USB-C mechanical design is flimsy and pathetic.

[eti]

## THIS IS NOTHING TO DO WITH ELECTRICAL PROPERTIES OR PROTOCOLS - GET THAT STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU READ THIS ##


Most of the hype that the dimwits in the "tech meejaa" blabber on about <insert currently popular consumer sheep targeted consumer grade electronic fad that everyone's automatically swallowed as a "great innovation"> is junk.

Okay, we know that. USB-C plugs are SO THIN and flimsy, made from the same folded steel as all the rest, but then SO much thinner, I'm almost afraid to plug mine in too hard in case the shell bends or snaps.

Remind me again why all these non-engineering lemmings believe it's SO SO GOOD, because physically it's a hollow, weak metal shell with almost  no durability at all. Apple's lightning plugs are machined from solid steel, and have two nice indentation dimples either side that latch positively into some form of spring-loaded latch or bearing.

So why is this horse shit connector so "magic"? It's clearly not. It is a weak, weak, flimsy piece of junk.

Others seem to think so too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21533767

[james_s]

I'm not a fan. I have an employer issued Macbook and I have ripped the end off several expensive USB-C cables by tripping over it or by the ridiculously slippery machine sliding off the back of the sofa or the arm of a char and smacking the connector into the ground. The old style fullsized USB connectors are far more mechanically robust and the cables are a lot cheaper. USB-C tries to be too much and even years later the standard is still a mess and I have to use dongles for everything.

[eti]

 I used to work on production lines assembling/testing DIN rail controls and sensors for military and industrial purposes. I don't expect consumer junk to be built that well **these days** (it almost always came close, decades ago).

I'm so so bored and done with the whole consumer electronics/iot/"smart" bollocks that everyone on YouTube laps up and fawns over, this trash upsets my soul, it's all so dull. I'd love to be back in industrial grade or above, and not have to waste my talents on this shite, and the inevitability dumb consumer-grade misunderstandings, conversations and daily PEBKAC tedium that comes along for the ride.

I'm far happier working on stuff with ZERO public coverage or consumer appeal, ergo I don't get asked endless questions by people who've NO need to know WHY I'm doing a repair that way, etc. I'd rather answer "what's your job?" with something that sounds SO much like "particle accelerator" to the average man, that they'd be disinterested enough to never be tempted to ask again

[Halcyon]

Yep. We use Dell laptops at work with USB-C docks. The plug on them wiggles around due to the stiff cable and all the conductors. It's only a matter of time before something breaks.

However that said, I have a Lenovo laptop at home and the USB-C/Thunderbolt cable is magnetically coupled to the proprietary Lenovo power connector for extra support and rigidity. It's actually a decent implementation that takes the stress off the dock connector and laptop socket.

[BravoV]

It well known USB designers are actually artists, and the USB-C is the latest fashion statement. 

[peter-h]

The insertion force of USB-C is way too high for the strength of the components.

It is also really unnecessary.

[amyk]

Two words: planned obolescence.
Also, never underestimate the force of marketing. The docile lemmings need to be tricked into thinking that newer is better, so they will continue to be a source of profit.

[eti]

It's the technically ignorant who get played like suckers, sold to and fed an annual line of hyperbolic hogwash. There's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING "amazing!!" in some tiny, gold plated sprung metal contacts crammed inside a stupidly tiny space, surrounded by a plastic insulator, surrounded by a sheet metal shell which has the ends dovetailed together and press-fitted together at the junction of the two edges (you'll see the dovetail under a magnifier).

Whoop de doo, it's "symmetrical" so stupid lazy consumers who are too clumsy and lazy, don't plug it in the wrong way around. Don't see the issue tbh - when was the last time anyone complained that inserting a polarised mains plug into a wall outlet was "a problem"? The 12th of never is when.

Also, wireless charging is made out to be some magical woo woo... it's a flat transformer split across the base and the phone - big deal. What's the issue? People are VERY VERY gullible, and love having "solutions" marketed to them so they can show off down the pub that they've adopted the latest "technology" ... Lol.

If these people were mainly engineers, they'd never say a word, for fear of others condemning them for falling for this blatantly transparent bollocks.

The highly predicable, tedious annual release of a slew of "best phone everrrrrrrr, EVERRRRRRR!" nonsense has now reached the point of zero innovation (not that there ever was much tbh, imho) - now they're running out of bullshit to ram down people's gullible ears and eyes, they're resorting to... CONNECTORS AND CHARGERS!

Seriously? People are thick.

