General > General Technical Chat

USB-C charging law in the EU.

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David Hess:

--- Quote from: xrunner on November 11, 2023, 08:05:37 pm ---Dewalt tools has an adapter that you can attach to your Dewalt battery, and it allows it to be charged via a USB C power delivery charger or battery bank. And it is also bi-directional.  :-+
--- End quote ---

Milwaukee has something like that for their M12 batteries.  It allows charging from USB and also operates as a USB power bank to charge other devices, but it uses USB A and micro USB instead of USB-C and PD.  Unfortunately it does not support QC so it charges slowly.

The battery life on my phone only lasts half a day if I am actually using it, so I have started carrying a tactical flashlight which also operates as a power bank.  Despite both using USB-C, neither support PD and the flashlight does not support QC.  Maybe in a few years, PD support will universal.  Hahahaha, I crack myself up.


--- Quote from: Siwastaja on November 11, 2023, 12:30:48 pm ---It seems you were deep frozen in 2017, but hello again and welcome to year 2023! You know, that USB-C thing happened many years ago, and despite your warranted fears, none of that nasty stuff happened, and I have never heard anyone have any compatibility problems whatsoever with USB-C chargers and devices, which are everywhere. I'm very glad your prediction was wrong.
--- End quote ---

There is still plenty of USB-C devices (most?) which do not support PD, and even these devices are playing the authentication game.  My Samsung phone loves to complain about foreign QC chargers.

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: freda on November 11, 2023, 11:10:03 pm ---6months later the USB-C is broken! because that biscuit connector in the middle is
really really FRAGILE! :wtf:

--- End quote ---

It's pretty much the same kind of thin internal connector that in the micro-USB variant. The fact that it's centered rather than off-center (like with the micro-USB) may slightly increase the risk of damage. Also, possibly the fact that you can plug it without really looking at it may also increase the risk of screwing it up.

Never had that happen myself, but it's possible. I didn't like much micro-USB though. It was pretty flimsy. I had a number of micro-USB connectors desoldered (the PCB-side receptables) after a while, the USB-C receptacles tend to be less prone to that. The cheap micro-USB receptacles were really, really bad. I don't think USB-C is worse than micro-USB from a reliability POV. It serves its purposes reasonably well. But I wouldn't want to see it used for just anything either, so let's hope that said EU directive doesn't widen the scope over time (like some zealots seem to be all for).

Nusa:

--- Quote from: AVGresponding on November 11, 2023, 10:50:38 am ---
NB: You septics call 18V Li-ion batteries 20V, for some reason.

--- End quote ---

That's a marketing choice made by individual brands, not a difference in technology. Both numbers can be correct, it's just that 18V is approximately the nominal voltage of the 5 cells in series, while 20V is approximately the fully charged voltage of the 5 cells in series.

One distinction is that real power tools do not have integrated batteries (except for the super cheap tools). The batteries are sold separately from the tool, and in nearly all cases are not charged while attached to the tool. The tool itself has no charging capability. Which is by design...you want to be able to swap batteries and keep on using it.

wraper:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 12, 2023, 02:41:09 am ---I had a number of micro-USB connectors desoldered (the PCB-side receptables) after a while, the USB-C receptacles tend to be less prone to that. The cheap micro-USB receptacles were really, really bad. I don't think USB-C is worse than micro-USB from a reliability POV. It serves its purposes reasonably well. But I wouldn't want to see it used for just anything either, so let's hope that said EU directive doesn't widen the scope over time (like some zealots seem to be all for).

--- End quote ---
It depends on particular connector construction. I never use ones with no TH mounting tabs for this reason. The most robust types go into PCB slot, it helps mitigate lever effect when plug is pulled up or down. Also depends on PCB pads, you should never use thermal reliefs for mounting tabs as they greatly increase the chance of PCB damage.

CJay:

--- Quote from: AVGresponding on November 11, 2023, 12:39:20 pm ---
--- Quote from: CJay on November 11, 2023, 11:54:07 am ---
--- Quote from: AVGresponding on November 11, 2023, 10:50:38 am ---
Any modern real power tool with a fast charger. Personal example would be my DeWalt fast charger that does an 18V 5.0Ah battery in 20 minutes. Then there's the DeWalt FlexVolt, not sure what the charge power is on those but it's going to be more than 240W. Pretty sure all the main manufacturers have a fast charger for their pro/pro-sumer grade tools.

--- End quote ---

The highest current Dewalt charger have is the XR12A, that's 12 Amps at 18V which can charge a 9AH battery in 45 minutes so that would seem roughly analogous to your 5AH battery in 20 mins.

However, a quick cig packet calculation will tell you that 12 amps at 18V is 216W and, if you actually read the spec sheet of the charger,  it only charges to 80% in that 45/20 minutes, a full charge will take a lot longer.

For your reference and to help you not look silly in future, the power formula:

P=VI

--- End quote ---

So that you don't look silly, maybe you should consider the full voltage required, not the nominal voltage. Due to reverse protection etc etc this is on the order of 21.3 volts. 21.3x12=255.6

Though I will concede my charger does a 2.0Ah battery in 20 minutes, not a 5.0, that takes over an hour... d'Oh!  :palm:   :-DD

Still makes no difference to the fact that usb-c is far too fragile to be of any use on a building site.

--- End quote ---

Mea culpa, yes, you're correct but that 15W won't make significant difference to charge time, I doubt there's any builder in the land who'd be bothered by an extra minute or so of cig/brew/butty time while their batteries charge..

The connector though, yeah, perfectly adequate for laptops, mobile phones etc.

A building site, nah, you're spot on, it's way too fragile for a building site.

Was there ever any credible suggestion that it might be forced into use though?

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