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"Veritasium" (YT) - "The Big Misconception About Electricity" ?

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adx:
No, it can stay like that.

aetherist:

--- Quote from: adx on February 11, 2022, 01:50:20 am ---Is this the wrong time to introduce the G-string transmission line? (Or would there never be a right time?)
http://amasci.com/tesla/tmistk.html
http://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/g-string-transmission-helical-wave-coils-radio-electronics-june-1951.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goubau_line
Longitudinal surface waves on insulated wire(s), including enamelled. I had to wonder about AlphaPhoenix's experiment at the time.
--- End quote ---
Beaty always has lots of good stuff in his stuff.
Enamel slows my electons (photons hugging the surface of the wire). Hence the slowed electons would be less likely to detach on the outsides of bends in the G-string wire.
I suppose that detaching might be related to centrifugal force effects, because photons (eg electons) have mass (contrary to what conventional science says).
And, as electons have a negative charge, they will tend to concentrate on the outside of any bend (due to repulsion), & the outside of a bend is where the detaching problem must be most critical. Especially if the wire duznt have a smooth surface. Polishing the wire at bends would help, ie before painting with enamel.

But i want to introduce a new (tautology alert) property/trick of electons. Look at a sharp 90 deg bend in a wire.
An electon going around the bend along the outside will (if it duznt detach) go ahead along the new leg ok.
An electon approaching that bend going along the middle of the wire, ie halfway tween inside radius & outside radius, will find that by going straight ahead it will do a u-turn, & will find itself going back the way it came, albeit on the opposite middle of the wire. It has done a u-turn. Conventional science calls this a reflexion. No, electons dont reflect (here), they do u-turns.
Actually, its the surface that has done the u-turn, electons go straight ahead (or so they think).

U-turns are more obvious at the ends of wires. Here again, it aint a reflexion, its a u-turn.

At a new lead acid battery, sitting on the shelf at the store, the negative lead plate & lead strap & lead terminal are covered with electons roaming the surfaces, doing u-turns at ends & edges etc.
If u connect a wire to the negative terminal then the electons will cover  the surface of the wire, up to the end of the wire, where there might be a switch.
When the switch is suddenly closed (ie to connect to another wire) then electons at the switch will then enter the new wire with zero delay, they dont have to come from the battery itself.

In Veritasium's gedanken the 1/c time has to be based on the gap tween the switch & his bulb, not the distance tween the parallel wires.
I hope that readers here are starting to see how my new electricity ticks all of the boxes.

aetherist:

--- Quote from: adx on February 12, 2022, 12:12:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: aetherist on February 12, 2022, 11:12:05 am ---
--- Quote from: adx on February 12, 2022, 10:58:57 am ---
--- Quote from: aetherist on February 12, 2022, 10:08:29 am ---No wave of any kind can propagate at a velocity of any kind unless the medium moves at least briefly at that velocity or more.
--- End quote ---
How does a wave travel at its normal velocity when amplitude is reduced indefinitely?
--- End quote ---
I dont understand. But i am talking about longi (axial) velocity not normal (transverse) velocity.
--- End quote ---
A stick. Quite a long stick. Poke at something fairly rigidly fixed but moves a little. Time how long it takes from pushing until the movement reaches the other end. Now this is complicated by the slowness of the motion needed to demonstrate that slow movement of the medium is translated to fast effect at the far end, but you could time it from peak to peak, or look for a percentage rise at the leading edge. Or simply calculate the max velocity of the medium and expected arrival time of the effect from the statement that the propagation velocity cannot exceed that of the medium's peak velocity. But that may be unsatisfying because it removes the stick from the system.

That's why I asked the question I did: Halve the amplitude of your poking, which halves the peak velocity of the medium. Does it reduce the propagation velocity? No. Ok halve it again, until you see the propagation velocity slow as you predict (when the medium is moving too slowly to support the propagation velocity you first saw). At some point the signal will become lost in noise or measurement precision, but until that point, conventional wave theory says the propagation velocity will not change in a linear medium like a stick. There is no identifiable point where it slows, down to (nearly) zero medium velocity.

