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"Veritasium" (YT) - "The Big Misconception About Electricity" ?

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adx:

--- Quote from: HuronKing on April 13, 2022, 02:30:36 am ---You say you're not letting it drive your thoughts... RIGHT BEFORE YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE LETTING IT DRIVE YOUR THOUGHTS.

--- End quote ---

I hoped you wouldn't pick up on that take it that way.

I  don't mean it in such an all or nothing sense. It's possible for me to be careful not to fall into traps over naming, but still appreciate and acknowledge a wider scope to the argument. You're acting as if current knowledge is complete. I'm drawing more from my own thoughts, which I intentionally avoided elaborating on, because they are not helpful at this stage. It's not as if I am starrily-eyedly fanboiing over words.

Perhaps I have been too general in my 'pondering' and skepticism, but I don't doubt for any more than a second that real numbers have more direct physical relevance than imaginary numbers do. If I am appealing to authority, which I doubt I am, it is to add a small dose of skepticism to your 'conventional' claims of absolute concrete rigour and applicability.


--- Quote from: HuronKing on April 13, 2022, 02:30:36 am ---So things only make sense to you if they're named right?

--- End quote ---

I was saying that whatever the name there would still be a problem, and I'd still find it.


--- Quote from: HuronKing on April 13, 2022, 02:30:36 am ---
--- Quote ---Unfortunately in trying to understand your questions here, I get more of a sense of belief and inability to see what I mean.
--- End quote ---

You don't understand my simple questions? The trouble is, as I said, is I do know what you mean. The issue is you don't like my answers or the answers of any of the references I've posted. Whatever.

--- End quote ---

Yes.


--- Quote from: HuronKing on April 13, 2022, 02:30:36 am ---
--- Quote ---I'm not suggesting it is wrong.

--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

Minor point but this was about your belief in mathematics, I wasn't commenting on mathematics itself.


--- Quote from: HuronKing on April 13, 2022, 02:30:36 am ---
--- Quote ---All my objections to imaginary numbers in engineering disappear for polar notation (for obvious reason). I just prefer complex notation and operations.
--- End quote ---

You object to the imaginary numbers... but you prefer complex notation...

--- End quote ---

I didn't say I like complex notation. It just makes more sense in x y coordinates.


--- Quote from: HuronKing on April 13, 2022, 02:30:36 am ---That's it. I'm done. You win.

--- End quote ---

By failing to learn something fundamental and useful. Except I sort of did. So I lost.

bsfeechannel:

--- Quote from: adx on April 13, 2022, 07:32:35 am ---The entire purpose of educating students seems to ultimately get them to believe things they can go on to (never) use.

--- End quote ---

The entire purpose of educating students is to provide them with the shoulders of giants upon which they'll stand.


--- Quote ---Especially engineering math.
--- End quote ---

For the math illiterate, everything looks like a magic number. For that ability you don't need an engineer. Any untrained person will do.


--- Quote from: adx on April 13, 2022, 03:03:39 pm ---Nope and nope. I meant sqrt(-1) hardly factors (non-mathematical meaning) into complex phasors.

--- End quote ---

\$\sqrt{-1}\$ is everywhere. Since (\$\sqrt{-1}\$)² = -1, every negative number has it. And since (\$\sqrt{-1}\$)⁴ = 1, positive numbers do too.


--- Quote ---O altar o proof, where artst [sic] thou?
--- End quote ---

In an engineering math course near you.

SiliconWizard:
\$\sqrt{-1} = \sqrt{e^{i.\pi}} = (e^{i.\pi})^{1/2} = e^{i.\pi/2} = i\$

Using the polar form, you can see that the square root of a complex number halves its argument.
But the root (pun?) of the "issue" is that adx doesn't see -1 as a complex number here, or the set of complex numbers as a superset of real numbers - I guess he sees them as completely separate entities.

adx:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 15, 2022, 03:28:49 am ---\$\sqrt{-1} = \sqrt{e^{i.\pi}} = (e^{i.\pi})^{1/2} = e^{i.\pi/2} = i\$

Using the polar form, you can see that the square root of a complex number halves its argument.
But the root (pun?) of the "issue" is that adx doesn't see -1 as a complex number here, or the set of complex numbers as a superset of real numbers - I guess he sees them as completely separate entities.

--- End quote ---

That's pretty much it. I see the imaginary numbers more as a parallel sequence of numbers existing in a different 'realm' than the real numbers. If they were to cross (which seems possible because of zero) then it would be at an infinitesimal angle. Or something more like a peace sign than a cross. Concepts only, not pictures! Just the idea of a different existence than the direct or obvious assignment of a physical degree of freedom implies, the sense that something no matter how small, is missing. And if so, writing a + jb is an incorrect and / or artificial construct. Rotation is an unavoidable consequence of saying (or defining) i*i = -1 (here is use j = i). Algebra isn't physical (or that's what I see) -  the universe doesn't solve, it iterates. Somewhere in there is a link I cannot make or doesn't exist. I could be wrong, but it is my mind's prerogative to not accept something that it doesn't understand.

bsfeechannel:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 15, 2022, 03:28:49 am ---But the root (pun?) of the "issue" is that adx doesn't see -1 as a complex number here, or the set of complex numbers as a superset of real numbers - I guess he sees them as completely separate entities.

--- End quote ---

It's a little worse. He also thinks 1 is not a complex number.

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