[ejeffrey]

For me it's way better than USB micro-B ever was.  I've had some cables  wear out but I haven't had problems with jacks other than needing to clean pocket lint out of them with a needle (like almost every other connector used on cell phones).  With micro-B on cell phones the jacks always became finicky after 1 year and borderline unusable after 2.  I know some people have problems with it, but for me it works fine.

For the size and # of connectors I am pretty happy with USB-C.  Sure, it isn't as robust as a full sized USB-A or USB-B connector, but I don't really see putting that on a cell phone.  Laptops could get away with something like that and it would have been nice to have a large version of type-C for applications that could benefit.  But then for the most part, my phone gets the most abuse of any device so making a larger more robust connector that only works on desktops and laptops seems kind of pointless.

[VK3DRB]

I used to work on production lines assembling/testing DIN rail controls and sensors for military and industrial purposes. I don't expect consumer junk to be built that well **these days** (it almost always came close, decades ago).

I'm so so bored and done with the whole consumer electronics/iot/"smart" bollocks that everyone on YouTube laps up and fawns over, this trash upsets my soul, it's all so dull. I'd love to be back in industrial grade or above, and not have to waste my talents on this shite, and the inevitability dumb consumer-grade misunderstandings, conversations and daily PEBKAC tedium that comes along for the ride.

I'm far happier working on stuff with ZERO public coverage or consumer appeal, ergo I don't get asked endless questions by people who've NO need to know WHY I'm doing a repair that way, etc. I'd rather answer "what's your job?" with something that sounds SO much like "particle accelerator" to the average man, that they'd be disinterested enough to never be tempted to ask again

So I guess you are not one of those Apple fanboys who line up at the Apple store at 5am to be the first to photographed by the paparazzi as your walk out, head held high, after blowing your dough on an overpriced toy.

I remember a very competent TV technician friend went a house to fix a TV in the 1980's. He got told off by a customer as he opened a circuit diagram to fault find. The customer said something like, "What sort of mechanic are you when you have to read the instructions? I would rather someone who know what they are doing, thank you very much." My friend simply packed up, walked out, got into his van and drove off without saying a word.

[eti]

I used to work on production lines assembling/testing DIN rail controls and sensors for military and industrial purposes. I don't expect consumer junk to be built that well **these days** (it almost always came close, decades ago).

I'm so so bored and done with the whole consumer electronics/iot/"smart" bollocks that everyone on YouTube laps up and fawns over, this trash upsets my soul, it's all so dull. I'd love to be back in industrial grade or above, and not have to waste my talents on this shite, and the inevitability dumb consumer-grade misunderstandings, conversations and daily PEBKAC tedium that comes along for the ride.

I'm far happier working on stuff with ZERO public coverage or consumer appeal, ergo I don't get asked endless questions by people who've NO need to know WHY I'm doing a repair that way, etc. I'd rather answer "what's your job?" with something that sounds SO much like "particle accelerator" to the average man, that they'd be disinterested enough to never be tempted to ask again

So I guess you are not one of those Apple fanboys who line up at the Apple store at 5am to be the first to photographed by the paparazzi as your walk out, head held high, after blowing your dough on an overpriced toy.

I remember a very competent TV technician friend went a house to fix a TV in the 1980's. He got told off by a customer as he opened a circuit diagram to fault find. The customer said something like, "What sort of mechanic are you when you have to read the instructions? I would rather someone who know what they are doing, thank you very much." My friend simply packed up, walked out, got into his van and drove off without saying a word.

"So I guess"

I'd keep guessing if I were you. 

So you see me make a comment about how I admire an Apple designed *connector system* (and. I didn't say anything else, lest ye forget), and JUMP to some   wild, trolling conclusion and ramble on about my purchase habits, of which you know and always will know, absolutely nothing.

I put it to you that you are attempting to bait me or "troll" me, and I respond by  chuckling at your impotent provocation, and tell you I'll report you next time, wise acre.

[Berni]

All the USB connections that came after MiniUSB are fragile crap.

I have replaced so many microUSB connectors in tablets and phones, the connectors insides completely falling apart and such. Have not moved onto USB-C yet to see that.

MiniUSB on the other hand is built like a tank. Pretty much all of the MicroUSB connectors i had to repair was the whole connector ripped off the board. The connector was fine and everything, just needed to be soldered back down and it works. So even in harsh use the connectors is stronger than the solder holding it down.

But but... what about USB 3.0! 480Mbit is for peasants!
Well... MiniUSB also had a 10pin variant invented back in 2013: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_mini-USB
It has enough pins to carry USB 3.0 signals while being the same size as normal MiniUSB and so being backwards compatible with existing normal 5 pin MiniUSB cables. Back then USB 3.0 didn't exist tho so phones mostly used it as a more sleek replacement for the gazilion pin proprietary multi conector that also carries things like analog audio, video or even RS232. But then the crappy flimsy microUSB came around and killed it.

