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Veritasium "How Electricity Actually Works"

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bsfeechannel:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on May 12, 2022, 02:30:49 am ---The other big thread used to be filled with the Maxwell/Poynting Bro's absolutely shooting down anyone who dared even hinted at suggesting anything other than a 100% Poynting explanation, and heaven forbid if you got even even the slightest direction of Poynting vector wrong, it's was flaming pitchforks.
Now all the Poynting bros have vanished and both threads are now completely dominated by the Energy In The Wire (EIT) absolutists.
LOL  :-DD  :popcorn:

--- End quote ---

The Poynting guys are away having a party while the wirists are here licking their own wounds.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: IanB on May 12, 2022, 03:12:53 am ---
At this point, it is really not clear what you disagree with.

--- End quote ---

I disagree with the main statement Derek made (it is in the video thumbnail) and that is "energy doesn't flow in wires"
There is absolutely no evidence for that.  If you think you know what that evidence is then let me know.


hamster_nz:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on May 12, 2022, 03:32:09 am ---
--- Quote from: IanB on May 12, 2022, 03:12:53 am ---
At this point, it is really not clear what you disagree with.

--- End quote ---

I disagree with the main statement Derek made (it is in the video thumbnail) and that is "energy doesn't flow in wires"
There is absolutely no evidence for that.  If you think you know what that evidence is then let me know.

--- End quote ---

And yet without picking an arbitrary external reference you are unable to point to show one measurable difference between a wire that is carrying 0.1V @ 1mA and the same type of wire carrying 100V @ 1mA.

They even have the same (minimal) internal resistive heating.
They have the same magnetic field around them.
They have the same voltage drop from end to end.

And that is with an energy difference of three orders of magnitude... that is pretty strong evidence.

If you have to use an external reference, that is a pretty strong indicator that is is where it is in space that matters - that where it is in the electric field defines the energy.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: hamster_nz on May 12, 2022, 04:01:16 am ---And yet without picking an arbitrary external reference you are unable to point to show one measurable difference between a wire that is carrying 0.1V @ 1mA and the same type of wire carrying 100V @ 1mA.

They even have the same (minimal) internal resistive heating.
They have the same magnetic field around them.
They have the same voltage drop from end to end.

And that is with an energy difference of three orders of magnitude... that is pretty strong evidence.

If you have to use an external reference, that is a pretty strong indicator that is is where it is in space that matters - that where it is in the electric field defines the energy.

--- End quote ---

You will have a different circuit at least a different lamp if you want your circuit to use 1mA.
At 0.1V for the voltage source the lamp resistance including the likely negligible wire resistance will need to be 100Ohm so that current is 1mA
At 100V the lamp will need to be 100kOhm to get that same 1mA.
So circuit will be very different but wires have resistance to current flow the voltage is irrelevant other than wire isolation or separation in air between wires.
So the difference is the lamp that is also a wire if we are talking about an incandescent lamp.
First lamp will be 0.1mW while second lamp will be 0.1W. If you keep the same wires the voltage drop across the wires will be the same since current is the same thus energy loss on the wire will be the same.

So I have no idea what you want to prove with this example.

bsfeechannel:

--- Quote from: Naej on May 10, 2022, 05:23:17 pm ---I must have missed it. Please explain what experiment was done,

--- End quote ---
Very funny. The only thing I did in this thread was to indicate all the experimental data that support the energy flowing in space.


--- Quote ---what was predicted by the S=JV folks, and what was found. (And why Poynting-Heaviside-etc. do not talk about it.)

--- End quote ---

What they accomplished no one knows. What they didn't, we know. They didn't manage to come up with an alternative that doesn't break causality, locality, gauge invariance or a combination of these.

That's why, despite objections regarding its counterintuitive nature, Poynting is the most probable explanation for the flow of energy.


--- Quote ---I guess you're correct, something true is now in the bin for millions of people. How remarkable.
--- End quote ---

Truth? Science is about knowledge. If you are the truth bearer, you're not doing science.


--- Quote ---I also wonder how exactly all physicists proposing alternatives to the Poynting theorem never saw Derek's antennae coming in the whole 20th century. They must feel very silly now (no).

--- End quote ---

They didn't. But their peers did and criticized their proposals. That's why Poynting still stands.

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