| General > General Technical Chat |
| "Veritasium" (YT) - "The Big Misconception About Electricity" ? |
| << < (213/396) > >> |
| penfold:
--- Quote from: aetherist on February 10, 2022, 01:35:11 am ---[...] The reason i don’t like drift is that it can't explain how electricity propagates at the speed of light, & especially because it can't explain how electricity propagates at the speed of light in the plastic insulation. My new electricity is a work in progress, & it might run into problems re the (too) slow speed of my electrons flowing on a wire, or i should say the (too) slow speed of the wavefront of my electrons flowing on a wire, the wavefront being much much faster, but still much much slower than the desired speed of light. [...] --- End quote --- You're suspicion/dislike is not entirely unfounded/dis-believeable. There are a large number of models of electronic conduction in metals and based on external "measureable" E and B fields, there isn't a unique solution for what the electrons arre doing inside the wire. So long as the product of charge and velocity is a current that relates to the B field, it all works well for the fields. So yeah, its totally valid to disbelieve something. And so far, conceptually, your ideas are not totally crazy - they do however seriously need some quantitative analysis because they just don't add up to me. How would skin effect at high-frequency work out in your model? Since there is no real evidence to suggest that electro-magnetic laws/theories completely disappear inside a conductor and that they seem to remain valid from microns to 1000's of km scales, they are quite difficult to dispute. Experimental evidence for the variation of ohmic/"real" resistance with increasing frequency would, to me at least, validate the idea that the distribution of current at DC is largely uniform and at HF, largely at the surface. The variation of distribution within the wire with frequency is also largely justified by measurements on conductors made from layers of varying conductivity (think silver plating on copper) where the real/"ohmic" resistance of the wire follows what is predicted for a current of specific skin depth and the corresponding resistance of the layers it falls within. Would a surface current also not imply a rather significant increase in resistance for conductors with a particularly rough or serated surface? |
| SandyCox:
--- Quote ---You're suspicion/dislike is not entirely unfounded/dis-believeable. There are a large number of models of electronic conduction in metals and based on external "measureable" E and B fields, there isn't a unique solution for what the electrons arre doing inside the wire. --- End quote --- Will you please provide some of these examples? Isn't it always possible to calculate the charge distribution from the scalar potential by solving an integral equation? |
| eugene:
I admit that I skipped a few pages in the middle of this thread, but am I the only one that understands that the electric potential does not travel at the speed of light in copper (i.e. c=3E8 m/s), but only about 0.65 c? In particular, AlphaPhoenix claimed to measure the length of each of his loops by measuring the time that it took for the potential to travel the loop. But, he used c=3e8 m/s for the speed and got the 'correct' result! WTF? This entire thread is a shitshow. |
| aetherist:
--- Quote from: eugene on February 10, 2022, 09:08:08 pm ---I admit that I skipped a few pages in the middle of this thread, but am I the only one that understands that the electric potential does not travel at the speed of light in copper (i.e. c=3E8 m/s), but only about 0.65 c? In particular, AlphaPhoenix claimed to measure the length of each of his loops by measuring the time that it took for the potential to travel the loop. But, he used c=3e8 m/s for the speed and got the 'correct' result! WTF? This entire thread is a shitshow. --- End quote --- Electricity propagates at the speed of light. If a wire has insulation then the speed is the speed of light in that insulation, say 2c/3 if plastic. I have explained on this forum that electricity is mainly due to the flow of electons on the surface of a wire. Electons are photons, that hug the wire. Hence electricity is indeed light, ie photonic. But u are correct that AlphaPhoenix didnt actually tell us the actual length of his wires. And, his wires probably have a heavy enamel coating, ie plastic (but as usual he duznt tell us). However u are wrong re the speed of light in copper, it is about 10 m/s i think. Not 300,000,000 m/s. |
| TimFox:
Electrons are not photons. Electrons are massive Fermions with charge and spin 1/2. Being massive, they must travel at less than c. Photons are massless Bosons with no charge and spin 1. Being massless, they must travel at c. These properties make a difference in their behavior. |
| Navigation |
| Message Index |
| Next page |
| Previous page |