Your idea might have more relevance when the propagation velocity is the speed of light.
--- End quote ---
AlphaPhoenix has a youtube that shows that tapping a 3 ft steel rod gives a shock wave that travels at the extensional speed of sound in steel ie 5180 m/s, a little slower than the longitudinal speed of sound of 5940 m/s.
And, the first signal that gets to the far end is a pulling tension, koz the shock wave for a thin rod includes a widening due to the transverse contribution of the Poisson Ratio – followed a little later by the compression.

Anyhow, i am thinking that your stick would be much the same. It must have 2 speeds of sound.
And in addition the speeds would depend on the direction of the grain etc.
Anyhow i can't see how the speed of a poke could exceed the speed of sound.

This speed stuff concerns the old electricity model of the speed of electricity due to drifting electrons.
And it concerns my new electricity model for the speed of electricity due to the flow of electrons on the surface of a wire.
But it does not concern my new electricity model for the speed of electricity due to the propagation of electons hugging the surface of a wire.

However i don’t yet know of any need for my surface electrons to flow very fast, or i should say for their wavefront to propagate very fast, ie c/10,000 might be ok koz my surface electrons play (i think) a minor part in my new electricity, while my electons play (i think) a major part (& they propagate at the speed of photons)(koz they are photons).
Old electricity duznt work if it has only c/10,000, it has to have the full monty, c/1.

We should find out whether c/10,000 is ok (for my new [surface electrons] electricity) when we get around to properly examining the scope traces for the AlphaPhoenix X pt1 & later pt2, & the Howardlong X especially.
I am sort of getting around to that, almost did it today, koz the power was off all morning hence i couldnt reply to the blogs, but i fell asleep -- mightbe i will do it tomorrow.

adx:

--- Quote from: aetherist on February 12, 2022, 09:26:29 pm ---I hope that readers here are starting to see how my new electricity ticks all of the boxes.

--- End quote ---

Yes, the G-string result has parallels with your theory (which is why I posted it).

I see some inconsistency in your descriptions. If an electon has difficulty clinging to an extremely mild curve in a G-line, then what makes some happily navigate a sharp 90 deg bend? "if it duznt detach" isn't an answer, it is a question. Also you posited that electons are photons which travel (primarily?) on the outside of conductors, because EM travels at ~10m/s in copper if I got that right. In which case, your "reflexion" description describes surface electons either progressing around the corner or radiating away, but inner electons always reflect (at 10m/s).

How do you explain a reflection of spacetime ("its the surface that has done the u-turn") if you deny 'Einsteinian' time contraction?

Maybe your theory does tick all of the boxes (I'm not implying I think it does), but what it is also doing is adding mystery, like why electons roam around on the surfaces of battery plates while sitting in the shop, not slowly, but at the speed of light. That is an awful lot of activity for something which appears for all intents and purposes to be static, again the question is not whether they do (in the theory they do), but why they should want to - a good reason for being, beyond being an option which seems to make sense to some people in certain settings (our complaint over the Poynting vector). What this ticked box adds to human 'knowledge' is a question. Each postulate also exists without quantified links to reality (measurement). By that I mean the numerical behaviour which explains (accurately) things like how many electons peel off the wire under defined circumstances. In time this would achieve predictive power beyond being a rough mental crutch to help think through physics situations. In spite of all this box ticking, the mystery quotient is increasing in an unbounded way.

For all its deep mystery (which equates to perhaps an inability to tick a box), conventional electricity theory does make good 'reasons for being' for nearly everything (electrons drift because of electric field and carry potential energy around, skin effect results from inductance and resistance). It also ties all this behaviour together with extremely robust predictive capability which works to "umpteen decimals" (much more accurate than you seem to think), being formulated in terms of mathematics more than thoughts. In that respect its inventors went for the jugular, being all hopped up on science, as was the fashion of the day. It perhaps lacked some imagination.

To that end, continuing on from my earlier post about Popper falsifiability, a good ideal to shoot for might be for half your ideas to fail: Much less, could mean you are either being too unimaginative, or testing too little (or combination).

adx:

--- Quote from: aetherist on February 12, 2022, 10:08:29 am ---No wave of any kind can propagate at a velocity of any kind unless the medium moves at least briefly at that velocity or more.

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: aetherist on February 13, 2022, 02:28:10 am ---Anyhow i can't see how the speed of a poke could exceed the speed of sound.

--- End quote ---

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