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| US Ceiling Fan Efficiency Rule Proposal |
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| David Hess:
--- Quote from: PwrElectronics on September 02, 2023, 01:23:16 pm ---I finally found this article that goes into fans would have to change from AC to DC motors. To me, that means a circuit board and the fan is no longer a "passive" device. --- End quote --- That is right; the AC shaded pole or induction motor or whatever is replaced with an electronically commutated motor, which can be just a shaded pole motor armature with the current shorts removed and a rotor position sensor added. --- Quote ---Like a lot of other modern items that claim to save energy, the downside is reduced reliability when that control board fails. --- End quote --- Not only are electronically commutated motors a lot less reliable, but they are a lot more expensive. In 10 years I have had to replace the Swiss made electronically commutated motor for the evaporator fan in my Maytag refrigerator 5 times at a cost of more than $25 each time. I think what is going on is power line surges are burning out the electronics. Do you think a tiny shaded pole motor would have used $125 dollars worth of electricity over 10 years? |
| JPortici:
--- Quote from: NiHaoMike on September 02, 2023, 01:53:05 pm ---I think ceiling fans can get a lot more efficient merely by using a motor which is optimized for a single speed with low slip, the way multiple speeds is usually done is an ugly hack. And if BLDC ceiling fans become common, there likely would be a lot of generic driver boards for them like how there are a lot of generic ESCs for R/C motors. --- End quote --- These are things that should remain simple and dumb. It's just a ceiling fan, like it's just an hair drier. we tried to repair a dyson hair drier, no can do because the microcontroller failed. Sure it's a sleek design, sure it's quieter, sure it's more efficient, but the added complexity is not justified. Do you waste more energy with a dumb fan/drier/other tool that will probably break 20 years or more from now and are trivial to repair, or with multiple more efficient tools that don't last anywhere as much? |
| gnuarm:
--- Quote from: David Hess on September 05, 2023, 05:16:07 am --- --- Quote from: PwrElectronics on September 02, 2023, 01:23:16 pm ---I finally found this article that goes into fans would have to change from AC to DC motors. To me, that means a circuit board and the fan is no longer a "passive" device. --- End quote --- That is right; the AC shaded pole or induction motor or whatever is replaced with an electronically commutated motor, which can be just a shaded pole motor armature with the current shorts removed and a rotor position sensor added. --- Quote ---Like a lot of other modern items that claim to save energy, the downside is reduced reliability when that control board fails. --- End quote --- Not only are electronically commutated motors a lot less reliable, but they are a lot more expensive. In 10 years I have had to replace the Swiss made electronically commutated motor for the evaporator fan in my Maytag refrigerator 5 times at a cost of more than $25 each time. I think what is going on is power line surges are burning out the electronics. Do you think a tiny shaded pole motor would have used $125 dollars worth of electricity over 10 years? --- End quote --- I think I would not buy a Maytag any more. |
| David Hess:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on September 05, 2023, 09:57:05 am --- --- Quote from: David Hess on September 05, 2023, 05:16:07 am --- --- Quote from: PwrElectronics on September 02, 2023, 01:23:16 pm ---I finally found this article that goes into fans would have to change from AC to DC motors. To me, that means a circuit board and the fan is no longer a "passive" device. --- End quote --- That is right; the AC shaded pole or induction motor or whatever is replaced with an electronically commutated motor, which can be just a shaded pole motor armature with the current shorts removed and a rotor position sensor added. --- Quote ---Like a lot of other modern items that claim to save energy, the downside is reduced reliability when that control board fails. --- End quote --- Not only are electronically commutated motors a lot less reliable, but they are a lot more expensive. In 10 years I have had to replace the Swiss made electronically commutated motor for the evaporator fan in my Maytag refrigerator 5 times at a cost of more than $25 each time. I think what is going on is power line surges are burning out the electronics. Do you think a tiny shaded pole motor would have used $125 dollars worth of electricity over 10 years? --- End quote --- I think I would not buy a Maytag any more. --- End quote --- What brand would you buy? Most are owned by the same company as Maytag, and they all use the same motors anyway. Maytag, Whirlpool, Amana, Kenmore, LG, and Frigidaire are all the same company. |
| NiHaoMike:
--- Quote from: David Hess on September 05, 2023, 05:16:07 am ---Not only are electronically commutated motors a lot less reliable, but they are a lot more expensive. In 10 years I have had to replace the Swiss made electronically commutated motor for the evaporator fan in my Maytag refrigerator 5 times at a cost of more than $25 each time. I think what is going on is power line surges are burning out the electronics. Do you think a tiny shaded pole motor would have used $125 dollars worth of electricity over 10 years? --- End quote --- I would have replaced it with a PC type fan and a sealed Mean Well power supply module. I almost never see a PC fan fail for any reason other than worn out bearings. |
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