| General > General Technical Chat |
| Veritasium "How Electricity Actually Works" |
| << < (48/185) > >> |
| electrodacus:
It will make no sense for me to answer to you individually (last 4 posts). You all lack significant understanding about what energy is and what energy storage is. Today is late and I do not feel like but tomorrow I will take that oscilloscope screenshot from Derek's last video and I will explain exactly what each part means and what it represents. Maybe that will be helpful but I doubt that. Derek I think mentioned the same thing is his last video, that he can not see how if same number of electrons exit the battery as they enter then how any energy was transferred by them. The answer is very simple. The electrons could only exit one side and enter the other because there was an imbalance between the two sides. Analogies are never good but imagine a compressed air cylinder with two chambers divided by an elastic membrane (dielectric equivalent in a capacitor). When this cylinder has the same amount of gas particle (any gas say Nitrogen) on each side of the membrane it contains no energy but if you use say mechanical energy to move with a pump molecules from one side to the other side then you have a device that stored energy equivalent to a charged capacitor or battery. Now if you connect a pipe connecting the two sides/chambers of this cylinder you have the equivalent to connecting a wire between the terminals of a charged capacitor. In both cases the stored energy will end up as heat. You can use that pressure differential to convert that stored energy in to something more useful than heat say mechanical energy by spinning a turbine and still the same number of molecules will exit one side of the cylinder and enter the other side. |
| hamster_nz:
--- Quote from: aetherist on May 07, 2022, 12:23:45 am --- --- Quote from: hamster_nz on May 06, 2022, 11:01:53 pm ---The very fact that in a given wire the electrons drift the same speed for the same current should be enough to conclusively prove that electrons are not carrying the energy, and the energy is in the fields. 1A @ 1V (1 J/s)through a 2mm diameter wire? anywhere along the wire 6.24 x 10^18 electrons will drift past, drifting at an average of 23 μm/s. 1A @ 1000V, (1000 J/s), the same 2mm diameter wire? anywhere along the wire 6.24 x 10^18 electrons will drift past, drifting at an average of 23 μm/s. The motion of electrons is not transferring the energy - it does not change with energy being transferred. Also, how much does that number of electrons weigh? (you can do the math if you like) - so little weight moving at such a slow speed transfers very close to zero kinetic energy. There is very little 'electron hammer' effect (analogous to water hammer). --- End quote --- Drifting electrons always weigh 1.7 kg per cubic m of Cu. If drifting exists. If electrons exist. And i have my suspicions about wire. --- End quote --- So for 1m length of 2mm diameter copper wire (~30g of copper) that's about 5mg of drifting electrons. At 1A those electrons are drifting at the average speed of about 23 μm/s, regardless of the if that wire is transferring 0.1W or 1000W... The kinetic energy of those electrons is half of stuff all (or more formally 0.5 * 0.005g * 0.000023 m/s * 0.000023 m/s = 0.00000000000000132 J) |
| aetherist:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on May 07, 2022, 01:33:05 am ---It will make no sense for me to answer to you individually (last 4 posts). You all lack significant understanding about what energy is and what energy storage is. Today is late and I do not feel like but tomorrow I will take that oscilloscope screenshot from Derek's last video and I will explain exactly what each part means and what it represents. Maybe that will be helpful but I doubt that. Derek I think mentioned the same thing is his last video, that he can not see how if same number of electrons exit the battery as they enter then how any energy was transferred by them. The answer is very simple. The electrons could only exit one side and enter the other because there was an imbalance between the two sides. Analogies are never good but imagine a compressed air cylinder with two chambers divided by an elastic membrane (dielectric equivalent in a capacitor). When this cylinder has the same amount of gas particle (any gas say Nitrogen) on each side of the membrane it contains no energy but if you use say mechanical energy to move with a pump molecules from one side to the other side then you have a device that stored energy equivalent to a charged capacitor or battery. Now if you connect a pipe connecting the two sides/chambers of this cylinder you have the equivalent to connecting a wire between the terminals of a charged capacitor. In both cases the stored energy will end up as heat. You can use that pressure differential to convert that stored energy in to something more useful than heat say mechanical energy by spinning a turbine and still the same number of molecules will exit one side of the cylinder and enter the other side. --- End quote --- Ok, i am keen to see what u have to say about the scope screenshot. In the meantime allow me to soften u up re energy. (1) Energy is a source of force. The creation of a force needs mass (2). And it (3) needs a medium & a process to