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USB-C charging law in the EU.
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wraper:

--- Quote from: Siwastaja on November 13, 2023, 09:43:58 am ---Nowadays it seems that every crap tool series have their own swappable battery system, yet people only buy that one tool, and the next year they need something different and get a different chinesium brand, and never a second battery for either, so swappable batteries and separate chargers only increase the cost and amount of e-waste. Such single-use cheap tools could as well use a fixed battery - and then, choice of USB-C is obvious e-waste reduction as no separate charger needs to be packaged.

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When I bought battery powered tools for my garden I extensively researched availability and pricing of devices that I will likely buy in future that are locked in to particular battery systems. Now I have 4 devices, 3 batteries and 2 chargers that fit them all and likely will buy one another compatible device. Buying all those separately with comparable runtime available would be like 2.5x the cost. Even if going Chinesium it still would be more expensive.
EDIT: BTW Chinesium tools often clone battery system from some reputable manufacturer.
mikeselectricstuff:

--- Quote from: ebastler on November 12, 2023, 06:03:12 pm ---
--- Quote from: CJay on November 12, 2023, 05:57:41 pm ---There's some suggestion that the reason the 'standard' laptop charging voltage is 19V is because in the EU anything higher falls into a different electrical safety classification

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Reference please?  ???

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Laptops have used around 19V for at least a couple of decades, since they have been using lithium cells
The only safety classification is SELV, which from memory is below 60VDC.
NiHaoMike:

--- Quote from: wraper on November 13, 2023, 09:24:26 am ---Charging port in real professional power tools would be nearly useless. There are swappable batteries for a good reason. You discharge one, put in a charger, grab next battery and continue working, and so on. Discharging can be as fast as 5 minutes for high power tools. There are chargers that can charge 4 or even more batteries at once. Also batteries are compatible between many different tools in certain product line, so you can use them for tools that are needed at particular moment.

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Dyson had the right idea, their batteries have built in charge ports. You could plug in the charger with the battery still installed on the tool, or you can take out the battery and charge it on its own. It would be a lot better if they made it all standard instead of being proprietary...

--- Quote from: magic on November 13, 2023, 09:30:05 am ---Internal charging is absolutely idiotic, as above. Furthermore, it would have the side effect of causing vendors to supply tools without external chargers, which makes it doubly idiotic.

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A lot of tools are already available without the batteries or charger included, as well as many with only the batteries supplied. Some users already have the batteries and/or charger, that means they have the choice of not paying extra for those.

--- Quote from: Siwastaja on November 13, 2023, 09:43:58 am ---And these dedicated chargers are big for a reason: for example, they have cooling fans! After 5 minute (~10C) discharge, something which cells can't continuously handle for more than one half-cycle, cells are at maximum temperature (like 60-70degC) but not beyond it only thanks to their thermal mass. Then you put the pack in charger, and the cooling fan allows the charger to commence quick charging. This fan cooling allows not only for the dissipation due to charging current, but also removes the heat stored in the thermal mass of the cells, so that after maybe 20-30 minutes of fast charging, the pack is ready to be discharged in 5 minutes again. And with just 2-3 swappable battery packs, you can have nearly 100% duty cycle.

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The charger for my cordless mower has a fan, but only to cool the charger itself. I had modded the charger to halve its output current, at stock it charges at about 1C rate and the pack gets a little warm when finished. Would be nice if it had a switch to allow the user to select how fast they want it to charge and what charge level to stop at, but the manufacturer wouldn't want to prolong the service life of the batteries...
tszaboo:

--- Quote from: wraper on November 13, 2023, 09:24:26 am ---
--- Quote from: tszaboo on November 13, 2023, 08:59:38 am ---
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 11, 2023, 09:55:04 pm ---But power tools are absolutely not in the scope of this directive as a few have already pointed out, why would you keep bringing that up?

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They aren't but I wish they were. Instead of having a lot of bulky charging docks that are brand specific, having the charging circuit in the tool would be perfect. Think of the benefits, of having them charged on site from a powerbank for example, only with a Type-C cable. Or better still, having a button which can turn the input into an output to charge a phone from the battery bank. I think power tools should be the next regulatory target, because that's also a market which is way too unregulated.

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Charging port in real professional power tools would be nearly useless. There are swappable batteries for a good reason. You discharge one, put in a charger, grab next battery and continue working, and so on. Discharging can be as fast as 5 minutes for high power tools. There are chargers that can charge 4 or even more batteries at once. Also batteries are compatible between many different tools in certain product line, so you can use them for tools that are needed at particular moment.

--- Quote ---For example the difference between a Bosch and a Dremel battery is a little piece of plastic to lock out using one battery in another tool. If you cut it off it works perfectly. I see no reason to have 10 different design battery pack with 3 cells that are only used for vendor-lock-in.
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I don't know about actual difference between those but Dremel batteries could easily use cells with lower discharge/charge rate due to lower power requirement than many Bosch tools that use similar 12V battery and up 3x slower charging compared with Bosch fast charger. When charging to 80% difference would be even larger as 1.5Ah Bosch takes 16 minutes to 80%.

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You place the charging circuit into the battery pack.


--- Quote from: wraper on November 13, 2023, 09:41:03 am ---
--- Quote from: magic on November 13, 2023, 09:30:05 am ---USB-C on a construction site is another idiocy. Look at what sort of connectors those tools actually use :palm:

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Yes, you don't want concrete or steel dust and shavings anywhere near small connectors with tiny pins and clearance.

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So rubber dust cap? This is not rocket science.

--- Quote from: Siwastaja on November 13, 2023, 09:43:58 am ---For cheap chinesium tools for light-weight home use, fixed batteries within the tool, and USB-C port, under a plastic cap for dust protection, is not that bad of an idea. Nowadays it seems that every crap tool series have their own swappable battery system, yet people only buy that one tool, and the next year they need something different and get a different chinesium brand, and never a second battery for either, so swappable batteries and separate chargers only increase the cost and amount of e-waste. Such single-use cheap tools could as well use a fixed battery - and then, choice of USB-C is obvious e-waste reduction as no separate charger needs to be packaged.

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Not even just that, but all the Bosch, Gardena, PowerX and other brand powertools that get used 1x a year or a few times when you are renovating. They could easily use the same battery pack. And it doesn't have to be the same way for concrete impact drivers.
wraper:

--- Quote from: tszaboo on November 13, 2023, 12:43:55 pm ---So rubber dust cap? This is not rocket science.

--- End quote ---
They are often forgotten to be plugged or are plugged incompletely and likely will be ripped off in a few days on building site. Also then you need to put a plug on charger as well.
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