear you say that fedex 'is the same' but I'm not hearing anyone else say that.  what I am hearing is that UPS is the worst and the biggest offender on these profit-grabbing fees.  if fedex also charges fees, they must be much smaller since I'm not hearing the same level of complaint as with UPS.

[KJDS]

I've had a £8.50 VAT and £11 brokerage bill from Fedex arrive this morning for an lcd display I bought from China to put on a sig-gen. The display was delivered a week ago.

I also bought the same display from the US, ordered two weeks before the Chinese one and it's still to arrive. I hope I don't get hit for the VAT and brokerage fees on that one.