General > General Technical Chat
Vaccine
Zero999:
--- Quote from: JohnnyMalaria on March 16, 2021, 04:34:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on March 16, 2021, 04:06:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: madires on March 16, 2021, 03:07:07 pm ---Antibiotics are meant to deal with bacteria, not viruses.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I should have used the term "antimicrobials", because the same situation applies to antibiotics and antivirals, and even to antifungals and antiparasitics to a lesser degree. Me fail English.
--- End quote ---
Unfortunately, the medical profession quite happily prescribes antibiotics for viruses just to keep the parents of Little Timmy who has a viral cough happy. Over-prescription of antibiotics is a major problem.
--- End quote ---
I agree antibiotics are overused, but they do have a use here. Secondary bacterial infections are very common in viral respiratory illnesses. A colleague's 19 year old daughter got very sick with COVID-19 and had to be in ICU for over a month. What made her so sick wasn't the virus itself, or her body's inflammatory response to it, but an antibiotic-resistant secondary bacterial infection. The bacteria were probably already present in her respiratory tract, but only invaded her lungs due to the virus creating the right conditions for it to do so and weakening her immune system enough. This was a huge factor in the 1918 pandemic and hasn't been so much of an issue in the 1957 and 1968 pandemics as well the current one, because of antibiotics.
I'm not in a high risk category for COVID-19 but I have a healthy respect for it. Like you, the main reason why I want to be vaccinated is to protect others, although I'm pretty sure I've already had it, but can't be sure, as I wasn't tested.
We've been lucky. It could be far worse. There could be a virus with a much higher mortality rate, which is more transmissible. The main factor in this pandemic is a/presymptomatic spread, which is common in infectious illnesses which spread rapidly, such as HIV. It also removes the incentive for the virus to become less deadly over time, because most of the spread occurs, when people still feel well.
I do agree we need to cut our use of antibiotics and develop new ones. It's possible the next pandemic could be caused by an antibiotic resistant bacterium.
1xrtt:
Did you change into an alligator?
https://www.foxnews.com/world/brazilian-president-rhetorically-claims-coronavirus-vaccine-could-turn-people-into-alligators
If yes, please send a message to this site, they are keeping track of it:
https://jacaretracker.org/en
TimFox:
Evolutionary biologists use the phrase "evolutionary strategy" as a metaphor, since the bugs aren't smart enough to plot strategies.
The best strategy for a new pathogen is to become less lethal and more infectious, thus increasing their numbers without killing off their hosts.
Zero999:
--- Quote from: TimFox on March 16, 2021, 07:44:59 pm ---The best strategy for a new pathogen is to become less lethal and more infectious, thus increasing their numbers without killing off their hosts.
--- End quote ---
Unfortunately the less lethal part doesn't apply to pathogens which spread in a/presymptomatic people, or via a third party. For example, HIV has a 100% mortality rate, without treatment and spreads rapidly in healthy people, so it has no incentive to become less deadly. The same is true with SARS-Cov 2, which whilst fortunately is several orders of magnitude less deadly, also spreads in healthy people. Unfortunately there's mounting evidence to suggest the B1525 variant discovered in the UK, is not only more transmissible, but more deadly, than the original one. A pattern which seems to be repeated in other new variants.
I know it's only wackypedia (I'm lazy) so check the references.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2#Overview_table
Siwastaja:
--- Quote from: JohnnyMalaria on March 16, 2021, 04:34:57 pm ---Unfortunately, the medical profession quite happily prescribes antibiotics for viruses just to keep the parents of Little Timmy who has a viral cough happy. Over-prescription of antibiotics is a major problem.
--- End quote ---
The actual reason is not to keep parents happy, it's because a lengthy viral infection often leads to a bacterial infection due to weakened respitory system. Doctors want to cure their patients; they even took an oath for exactly this. This is what they are doing.
You are right though; over-prescription is a major problem. So doctors should always wait and confirm the influenza has progressed into bacterial post-symptoms that are also severe enough to warrant antibiotics before writing prescription. "Playing it safe" enters the game here; being early saves time and may even save someone's life (a tiny percentage though).
It's a typical problem where doing something seems absolutely Right Thing To Do on a small scale, but when you look at the big picture, if everybody does that, it becomes a larger problem than the sum of the original problems they tried to solve.
Doctors perfectly well know about this. Have known for decades. Yet they overprescribe, so having information available isn't the answer. The only workable answer is a control society with tighter laws and tighter control thereof. It really sucks.
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