transmit the energy or force & (4) it needs a medium & process to tap into that source. There are only 4 kinds of force, (5) gravitational force, & (6) inertial force, & (7) electric (charge) force, & (8 ) magnetic force. There is only one medium, it is (9) the aether. (10) There are at least 8 kinds of aether process, we need 2 ovem here today, (10a) the bulk macro flow of aether (giving 5 & 6), & (10b) the micro excitation of aether (giving 7 & 8 ). (11) Everything we feel & see is made of photons, the fundamental (quasi) particle. (12) Photons have mass. (13) Photons emit photaenos (14). (15) Photaenos have mass. (16) Photaenos give us the em field (giving us 7 & 8 ). (17) Energy is stored in photons & (18 ) photaenos. (19 ) Energy is stored in the kinetic movement of mass. (20) Energy is stored in the position of mass (potential energy). (21) Electric energy is stored in electons, ie photons that hug the surface of the wire. (22) Plus it is stored in the photaenos that are emitted as a part of every photon & electron (ie the em field). (23) Plus it is stored in free-ish surface electrons on a wire. (24) Plus it is stored in drifting electrons. (25) Re the other 6 processes not mentioned in (10), 5 of these 6 are (26) the creation of aether, (27) the annihilation of aether, (28) the creation of photons, (29) the annihilation of photons. (30) the annihilation of photaenos. The remaining process is my secret. (31) Energy duznt exist, what we have is (32) force. (30) Force duznt exist, what we have is mass & position. (31) Mass (gravitational mass) duznt exist, what we have is the desire to change position. (32) Mass (inertial mass) duznt exist, what we have is the resistance to any change of position. (33) Everything is a process (of the aether). |
| aetherist:
--- Quote from: hamster_nz on May 07, 2022, 02:15:09 am --- --- Quote from: aetherist on May 07, 2022, 12:23:45 am --- --- Quote from: hamster_nz on May 06, 2022, 11:01:53 pm ---The very fact that in a given wire the electrons drift the same speed for the same current should be enough to conclusively prove that electrons are not carrying the energy, and the energy is in the fields. 1A @ 1V (1 J/s)through a 2mm diameter wire? anywhere along the wire 6.24 x 10^18 electrons will drift past, drifting at an average of 23 μm/s. 1A @ 1000V, (1000 J/s), the same 2mm diameter wire? anywhere along the wire 6.24 x 10^18 electrons will drift past, drifting at an average of 23 μm/s. The motion of electrons is not transferring the energy - it does not change with energy being transferred. Also, how much does that number of electrons weigh? (you can do the math if you like) - so little weight moving at such a slow speed transfers very close to zero kinetic energy. There is very little 'electron hammer' effect (analogous to water hammer). --- End quote --- Drifting electrons always weigh 1.7 kg per cubic m of Cu. If drifting exists. If electrons exist. And i have my suspicions about wire. --- End quote --- So for 1m length of 2mm diameter copper wire (~30g of copper) that's about 5mg of drifting electrons. At 1A those electrons are drifting at the average speed of about 23 μm/s, regardless of the if that wire is transferring 0.1W or 1000W... The kinetic energy of those electrons is half of stuff all (or more formally 0.5 * 0.005g * 0.000023 m/s * 0.000023 m/s = 0.00000000000000132 J) --- End quote --- They might not carry much energy, but they can transmit lots of energy (from the source). If drifting electrons exist. |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: aetherist on May 07, 2022, 03:04:47 am ---Ok, i am keen to see what u have to say about the scope screenshot. In the meantime allow me to soften u up re energy. (1) Energy is a source of force. The creation of a force needs mass (2). And it (3) needs a medium & a process to transmit the energy or force & (4) it needs a medium & process to tap into that source. There are only 4 kinds of force, (5) gravitational force, & (6) inertial force, & (7) electric (charge) force, & (8 ) magnetic force. There is only one medium, it is (9) the aether. --- End quote --- I need to ask what is your qualification. I will not bother to read the rest of what you wrote. There is absolutely zero evidence that energy in this particular case can travel outside the wire. I guess my only way to explain is some sort of mechanical analogies but you did not mentioned anything about my last analogy with compressed gas in a cylinder with two chambers separated by an elastic membrane. If there are more molecules in one chamber then if they have a path they will like to move in the other chamber in order to get to the lowest energy state so equal amount of molecules in both chambers. While as many molecules will enter the low pressure chamber as they will exit form the high pressure one there will be energy delivered by them. Why will you think there will be any difference for electrons stored in a capacitor ? Also why when transferring energy between two identical capacitors half of the energy is lost and using a thermal camera you can see where all that energy went and it is in conductors making it quite obvious that energy traveled trough wires and due to resistance half of transferred energy was lost. |
| Navigation |
| Message Index |
| Next page |
| Previous page |