[coppercone2]

good circuits and connectors often do not look good cosmetically, or good physics apparatus. If people see a industrial wiring box with rails and terminal blocks and stuff they think its old and needs to be replaced with a cute tile or fancy 3 dimensional object with miters

[wraper]

All the USB connections that came after MiniUSB are fragile crap.

I have replaced so many microUSB connectors in tablets and phones, the connectors insides completely falling apart and such. Have not moved onto USB-C yet to see that.

MiniUSB on the other hand is built like a tank. Pretty much all of the MicroUSB connectors i had to repair was the whole connector ripped off the board. The connector was fine and everything, just needed to be soldered back down and it works. So even in harsh use the connectors is stronger than the solder holding it down.

But but... what about USB 3.0! 480Mbit is for peasants!
Well... MiniUSB also had a 10pin variant invented back in 2013: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_mini-USB
It has enough pins to carry USB 3.0 signals while being the same size as normal MiniUSB and so being backwards compatible with existing normal 5 pin MiniUSB cables. Back then USB 3.0 didn't exist tho so phones mostly used it as a more sleek replacement for the gazilion pin proprietary multi conector that also carries things like analog audio, video or even RS232. But then the crappy flimsy microUSB came around and killed it.

Mini USB is the worst garbage out of all of them. Good riddance.

I have replaced so many microUSB connectors in tablets and phones, the connectors insides completely falling apart and such

If it's a good connector with 4 TH mounting points they almost never fail or break off. Connectors with no TH mounting have issues holding on the PCB.

[BravoV]

Connectors with no TH mounting have issues holding on the PCB.

This , the keyword is "thru hole" mounting, to provide a mechanical strength/anchor points, its hard for certain people to understand this, I guess the USB designers .. err .. artists will never learn and realize that, ever.

They are artists, what do you expect ? 

[wraper]

Connectors with no TH mounting have issues holding on the PCB.

This , the keyword is "thru hole" mounting, to provide a mechanical strength/anchor points, its hard for certain people to understand this, I guess the USB designers .. err .. artists will never learn and realize that, ever.

They are artists, what do you expect ? 

There are plenty of micro USB connectors with TH. No issue with USB as such. The issue is with people who design their devices with non TH micro USB connectors in them. The same as when full size SMD (non TH) USB A/B connectors are used.

[Berni]

Not everyone uses troughhole USB connectors yeah. But even the ones that are troughhole are often just tiny short pins that serve as alignment and don't actually stick out on the other side, seen those get ripped out too.

As for MiniUSB reliability i had plenty of devices using it, Including smartphones that got plugged in daily for years (Early ones had terrible battery life.) and have yet to own a  MiniUSB device or cable that started making intermittent connection. Maybe im just too gentle with my devices or they happened to have particularly high quality specimens. Sure the rated cycles in MiniUSB connectors are much lower than micro, but i have exceeded the rated cycles on mine and never noticed a problem.

In any case given that the PCB can hold on to the connector id say a MiniUSB can handle at least twice or trice as much abusive force of repeated sideways tugging compared to MicroUSB before the connector fails.

[wraper]

Not everyone uses troughhole USB connectors yeah. But even the ones that are troughhole are often just tiny short pins that serve as alignment and don't actually stick out on the other side, seen those get ripped out too.

They are not for alignment but for thin PCBs and actually suck for alignment purposes. Most of the devices they are used in have something like 0.8mm PCB, not 1.6mm. Nonetheless, even if you use them on thicker PCB, they are way more robust than non TH connectors. Also you can get connectors with long mounting terminals if you need.

[julianhigginson]

I don't like the current trend of moving towards USB C only ports on laptops... I think usb A makes a lot more sense for many peripheral connections going forward, and not having any (or just 1) USB A is ridiculous..... But usb C also supports Thunderbolt channels, and, well, that's important nowdays so it's important that they have those too.. just not exclusively, please!

For mobile devices I think usb C is great compared to USB micro b. Yeah I've had USB C cables go to crap, but never had an issue with device sockets so far... (Maybe because I've had them for less time? I don't know... ) But I hated the way USB micro B sockets would fail and need replacing... I had a couple of phones that I just decided to replace in the past, just from the USB micro b socket going unreliable... in both cases it took a phone that was oldish and a bit crap, but still useful, into something that was unusable... And then the decision to fix or replace is very hard to make when the phone is also old and maybe other things are going to be a problem soon anyway.... So in effect I've had USB micro b end the lives of a few devices earlier than they really should have ended.

