USB and HDMI over CAT5/6/6e cables

[JJalling]

Hi,

I'm currently renovating my house, and thought about moving my (noisy) computer out my office/lab and into another room about 10m away. Has anybody had any success with that?
I will need the following connections:
2 or 3 x HDMI for the monitors. I currently have two, but might upgrade in the future.
1 or 2 x USB2 (or optimally USB3). I think one is enough as the cable will be terminated in a hub on my desk, but sometimes/often more is better
(optional 3 wires for the power-on/reset switch in the computer)

If possible I would like to terminate each cable in a socket in the wall.

Is the project just stupid and not worthwhile?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

BR Jonas

[SirNick]

There are a ton of products for converting between HDMI and UTP cable.  I've tried a few in the past and had varying degrees of success.  Cable impedance and mismatched length (ergo, timing) issues tend to make it hit-and-miss.  Since you're not going all that far, you might consider just using a well-shielded HDMI cable instead.  I have one running from an AV receiver to a projector that is at least 10m long.  No problems at all.  I have a female coupler in the middle to extend the distance by another couple meters since I spec'd the cable for an AV rack that doesn't exist yet.  Wallplates would be essentially the same thing.

I've never tried USB, but I know conversion products exist for that too.  As a WAG, I doubt USB 2.0 would be a big deal in terms of bandwidth.

You could also just make your computer quieter.  There are a lot of silent PC products on the market if you're willing to crack the case open and replace the noisiest parts.  Is that an option?

[gxti]

I'm actually in the process of doing the same thing, at about the same distance. I got all the cables from Monoprice -- a normal HDMI cable, an active USB 2 cable, and a Toslink cable for audio with a DAC on my desk. I haven't validated the throughput of the USB extender but it seems to work well enough. There are USB 3 extenders available too but they cost much more of course. It's all working great and everything cost less than I thought it would when I first had the idea.

For my second computer, I have a 144hz monitor which requires more bandwidth than my video card will put out over HDMI. So I'm making a passive adapter that will split the dual-link DVI into two HDMI ports, and will recombine them on the other end. I also want to use the spare differential pair on the second HDMI port to carry a microphone signal back to the PC but I haven't quite figured out how I want to do it yet. Digital seems like a logical choice but I haven't yet found an inexpensive way to make it happen. Another option is to convert it to a balanced analog signal but I'm unsure how much noise it might pick up. The easy solution would be to just get a USB dongle but I'd rather not soak up its limited bandwidth.

[jlmoon]

checkout
www.blackbox.com

should have what you need

[JJalling]

@SirNick
I have considered the option to just make a low noise computer, but it is my last choice at the moment.
I think I will buy a couple of decent HDMI cables to test if it works - if it turns out great, I will do the same stunt with the HTPC in the living room.

@gxti
Well, I'm not using usb that much - only for keyboard, mouse, jtag and other programmers, so the speed is not that big an issue, so USB2 might be the best solution from a price point of view. But of course if the price is right, USB3 is more future-proof.

Thank you all for your comments! I will do some tests, and get back with my results.

BR Jonas

[rob77]

we were doing a HDMI over Cat7 cable  (40meters) for one customer - 2 SFTP cables per HDMI connection. i can't remember the model and vendor of the converters we used, but i'll figure it out and post it here.

the results were great , not a single glitch in on the screen , but it was not cheap as far as i remember it was something like 200 Eur for the pair of converters. 

[jlmoon]

we were doing a HDMI over Cat7 cable  (40meters) for one customer - 2 SFTP cables per HDMI connection. i can't remember the model and vendor of the converters we used, but i'll figure it out and post it here.

the results were great , not a single glitch in on the screen , but it was not cheap as far as i remember it was something like 200 Eur for the pair of converters.

Was it Extron, by chance?
They have a lot of devices as well.

[rob77]

we were doing a HDMI over Cat7 cable  (40meters) for one customer - 2 SFTP cables per HDMI connection. i can't remember the model and vendor of the converters we used, but i'll figure it out and post it here.

the results were great , not a single glitch in on the screen , but it was not cheap as far as i remember it was something like 200 Eur for the pair of converters.

Was it Extron, by chance?
They have a lot of devices as well.

no wasn't Extron, it was Krammer.
PT-561 - transmitter and PT-562 receiver , Cat7 wasn't a requirement for the converters, but to ensure good results, we decided to use Cat7.

[SirNick]

My experience with active HDMI / DVI baluns:

I've tried Gefen and I recommend no one ever buy from those jokers -- long story, but they're complete d-bags that sent me two differently broken units, at which point I requested a refund.  They said that "wasn't possible".  $350 down the drain.  I have photos of one with a charred(!) IC, yet they claimed it "tested fine".

Next, I got a Tripp-Lite unit that claimed revolutionary compatibility.  It was a great (on-screen) sparkle generator.

I got a few Atten boxes (IIRC) that couldn't keep sync higher than 800x600.

I tried to get some AudioControl stuff that seemed to be fairly nice, but they don't sell through many (any?) retailers, and weren't too willing to send a set out for a performance trial.  Too expensive to buy on a prayer.

I ended up using Niles component video extenders, and aside from some minor ghosting, they worked alright.  Eventually I replaced them with the long HDMI cable, and it has been rock solid ever since.

[rob77]

upto 15meters a high quality HDMI cable is cheaper and reliable, no doubts. but the problem is when you need to route the cable though walls - you need a big hole to fit the hdmi connector

[SirNick]

Very true!  But, not as big as the hole you need to make to put wall plates in.   

[Stonent]

I've seen extron equipment where I work, but also in conference rooms we have wall plates with female HDMI ports on both sides.  A standard long HDMI cable is run through the wall from the source input around the room to the TV connection.

If you need some really long HDMI cables that will work you should check out Blue Jeans cables online.  They can made custom lengths and will test them for performance.

[gxti]

Ignore what I said about the DVI-to-dual-HDMI adapter, it turns out Monoprice does carry dual-link DVI cables up to 50 feet. Now I feel like a dumbass for missing that the first time. On the bright side, while I did spend quite a lot of hours designing the PCB (entirely my fault, I can't resist tweaking things to death), at least I didn't get to the point of spending money on it.

[jlmoon]

upto 15meters a high quality HDMI cable is cheaper and reliable, no doubts. but the problem is when you need to route the cable though walls - you need a big hole to fit the hdmi connector

not as big as for DB-25 or DVI.

[aroby]

I tried the monoprice in-wall hdmi over cat6 products.  I couldn't get them to work reliably, except over short runs.  I ended up replacing one run with a 50' Hdmi cable and for the other, longer run (which was inaccessible in the wall) I bought these http://www.ebay.com/itm/251373683055.  They work perfectly but obviously are not in the wall.

Anthony

[aroby]

upto 15meters a high quality HDMI cable is cheaper and reliable, no doubts. but the problem is when you need to route the cable though walls - you need a big hole to fit the hdmi connector

You can buy hdmi wall plates to terminate the cable for a smarter look.