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Veritasium "How Electricity Actually Works"

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SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: hamster_nz on May 05, 2022, 01:59:54 am ---Only a tiniest initial amount is will be transferred directly over the 1m gap.

--- End quote ---

Yes. Which is basically what most of us had been considering all along, and that was later shown by a couple experiments. So, well, this is one of those topics that are kinda running in circles.

Has the whole thing shown that many people, including engineers, had misconceptions about "electricity" and that the model they frequently use, while working well enough in a large number of situations, is flawed? Yes. Has it really fully explained "how electricity works"? There are still some quirky corners there. I'm afraid that quite a few people, after having followed all this, will now understand that they had misconceptions, but will embrace a new concept that might itself lead to more misconceptions. Whichever is a better misconception among all those might not be so obvious in the end.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: hamster_nz on May 05, 2022, 01:59:54 am ---You might have missed a word in there somewhere.
Are you saying if I have 1A DC in the primary I will have current flowing in the secondary?
Or just that with no current in the primary windings there will be no current in the secondary?

--- End quote ---

No there will be no current in the secondary but there will be a current in the primary so basically a heating element.

Say you have a 600VA 120Vac 5A input transformer the output is irrelevant it can be anything as it will not be connected to anything.
So with primary connected to 120Vac and nothing on the output you maybe have a little bit of losses in the magnetic core so a bit of heat from there and the small associated IR losses in the primary copper.
With AC you just push energy in to the transformer to store as magnetic field in the ferromagnetic core but then that gets returned with just a bit of loss as the magnetic core is not perfect. So all energy is transmitted trough wires then converted to a magnetic field then due to ferromagnetic materials not being perfect you have some small loss then energy is converted back form magnetic to electric (electron flow) and sent back to your source so you have two way losses trough copper wires and a bit of loss in the ferromagnetic core.

You will sure not want to apply 120Vdc to that primary as you will then see that energy travels trough wires and not outside of them.




--- Quote from: hamster_nz on May 05, 2022, 01:59:54 am ---
--- Quote ---The transient at connection [of a DC source to a transformer] is not DC.

--- End quote ---
Agreed - during the transient there is a changing magnetic field, and that changing field will causes a voltage across the transformer's secondary windings during the transient.

Once the magnetic field in the primary becomes stable then no more energy will be transferred to the secondary windings (apart from heat). That is until the DC source is disconnected. Then more as second pulse of energy will be transferred into the secondary (even though the DC source is disconnected!)

A resistor connected across the transformer's secondary windings will get (slightly) warmer during each of these transients - energy has been transferred from DC source to the resistor without them being electrically connected. That energy has definitely flowed between the two insulated wires that make up the transformer's winding (yes, through the insulation!).

The original Veritasium experiment has very long wires and so has a very long transient, during which a small amount of energy is transferred into the load through the space between the wires. But where along the wires this energy transfer is happening continuously changes depending on where the transient has got to. Only a tiniest initial amount is will be transferred directly over the 1m gap.

--- End quote ---

Sorry I answered first part without reading this second part that shows you understand how a transformer works not quite sure why you do not realize that energy is delivered trough wires to the load.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on May 05, 2022, 02:13:54 am ---Yes. Which is basically what most of us had been considering all along, and that was later shown by a couple experiments. So, well, this is one of those topics that are kinda running in circles.

Has the whole thing shown that many people, including engineers, had misconceptions about "electricity" and that the model they frequently use, while working well enough in a large number of situations, is flawed? Yes. Has it really fully explained "how electricity works"? There are still some quirky corners there. I'm afraid that quite a few people, after having followed all this, will now understand that they had misconceptions, but will embrace a new concept that might itself lead to more misconceptions. Whichever is a better misconception among all those might not be so obvious in the end.

--- End quote ---

I will say current models that engineers use are very accurate. Of course a transmission line modeled as finite number of LCR components will provide an approximation but even if you use analog computers you still need to read the result and that may be even less accurate due to measurement (reading) precision.
I still think that understanding what energy is and how energy storage is everywhere will be helpful for a better understanding.
Many including Derek just do not understand what energy is and it gets confused with all sorts of other things.

I guess I have the advantage that I work with energy generation and storage as a hobby.

bsfeechannel:
I find it funny and at the same time annoying that these people who are reluctant to properly study math and physics, and end up struggling especially with electromagnetism, like to talk in the name of engineers, as if their misconceptions were the general mindset of our class so as to justify their position.

The hydraulic analogy, the origin of the energy in the wire idea, was dismissed right from the start by Maxwell himself in the 19th century. Derek only made this incontestable knowledge available to the masses.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on May 05, 2022, 03:38:45 am ---I find it funny and at the same time annoying that these people who are reluctant to properly study math and physics, and end up struggling especially with electromagnetism, like to talk in the name of engineers, as if their misconceptions were the general mindset of our class so as to justify their position.

The hydraulic analogy, the origin of the energy in the wire idea, was dismissed right from the start by Maxwell himself in the 19th century. Derek only made this incontestable knowledge available to the masses.

--- End quote ---


Point to me where I have posted a wrong equation. All equations that I used to make the demonstration that energy travels trough wires and not outside the wires as Derek claims are used by engineers and physicist.

There are many posts as I try to refine/distill my explanation to the simplest form possible.

The two parallel capacitors are the simplest example I can give that demonstrate without any doubt that energy transfer is done trough wires and not outside of it.

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