General > General Technical Chat
Veritasium "How Electricity Actually Works"
TimFox:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on May 18, 2022, 10:44:04 pm ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on May 18, 2022, 09:21:19 pm ---The elementary features I was taught in the first week of electronics 101 were that you can't change the voltage across a capacitor instantaneously, and you can't change the current through an inductor instantaneously.
Analysis of most simple AC and pulse circuits can start from this, and then introduce the finite resistances and time constants.
--- End quote ---
Yes that will be basic introduction to have some roule to memorize. But the reason voltage cannot change instantaneously across a capacitor is because energy will be going in the capacitor and stored.
Same thing with inductor where energy is also stored.
All energy that went in except for the amount that was lost in the process as heat will come out of this energy storage devices.
So there is no electrical enenergy that pases trough a capacitor.
Electrical energy is the integral of electrical power over time. To have power you need to have a current different from zero and you can not have current through a dielectric like plastic or air.
--- End quote ---
Actually, the point behind the circuit rule that voltage across a capacitor cannot change instantaneously is that it would require infinite current. Similarly, infinite voltage for the inductor.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 18, 2022, 10:55:28 pm ---
No, it doesn't matter. We are not interested in the how at this point, only whether it does or not. If there are electrons magically jumping the gap that's fine. It's also fine if they don't. All we need to agree on is that energy is provided on one side, consumed on the other, and there is significant clear air between.
Are you happy agreed with that?
--- End quote ---
It does matter if you want to claim that energy flows outside the wires.
This is the main point of the entire discussion.
Electrons flow in to wire but do not jump that gap and since electron flow is electrical current and electrical current multiplied with voltage is power and power integrated over time is energy it means energy flows only in wire.
PlainName:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on May 18, 2022, 11:04:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 18, 2022, 10:55:28 pm ---
No, it doesn't matter. We are not interested in the how at this point, only whether it does or not. If there are electrons magically jumping the gap that's fine. It's also fine if they don't. All we need to agree on is that energy is provided on one side, consumed on the other, and there is significant clear air between.
Are you happy agreed with that?
--- End quote ---
It does matter if you want to claim that energy flows outside the wires.
This is the main point of the entire discussion.
Electrons flow in to wire but do not jump that gap and since electron flow is electrical current and electrical current multiplied with voltage is power and power integrated over time is energy it means energy flows only in wire.
--- End quote ---
See, this is the problem. You just won't agree with a simple thing without going off on one about something else. Not even a simple fact that is indisputable - you just can't cope with saying, "Yes, OK, that is how it is".
Which of those facts are you disputing? The energy source, the energy sink, or the clear air? Presumably it's the air, but that's actually how it is! Are you going to say the video was photoshopped or something, and that your capacitor calculator (which you chose) is lying or something else?
So, is there or is there not a 1m air gap between the energy source and the energy consumer? Just a straight yes or no, please.
HuronKing:
I've been reading this discussion and I'm intrigued that pages and pages have gone by and the two words - "displacement current" haven't been mentioned (if they have I missed it!).
If one thinks currents only exist where charge flows, then one would be taking issue with Maxwells Eqs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_current
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 18, 2022, 11:37:25 pm ---
See, this is the problem. You just won't agree with a simple thing without going off on one about something else. Not even a simple fact that is indisputable - you just can't cope with saying, "Yes, OK, that is how it is".
Which of those facts are you disputing? The energy source, the energy sink, or the clear air? Presumably it's the air, but that's actually how it is! Are you going to say the video was photoshopped or something, and that your capacitor calculator (which you chose) is lying or something else?
So, is there or is there not a 1m air gap between the energy source and the energy consumer? Just a straight yes or no, please.
--- End quote ---
The problem is yours as you fail to acknowledge the real question.
Does the energy travels outside the wires ? so trough that 1m air gap.
If you answer with yes then you need to show how electrons travel from one wire to the other trough that 1m gap.
If no electrons travel through that 1m air gap then no energy travels through that gap.
So it is not me that needs to prove anything it is you that need to prove that electrons travel outside the wire in Derek's experiment.
The experiment was properly done and the results are not disputed here. What it is disputed is the wrong conclusion Derek got from those results.
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