[wraper]

I don't like the current trend of moving towards USB C only ports on laptops... I think usb A makes a lot more sense for many peripheral connections going forward, and not having any (or just 1) USB A is ridiculous..... But usb C also supports Thunderbolt channels, and, well, that's important nowdays so it's important that they have those too.. just not exclusively, please!

USB A are thick and take a lot of space. They are a limitation for laptop form factor.

[Clear as mud]

I was about to post a new thread comparing USB-mini-B to USB-micro-B, but I see it's already being discussed!

I just wanted to say, manufacturer datasheets typically have a lower insertion cycle count for mini-B than for micro-B, but in the real world, in my experience, mini-B is more reliable than micro-B.  The real-world experience seems to be opposite of what the datasheets would suggest.  I first became aware of the insertion cycle count from datasheets at least 5 years ago, when typically mini-B had a specified insertion count of 1500, and micro-B had it specified as 10,000.  Looking at modern data sheets now, I see the same thing except that some of the mini-B ones now say 5000 instead of 1500.

My 20 year old cell phone with mini-B connector still works fine, meanwhile I have repaired quite a few micro-B connectors on other phones.  And I'm not the only one who thinks mini-B is more reliable.  For example, in this video, 4:24 through 4:34, the person says he prefers mini-B because it is more reliable and robust.  Maybe it's just the through-hole vs. surface-mount issue that was already discussed, but I'm pretty sure I have dealt with micro-USB connectors that became internally loose even while still fastened securely to the PCB.

[wraper]

My 20 year old cell phone with mini-B connector still works fine, meanwhile I have repaired quite a few micro-B connectors on other phones.

Real world experience at sample size of 1  Versus connector which is orders of magnitude more widespread.  Also I guess that mini USB was not used for charging unlike micro USB which were plugged/unplugged daily. A decade ago I worked at mobile phone service center for several years. And I can say that micro USB with good TH mounting simply never failed. Only connectors without TH got sometimes ripped from PCB, often together with pads. Good luck breaking off connector on the picture below.

but I'm pretty sure I have dealt with micro-USB connectors that became internally loose even while still fastened securely to the PCB.

It almost never occurs. Mini USB is way worse in this regard.

[Berni]

Okay i admit i only had a sample size of 2 phones that got plugged in daily for years and half a dozen regularly used MiniUSB devices that stayed plugged in most of the time. And the single SMD only MiniUSB i that had ripped off and had to be soldered down again was from a friend that asked me to fix it.

I haven't actually broken a microUSB myself. The half a dozen ones that i had to replace was from friends and relatives that broke them. So i have no idea what was it that ultimately broke it, but most of the time the connector had to be completely replaced because it would not make contact, or would only make contact when held at some special angle.

Or it might be bias that i find the old Mini has a more mechanically solid feel. Putting sideways forces on a newer Micro connector feels like it bends and gives as you put more force on it, while the Mini feels like it has next to no give to it at all, also seaming to have less wobble and play when wiggled around. Yes the retention force on Mini is pretty poor but i never found it so poor that the connector would just fall out of it, besides the ubiquitous USB-A connector has identical retention force issues yet is still used everywhere.

In terms of my phone i moved to using magnetic connectors (via a tiny adapter) because it mates and unmates all by its own when the phone is simply brought close to it. Since i got used to charging the phone overnight every day even tho i don't need to since smartphone battery life has gotten a lot better, but fumbling with plugging in a microUSB was too annoying on a daily basis.

[SilverSolder]

+1 for Micro-USB, a paragon of reliability in our household, using ancient phones that still work perfectly with their Micro USB chargers.   One Blackberry Curve is >10 years old and still in daily use - a real fighter, refuses to die!      I would say the blackberry gets recharged every 3 days or so (another benefit of older phones, they don't use so much power).  So, we are looking at more than 1,000 charging cycles for its Micro USB port...  including various accidents tripping over charging cords in its life...  and it shows NO signs of wear.

[Clear as mud]

Point taken about sample size and all that.  If general consensus on the forum is that the manufacturer datasheets are correct, and micro-USB is more reliable than mini-USB, I'll go with that.

Also, my phone is not as old as I thought.  Motorola W385 did not go on the market before 2007.  The USB port is used for charging, but the initial battery only needed to be charged once every two to three weeks.  (I never use the phone very much.)  The replacement battery I got must be made out of used cells even though I paid extra for a new-quality one - it only lasts about 3 days.