General > General Technical Chat
"Veritasium" (YT) - "The Big Misconception About Electricity" ?
EEVblog:
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on January 01, 2022, 01:34:15 am ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on December 31, 2021, 11:39:44 pm ---Nice explanation, sounds pretty solid to me. Quantum probability theory trumping Poynting?
--- End quote ---
It was rather offhand and not really rigorous and didn't really address the actual question (1m/c or 1 second). The presentation started to discuss the nature of fields, but then seemed more to only address the earlier part of Derek's video. Perhaps that was the intent.
--- End quote ---
The switch question is secondary to the purpose of the video which was to show the "misconception" that energy flows in the field around the wire instead of within the wire. That is the fundamental question. To me the switch question is a different discussion entirely, and probably a detriment to the fundamental question the video proposes. The question is one fundamentally of fields.
This is why I think any discussion about fundamentals of the "misconception" video should be discussed at DC steady state. Or at the very least, 50/60Hz mains.
bdunham7:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on January 01, 2022, 01:55:24 am ---To me the switch question is a different discussion entirely, and probably a detriment to the fundamental question the video proposes....
This is why I think any discussion about fundamentals of the "misconception" video should be discussed at DC steady state. Or at the very least, 50/60Hz mains.
--- End quote ---
OK, I'm entirely with you there, the 1m/c trick question is really a non-sequitur. I think that was also part of my original knee-jerk criticism on the first page of this thread.
SiliconWizard:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on December 31, 2021, 11:39:44 pm ---The switch question is secondary to the purpose of the video which was to show the "misconception" that energy flows in the field around the wire instead of within the wire.
--- End quote ---
Well, you're right. But that's the fundamental issue with this video. The transient phase is the only way he's found to illustrate the point.
--- Quote from: EEVblog on January 01, 2022, 01:55:24 am ---That is the fundamental question. To me the switch question is a different discussion entirely, and probably a detriment to the fundamental question the video proposes. The question is one fundamentally of fields.
--- End quote ---
Sure, but the video started it. That's what the video proposes. And I agree it is detrimental to the point made in the *title* of the video.
--- Quote from: EEVblog on January 01, 2022, 01:55:24 am ---This is why I think any discussion about fundamentals of the "misconception" video should be discussed at DC steady state. Or at the very least, 50/60Hz mains.
--- End quote ---
At DC steady state only would be really good actually. But unfortunately, I don't think the video addressed that properly. Which leads me to ask: what kind of illustration, and from there, experiment, could you devise to prove the fundamental question, *at DC steady state*? It looks much trickier.
EEVblog:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 01, 2022, 02:26:25 am ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on December 31, 2021, 11:39:44 pm ---The switch question is secondary to the purpose of the video which was to show the "misconception" that energy flows in the field around the wire instead of within the wire.
--- End quote ---
Well, you're right. But that's the fundamental issue with this video. The transient phase is the only way he's found to illustrate the point.
--- Quote from: EEVblog on January 01, 2022, 01:55:24 am ---That is the fundamental question. To me the switch question is a different discussion entirely, and probably a detriment to the fundamental question the video proposes. The question is one fundamentally of fields.
--- End quote ---
Sure, but the video started it. That's what the video proposes. And I agree it is detrimental to the point made in the *title* of the video.
--- Quote from: EEVblog on January 01, 2022, 01:55:24 am ---This is why I think any discussion about fundamentals of the "misconception" video should be discussed at DC steady state. Or at the very least, 50/60Hz mains.
--- End quote ---
At DC steady state only would be really good actually. But unfortunately, I don't think the video addressed that properly. Which leads me to ask: what kind of illustration, and from there, experiment, could you devise to prove the fundamental question, *at DC steady state*? It looks much trickier.
--- End quote ---
Yep, totally agree on those points. I don't think the question added value to the title proposal.
Currently chatting with Derek about it and this is my latest reply to him:
"But once again for me it comes down to the DC question (and also low frequency AC like 50/60Hz power transmission). Does the energy *actually* flow in the field or not. My engineer mind is vastly more at ease with the quantum field theory and it's implication at DC and LF. I'd only take power flowing in the field (and hence dielectrics like PCB material and coax cable material) at really high frequencies. It just doesn't "feel right" that the energy is flowing in the field at DC."
and
"I think when it comes to the switch question, the circuit parasitics come into play in the first instances. The capacitance beteen the wires, transmission line theory, antenna theory, coupled transformer theory, and any other engineering viewpoint you want to throw at it. This is why the experimental result is going to match the the results predicted by these engineering methods and models.
I think the problem is that your video has actually generated two different debates. A more practical engineering level one, and a more theoretical physics debate. I now think it's possibly a mistake to try and mix the two, and answer the physics question with the engineering results.
Ultimately they both have to reconcile at some point of course, but the semantics matter."
EEVblog:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 01, 2022, 02:26:25 am ---At DC steady state only would be really good actually. But unfortunately, I don't think the video addressed that properly. Which leads me to ask: what kind of illustration, and from there, experiment, could you devise to prove the fundamental question, *at DC steady state*? It looks much trickier.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure there is? :-//
If there was, I think that would be good experimental evidence for quantum field theory?
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