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US Ceiling Fan Efficiency Rule Proposal

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David Hess:

--- Quote from: NiHaoMike on September 05, 2023, 12:44:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: David Hess on September 05, 2023, 05:16:07 am ---Not only are electronically commutated motors a lot less reliable, but they are a lot more expensive.  In 10 years I have had to replace the Swiss made electronically commutated motor for the evaporator fan in my Maytag refrigerator 5 times at a cost of more than $25 each time.  I think what is going on is power line surges are burning out the electronics.

Do you think a tiny shaded pole motor would have used $125 dollars worth of electricity over 10 years?
--- End quote ---

I would have replaced it with a PC type fan and a sealed Mean Well power supply module. I almost never see a PC fan fail for any reason other than worn out bearings.
--- End quote ---

I was thinking of replacing it with the original shaded pole motor that the electronically commutated motor replaced.

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: NiHaoMike on September 05, 2023, 12:44:52 pm ---I almost never see a PC fan fail for any reason other than worn out bearings.
--- End quote ---
Dust kills them easily, so I'm not sure they live very long at the back of a fridge where dust tends to build up.

I just got a Noctua NF-A14 industrialPPC-3000 PWM fan (IP52 rating) I'll test my own PWM fan driver board with, that might be suitable, but it is also relatively expensive.  I haven't tested it yet, though.

My current fridge (Rosenlew) uses R600a refrigerant, a butane isomer, which has the downside of occasional gurgling noise after a cooling cycle.  It is definitely noisier than my previous one (Electrolux or Upo, can't recall).  I'm renting an apartment right now, so switching is not an option for now.


--- Quote from: David Hess on September 05, 2023, 05:16:07 am ---Not only are electronically commutated motors a lot less reliable, but they are a lot more expensive.  In 10 years I have had to replace the Swiss made electronically commutated motor for the evaporator fan in my Maytag refrigerator 5 times at a cost of more than $25 each time.  I think what is going on is power line surges are burning out the electronics.
--- End quote ---
I assume the airflow is okay, and that it was the controller that burned, not the motor itself?

Here in Finland, fridge-freezer combinations are often put inside kitchen cabinets, with insufficient airflow.  Often there is only the absolute minimum aperture above the fridge (for "exhaust", cold air intake being at the floor level behind the kickplate).  Many use that nice little slot for kitchen appliance paperwork, and don't realize that blocking it will cause the fridge to burn out in a few years.  (Mine has a moveable shelf above it, being cheap Ikea-style melamine-coated particle board cupboard, so I've moved it an inch higher, just to be sure.)

Some (non-industrial) motors also use bearings that do not tolerate dust, generating a heavy load as the grease and dust forms into a thick sticky heavy paste, eventually burning the motor out from the load.  Apparently, using rubber sealed bearings from the get go would have hurt the energy efficiency or cost too much, and it is more cost-effective to spec the motor at the very borderline of its load.  (I suspect, but am not sure, that it is the intermittent operation that allows the dust ingress into bearings unless sealed.)

David Hess:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 05, 2023, 02:58:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: David Hess on September 05, 2023, 05:16:07 am ---Not only are electronically commutated motors a lot less reliable, but they are a lot more expensive.  In 10 years I have had to replace the Swiss made electronically commutated motor for the evaporator fan in my Maytag refrigerator 5 times at a cost of more than $25 each time.  I think what is going on is power line surges are burning out the electronics.
--- End quote ---

I assume the airflow is okay, and that it was the controller that burned, not the motor itself?
--- End quote ---

The motors sure did not overheat, since it is mounted in the freezer adjacent to the evaporator.  And the failure is not in the bearings.  Every one failed by only turning at low speed.  The electronics are potted so there is no access.

Siwastaja:
Today electronics are literally everywhere, and relative to that widespreadness, reliability problems are rare. I don't think preferring older, less efficient (both energy efficiency and cost efficiency of manufacturing) just "for reliability" is a good argument. This is like saying we need to keep riding horses because some early cars were unreliable. Instead, we should demand reliable electronics, because the 99% of cases show that this is entirely possible.

gnuarm:

--- Quote from: Siwastaja on September 08, 2023, 11:12:11 am ---Today electronics are literally everywhere, and relative to that widespreadness, reliability problems are rare. I don't think preferring older, less efficient (both energy efficiency and cost efficiency of manufacturing) just "for reliability" is a good argument. This is like saying we need to keep riding horses because some early cars were unreliable. Instead, we should demand reliable electronics, because the 99% of cases show that this is entirely possible.

--- End quote ---

Your analogy is false.  The reliability issues of appliances are real, and should be taken into account when considering the level of technology to purchase.  If such devices were actually as reliable as a basic ceiling fan, they would have the same 10 year warranty.  Do they? 

There are any number of electronic devices which connect to 120VAC/240VAC and fail often from the power surges that are common in many places.  The manufacturers know exactly what the electrical environments are like.  They choose to not protect devices based on how it impacts the selling price vs. reliability.  Ceiling fans are devices that are often bought on price alone, so poor surge protection if they contain fancy electronics.

In contrast, the one feature that is cheap to provide, and does seem to offer significant perceived "value" are remote controls.  They seem to be on nearly everything, including AC units and ceiling fans.  The point is, they provide a perceived value, so get included in any but the very cheapest of units.  Surge protection is something virtually no one knows about, other than the outlet strips that people think will stop lightning bolts.

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