General > General Technical Chat

USB-C charging law in the EU.

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tszaboo:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 11, 2023, 09:55:04 pm ---But power tools are absolutely not in the scope of this directive as a few have already pointed out, why would you keep bringing that up?

--- End quote ---
They aren't but I wish they were. Instead of having a lot of bulky charging docks that are brand specific, having the charging circuit in the tool would be perfect. Think of the benefits, of having them charged on site from a powerbank for example, only with a Type-C cable. Or better still, having a button which can turn the input into an output to charge a phone from the battery bank. I think power tools should be the next regulatory target, because that's also a market which is way too unregulated.
For example the difference between a Bosch and a Dremel battery is a little piece of plastic to lock out using one battery in another tool. If you cut it off it works perfectly. I see no reason to have 10 different design battery pack with 3 cells that are only used for vendor-lock-in.

wraper:

--- Quote from: tszaboo on November 13, 2023, 08:59:38 am ---
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 11, 2023, 09:55:04 pm ---But power tools are absolutely not in the scope of this directive as a few have already pointed out, why would you keep bringing that up?

--- End quote ---
They aren't but I wish they were. Instead of having a lot of bulky charging docks that are brand specific, having the charging circuit in the tool would be perfect. Think of the benefits, of having them charged on site from a powerbank for example, only with a Type-C cable. Or better still, having a button which can turn the input into an output to charge a phone from the battery bank. I think power tools should be the next regulatory target, because that's also a market which is way too unregulated.

--- End quote ---
Charging port in real professional power tools would be nearly useless. There are swappable batteries for a good reason. You discharge one, put in a charger, grab next battery and continue working, and so on. Discharging can be as fast as 5 minutes for high power tools. There are chargers that can charge 4 or even more batteries at once. Also batteries are compatible between many different tools in certain product line, so you can use them for tools that are needed at particular moment.

--- Quote ---For example the difference between a Bosch and a Dremel battery is a little piece of plastic to lock out using one battery in another tool. If you cut it off it works perfectly. I see no reason to have 10 different design battery pack with 3 cells that are only used for vendor-lock-in.
--- End quote ---
I don't know about actual difference between those but Dremel batteries could easily use cells with lower discharge/charge rate due to lower power requirement than many Bosch tools that use similar 12V battery and up 3x slower charging compared with Bosch fast charger. When charging to 80% difference would be even larger as 1.5Ah Bosch takes 16 minutes to 80%.

magic:
Internal charging is absolutely idiotic, as above. Furthermore, it would have the side effect of causing vendors to supply tools without external chargers, which makes it doubly idiotic. Hmm, maybe EU is already working on this...

USB-C on a construction site is another idiocy. Look at what sort of connectors those tools actually use :palm:

A multi-vendor standard line of batteries would be the right step, but I doubt it's happening.

wraper:

--- Quote from: magic on November 13, 2023, 09:30:05 am ---USB-C on a construction site is another idiocy. Look at what sort of connectors those tools actually use :palm:

--- End quote ---
Yes, you don't want concrete or steel dust and shavings anywhere near small connectors with tiny pins and clearance.

Siwastaja:

--- Quote from: wraper on November 13, 2023, 09:24:26 am ---Charging port in real professional power tools would be nearly useless. There are swappable batteries for a good reason. You discharge one, put in a charger, grab next battery and continue working, and so on. Discharging can be as fast as 5 minutes for high power tools. There are chargers that can charge 4 or even more batteries at once. Also batteries are compatible between many different tools in certain product line, so you can use them for tools that are needed at particular moment.

--- End quote ---

And these dedicated chargers are big for a reason: for example, they have cooling fans! After 5 minute (~10C) discharge, something which cells can't continuously handle for more than one half-cycle, cells are at maximum temperature (like 60-70degC) but not beyond it only thanks to their thermal mass. Then you put the pack in charger, and the cooling fan allows the charger to commence quick charging. This fan cooling allows not only for the dissipation due to charging current, but also removes the heat stored in the thermal mass of the cells, so that after maybe 20-30 minutes of fast charging, the pack is ready to be discharged in 5 minutes again. And with just 2-3 swappable battery packs, you can have nearly 100% duty cycle.

It would be impractical to continuously cool the cells in the power tool itself as it needs to be hand-held (and is operated in even dustier conditions than the charger), so obviously no cooling fan there.

For cheap chinesium tools for light-weight home use, fixed batteries within the tool, and USB-C port, under a plastic cap for dust protection, is not that bad of an idea. Nowadays it seems that every crap tool series have their own swappable battery system, yet people only buy that one tool, and the next year they need something different and get a different chinesium brand, and never a second battery for either, so swappable batteries and separate chargers only increase the cost and amount of e-waste. Such single-use cheap tools could as well use a fixed battery - and then, choice of USB-C is obvious e-waste reduction as no separate charger needs to be packaged.

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