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Veritasium "How Electricity Actually Works"

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electrodacus:

--- Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 12, 2022, 10:38:39 am ---For consideration:


That was something like 3kW for a minute, at 10kHz or so, on a very rusty 1/4" thick steel plate.

The heating pattern is indicative of skin effect around the outer edge of the workpiece, though the glowing areas are much wider than the current paths due to the long heating duration.  Nonetheless it's more than adequate to see the superficial current flow path, preference for long sides, and avoidance of corners.

Tim

--- End quote ---

You do not understand what happens there and how an induction heater works. Also the skin effect has nothing to do with Derek's DC experiment nor it has anything to do with energy traveling through or outside the wire question.
The steel piece that you are heating is magnetic and those losses are due to resistance to magnetic field not electric current.
Nobody denies the skin effect exist for AC and at high frequency is very significant it just has nothing to do with the discussion about electrical energy flowing through wires or not.

PlainName:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on May 12, 2022, 04:38:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 12, 2022, 08:53:49 am ---
More diversion. You said we would see, as a pillar of your argument. So we want to see it, to recognise what you said was so. Now, when asked how to do that, you say we don't need to, or that it's an obvious effect of something else.

You made it up, didn't you? You can't prove it or show it and all you can do is circular arguments hoping that's not the one you end with when the music stops.

--- End quote ---

I already did
--- End quote ---

No, you did not.


--- Quote --- but you may have missed that post
--- End quote ---

I thought perhaps I had, but apparently I saw what you think passes for it.


--- Quote --- or it went over your head.
--- End quote ---

Ha ha! Just solve everything with the ad homs, eh.


--- Quote ---Take a multimeter set it on resistance and measure the resistance of a copper pipe and then of a copper bar.  Let me know if you will measure the same resistance.
If you measure a lower resistance for the copper bar and it just happens to be proportional with the sectional area of the copper that means electrons are free to travel through the entire section of the wire not just the outside portion for a DC current.
--- End quote ---

Do you normally have problems comprehending a simple question? (Answer: yes, this web forum is full of examples)

Resistance has got nothing whatever to do with this. Once again, you said "you will see that the conductor heats uniformly on the entire conductor cross section" (my emphasis because you apparently can't recognise your own words).

So once again, how does one "see that the conductor heats uniformly on the entire conductor cross section"? We don't want it implied by measuring resistance, we want to be able to see it, as you told us we could and would.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: SandyCox on May 12, 2022, 12:38:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: electrodacus on May 12, 2022, 03:06:39 am ---I sure not heard about him at university (Electrical engineering in some east european country).

--- End quote ---
The fact that you haven't heard about something doesn't mean that is wrong or unimportant. It just means that your education was bad. You also didn't know about preservation of charge which is a fundamental concept. I suggest that you work through a good book on Electromagnetics. You are clearly out of your depth.

--- End quote ---

I did not studied history of electricity but applied electrical engineering based on latest understanding of the subject.
You do not understand what conservation of charge means and how it applies to an isolated system.
What you care about in the two or three parallel capacitor problem is conservation of energy.
You are unable to make predictions about a system because you do not understand how to apply the known equations.
That is why people do not think paralleling two ideal and identical capacitors (no resistance in circuit) 3V for charged one will result in 2.121V
And you can get very close to that also by using a DC-DC converter to transfer energy from one capacitor to the other.   

hamster_nz:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on May 12, 2022, 04:32:37 pm ---Yes if you place a charged particle in an electric field it will be accelerated but note the action you take to put a charged particle there.

--- End quote ---
And placing the charge in the central region takes more 'action', and it stubbornly refuses to accelerate. It just sits there.


--- Quote ---The potential difference for the capacitor is 10V in both cases and as far as energy is concerned it makes absolutely no difference. The zero/ground is something arbitrary that we chose.

--- End quote ---
And yet you say that an charge that you say a charge in a wire is carrying high potential energy is somehow 'different' to one that has zero potential energy? You talk of "high energy electrons" moving slowly in the wires.


--- Quote ---A single inductor is an energy storage device same as the capacitor is an energy storage device and so with transformer you can store energy by creating a magnetic field while supplying the primary and then retrieve that stored energy with the secondary or the other way around or with the same.

--- End quote ---
I can't resolve your statements with that all the energy is in the wires, when now you are talking about storing it (and even transferring it) in a magnetic field


--- Quote ---Of course a transmission line is a series of inductors, capacitors and resistors and of course you can see them if you can see the wires of the transmission line and understand what a capacitor, inductor and resistor are.

--- End quote ---
Show me a picture of an inductor in Derick's video, or even just a capacitor


--- Quote ---The energy of a radio transmitter will not disappear. As a simplification is a capacitor with one plate as the transmitter the ground as one of the conductors and the other plate is the receiver again with ground as the common conductor.

--- End quote ---
A capacitor with the physical dimensions of "two thin wires separated by kilometers" is so close to zero that no meaningful power transfer can occur. Strange how my phone's radio still work in my pocket, and radios even in space where there is no common ground...


--- Quote ---If you think you have a better model that allows to make accurate predictions about what happens on a transmission line then please share as I will be curious to hear.  I will like to see the equations not just some story.

--- End quote ---

Sure. Wikipedia does a better job of documenting them than I ever could.

Gauss's law - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauss%27s_law
Gauss's law for magnetism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauss%27s_law_for_magnetism
Faraday's law of induction - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday%27s_law_of_induction
The Ampère–Maxwell equation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amp%C3%A8re%27s_circuital_law#Extending_the_original_law:_the_Amp%C3%A8re%E2%80%93Maxwell_equation

Between them this system of equations can explain all the little wrinkles that you are unable to.

IanB:

--- Quote from: hamster_nz on May 12, 2022, 08:39:28 pm ---
--- Quote ---If you think you have a better model that allows to make accurate predictions about what happens on a transmission line then please share as I will be curious to hear.  I will like to see the equations not just some story.

--- End quote ---

Sure. Wikipedia does a better job of documenting them than I ever could.

--- End quote ---

But you really shouldn't try. Electrodacus has a habit of saying things that are clearly wrong, muddled or confusing, and then inviting people to argue about them. It's no surprise that threads like this one tend to go on and one without end. That's the goal, to play people like a fiddle and goad them in to making more and more responses. The best solution is to simply ignore the posts and decline to respond. Electrodacus will eventually get bored and go away.

"Don't feed the trolls"

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