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Veritasium "How Electricity Actually Works"
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T3sl4co1l:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 08, 2022, 07:47:21 pm ---As you asked someone else a few messages back, "I need to ask what is your qualification." Seems that literally everyone is wrong except for you, so what is your qualification for having the definitive knowledge about energy?

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Fair turnabout; ah, but qualifications only matter if anyone was taking him seriously.  :popcorn:

Tim
electrodacus:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 08, 2022, 07:47:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: electrodacus on May 08, 2022, 07:25:14 pm ---
--- Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 08, 2022, 06:59:53 pm ---

--- Quote ---I guess those two are professors at MIT and same as the other professor at University of California Alex have a poor understanding of energy storage.

--- End quote ---

:-DD

Tim

--- End quote ---

I will need to correct this as it is unfair since I have no read the book written by them. In case of Alex I have seen his inability to understand energy by being unable to explain how that vehicle works and win the bet with Derek.

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As you asked someone else a few messages back, "I need to ask what is your qualification." Seems that literally everyone is wrong except for you, so what is your qualification for having the definitive knowledge about energy?

--- End quote ---

I'm an electrical engineer but work with energy storage and energy generation (is both my job but more importantly my hobby).
I looked probably at all forms of energy generation and energy storage so maybe that gives me a better understanding of energy.

It seems in this particular problem people confuse charge with energy. I do not think I seen the energy equation in Derek's video yet the main claim he makes is that "energy doesn't travel through wires" with is completely wrong.
He made the same mistake with the "faster than wind direct downwind vehicle with is powered by the wind only".  That is more than a perpetuum mobile is an overunity device claim (obviously not true).
Alex the profesor knew that since such a machine will violate the conservation of energy but was unable to figure out that energy storage was involved so that vehicle energy storage device was charged while below wind speed using wind energy and that stored energy is what allowed the vehicle to temporarily exceed wind speed (not indefinitely as claimed).
To make the claim fit they used wrong equations (equation Derek or the guy that "invented" the machine came up just to fit their silly explanation).
So while Alex did not made any false claim on camera he as a physics professor should have understood how the vehicle works and debunk the claim instead of offer it even more credibility.
aetherist:

--- Quote from: SandyCox on May 08, 2022, 09:49:28 am ---Circuit theory isn't sufficient to solve the two-capacitor problem. We need to take the electrodynamic behavior of the system into account.

So let's do the thought experiment of connecting a charged and a discharged capacitor in parallel at t=0s. We assume that all the conductors are perfect and that the two capacitors are of the parallel plate type with vacuum between the plates. The two capacitors can be modelled as two lossless transmission lines (see for instance House and Melcher example 14.2.1). After the two capacitors are connected in parallel, an electromagnetic wave will bounce back and forth between the two capacitors. The amount of energy stored in each capacitor will fluctuate, but the total amount of stored energy in the two capacitors will remain the same.

If we go to the next level and take electromagnetic radiation into account, then al the energy will be radiated into space over time.

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U suggest a gedanken where a charged capacitor & a discharged capacitor are suddenly connected in parallel.
One way to connect the 2 capacitors in parallel is to have 2 switches, which is what i asked for earlier.

Yes, a capacitor can be modelled as a parallel pair of transmission lines.

I don’t agree that an em wave will bounce back & forth tween the 2 capacitors. Electricity will bounce back & forth. And if electricity is an em wave then yes an em wave will bounce back & forth.
But i suspect that your em wave is Veritasium's Poynting Vector or Poynting Field. The Poynting Vector or Field are not electricity. I don’t know what they are. Praps some kind of description of what exists. But certainly not a description of what makes things happen.

No, circuit theory is not sufficient to solve the 2 capacitor problem, & no, the electrodynamic behaviour of the system is not sufficient. Both fail. Both are wrong. It comes down to what is electricity. 
If we use a bad theory for electricity then we are unlikely to solve an electricity problem. If we do solve an electricity problem then that would be due to good luck (the scientific term is i think     equivalence).  But, we know that circuit theory plus electrodynamic behaviour plus luck fail every time.

If lossless, then all of the energy will not be radiated into space over time.
There will be no heat losses, there will be no radiation losses.

Listen. Photons do not looz energy over time (ignoring things which rob energy from a photon). Photons are eternal (ignoring things). Electricity consists of photons (not electrons)(not em waves)(not silly Poynting stuff), hence in your gedanken the electricity will be eternal.

Hey, just noticed, this is my 400th posting/reply/comment on this forum.  :-+
I have cast 400 pearls.
TimFox:
"Photons do not looz energy over time (ignoring things which rob energy from a photon)."
Tautological, yet mis-spelled.
Photons are emitted and absorbed all the time.  In Compton scattering of x-ray photons, the photon loses a fraction of its energy.
aetherist:

--- Quote from: TimFox on May 08, 2022, 10:29:29 pm ---"Photons do not looz energy over time (ignoring things which rob energy from a photon)."
Tautological, yet mis-spelled.
Photons are emitted and absorbed all the time.  In Compton scattering of x-ray photons, the photon loses a fraction of its energy.
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A photon left well alone duznt change in any way.
I will spell proper when u & all talk proper (ie i will use archaic spelling when u & all use archaic pronunciation).

Photons are eternal (almost). Once created they exist forever (until they are killed)(there are at least 2 ways, which i wont go into today).

Yes, photons can be emitted, & absorbed, & praps cut up (Compton), & stretched, & bent (& in the end annihilated).
But until they are annihilated they are eternal.

So too electrons. But, electrons are photons. Hence in a way old (electron) electricity is photonic.
My new (electon) electricity is of course purely photonic (my electons propagating at the speed of light).
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