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"Veritasium" (YT) - "The Big Misconception About Electricity" ?

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HuronKing:
Hey,

I'm only going to respond to this tidbit below because you've written a lot, the discussion is getting kind of unwieldy, and I think we've both said what we want to say. But I don't wish to diminish the effort you put into writing your reply! I read it and consider my reply to it as "nod thoughtfully and smile."  :D


--- Quote from: adx on March 22, 2022, 09:27:35 am ---

--- Quote from: HuronKing on March 14, 2022, 01:55:45 am ---Probably the real "physicists versus engineers" debate is whether to use i or j for the complex number. And the answer is obviously j because what the heck do you call current then?  :box:

--- End quote ---

You can probably guess my response even when you wrote that! Engineers don't use j (or i). Is there any place in engineering, anywhere, where sqrt(-1) has any physical relevance at all? The only place I've ever seen it doing something useful (beyond being an arcane convenience for mathematicians) is in a Feynman lecture where it quasi-continuously described a wave function inside and out of an energy well or something (I can't find it now).

--- End quote ---

Have you done any work in power engineering? The concept of 'reactive power' is immensely important and is mathematically described perfectly by the usage of sqrt(-1):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power#Reactive_power

And power factor correction to reactive loads is a big deal:
https://www.cui.com/catalog/resource/power-factor

This is just one example. Really the sqrt(-1) shows up anywhere you have harmonic frequency response.
https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/harmonics-influence

And it's ALL OVER THE PLACE in antenna design and simulation. I did a bit of simulation for my RF engineering professor in HFSS when I did my graduate program which he used for cubesat antenna designs. Even with the software doing most of the work for me... the math still kinda sucked to input, lol:
http://www.ece.uprm.edu/~rafaelr/inel6068/HFSS/HFSS_Antenna_v2015_v1/workshop_instructions_trainee/ANSYS_HFSS_Antenna_W03_1_Post_Processing.pdf

HuronKing:
And if you still don't believe me, I'll just refer you to C. Proteus Steinmetz who introduced complex numbers to electrical engineering in 1893 and, in doing so, massively revolutionized and simplified the solutions to engineering problems:
https://kupdf.net/download/complex-quantities-and-their-use-in-electrical-engineering_5900f124dc0d60ae1f959ea1_pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20140105044817/http://zrno.fsb.hr/katedra/download/materijali/966.pdf

aetherist:

--- Quote from: HuronKing on March 22, 2022, 06:02:00 pm ---And if you still don't believe me, I'll just refer you to C. Proteus Steinmetz who introduced complex numbers to electrical engineering in 1893 and, in doing so, massively revolutionized and simplified the solutions to engineering problems:
https://kupdf.net/download/complex-quantities-and-their-use-in-electrical-engineering_5900f124dc0d60ae1f959ea1_pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20140105044817/http://zrno.fsb.hr/katedra/download/materijali/966.pdf

--- End quote ---
Interesting.
Can anyone show me where Steinmetz believed that electricity is due to drifting electrons?
Can anyone show me where Steinmetz believed that the transient impedance was the same animal as resistance?
Steinmetz (stone mason) would have loved my new (electon) electricity, photons hugging a wire.
Both of us were born in Germany. And our names end in z. But my back aint bent.

HuronKing:

--- Quote from: aetherist on March 22, 2022, 06:59:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: HuronKing on March 22, 2022, 06:02:00 pm ---And if you still don't believe me, I'll just refer you to C. Proteus Steinmetz who introduced complex numbers to electrical engineering in 1893 and, in doing so, massively revolutionized and simplified the solutions to engineering problems:
https://kupdf.net/download/complex-quantities-and-their-use-in-electrical-engineering_5900f124dc0d60ae1f959ea1_pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20140105044817/http://zrno.fsb.hr/katedra/download/materijali/966.pdf

--- End quote ---
Interesting.
Can anyone show me where Steinmetz believed that electricity is due to drifting electrons?
Can anyone show me where Steinmetz believed that the transient impedance was the same animal as resistance?
Steinmetz (stone mason) would have loved my new (electon) electricity, photons hugging a wire.
Both of us were born in Germany. And our names end in z. But my back aint bent.

--- End quote ---

Oh you'll want to stay far away from Steinmetz.

*lowers voice*

Steinmetz was an 'Einsteinian.'
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Four_Lectures_on_Relativity_and_Space/MtTPAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover


https://cdm16694.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/schmuse/id/15
https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/albert-einstein-and-charles-steinmetz-1921-general-electric-company/BgEoPZI-5J12Zw

PS
I should add that whatever Steinmetz's opinions about electrons is largely obsolete. He died in 1923, 1 year before Louis de Broglie proposed the wave-particle duality of matter and 6 years before it was experimentally proven. He also died before the Pauli Exclusion Principle was proven (which is an important principle for describing the properties of conductors).

The difference between science and pseudoscience is that the pseudoscientist is obsessed with cults of personality and whatever some-such-and-such 'big name' thought about something. Physics has moved on, even from the legendary genius of Steinmetz. This is 2022, not 1922.

aetherist:

--- Quote from: HuronKing on March 22, 2022, 07:23:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: aetherist on March 22, 2022, 06:59:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: HuronKing on March 22, 2022, 06:02:00 pm ---And if you still don't believe me, I'll just refer you to C. Proteus Steinmetz who introduced complex numbers to electrical engineering in 1893 and, in doing so, massively revolutionized and simplified the solutions to engineering problems:
https://kupdf.net/download/complex-quantities-and-their-use-in-electrical-engineering_5900f124dc0d60ae1f959ea1_pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20140105044817/http://zrno.fsb.hr/katedra/download/materijali/966.pdf
--- End quote ---
Interesting.
Can anyone show me where Steinmetz believed that electricity is due to drifting electrons?
Can anyone show me where Steinmetz believed that the transient impedance was the same animal as resistance?
Steinmetz (stone mason) would have loved my new (electon) electricity, photons hugging a wire.
Both of us were born in Germany. And our names end in z. But my back aint bent.
--- End quote ---
Oh you'll want to stay far away from Steinmetz. *lowers voice*

Steinmetz was an 'Einsteinian.'
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Four_Lectures_on_Relativity_and_Space/MtTPAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover


https://cdm16694.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/schmuse/id/15
https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/albert-einstein-and-charles-steinmetz-1921-general-electric-company/BgEoPZI-5J12Zw

PS
I should add that whatever Steinmetz's opinions about electrons is largely obsolete. He died in 1923, 1 year before Louis de Broglie proposed the wave-particle duality of matter and 6 years before it was experimentally proven. He also died before the Pauli Exclusion Principle was proven (which is an important principle for describing the properties of conductors).

The difference between science and pseudoscience is that the pseudoscientist is obsessed with cults of personality and whatever some-such-and-such 'big name' thought about something. Physics has moved on, even from the legendary genius of Steinmetz. This is 2022, not 1922.
--- End quote ---
Did Steinmetz believe in electrons?
Did Steinmetz believe that electricity was due to drifting electrons inside a wire?

It appears that Steinmetz was an Einsteinist in that Steinmetz believed that the speed of light was a constant.
What would Steinmetz have thort about DeWitte finding that the speed of electricity is not a constant (coax cables)?
And about Torr & Kolen finding that the speed of electricity is not a constant (coax cables)?

What would Steinmetz have thort about new (electon) electricity?

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