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| Veritasium "How Electricity Actually Works" |
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| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 19, 2022, 08:58:37 am ---Thank you! Your question: I don't know. That's what we are ultimately trying to determine, but at this point all we know is that there is an energy transfer. What form that energy takes is something to be figured out. Hopefully you now agree there is energy transfer across that gap. If not, how can one side insert some and the other side use some? We are still not talking about how it transfers, only that there is a transfer. --- End quote --- You are trying to determine that as for me is very clear. The energy is not transferred across the gap it is transferred in to capacitor so charge particles accumulate on one wire / plate and equal amount of charges leave the other wire / plate. Hope you agree that no electrons jump that gap. Since current is defined as flow of electric charged particles and since there are no electrons or ions traveling through that gap there is no energy transfer through that gap. In order to charge a capacitor you will need to move charge particles (electrons) to and from plates (you move electrons to one plate and simultaneously remove electrons from the other). The electrons you remove from that other plate are there when capacitor is charged and do not come from the other side. This was the reason I chose to use the two parallel capacitors example as there you have nothing else just capacitors one it is charged and the other is not so you have two gaps in the loop and no electrons travel across any of the two gaps yet there is an electric current in the wire so electrons move from the plate of one capacitor to the plate of the other capacitor through the wire when switch is closed. On the charged capacitor there is excess of electrons on one plate and deficit of electrons on the other plate. When you connect the other identical but discharged capacitor in parallel electrons will flow through the wire from one capacitor to the other. So from the plate with excess electrons on the charged capacitor the electrons will travel to the plate with neutral charge on the discharged capacitor and at the same time electrons from the neutral charge on the discharged capacitors will move to the plate with deficit of electrons on the charged capacitor. So if you were not to look at what happens to electrons in the capacitor plates you will think that those electrons must have jumped the gap but that is not the case. In a circuit with resistance energy will be lost when part of the charge is moved from one capacitor to another. |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: hamster_nz on May 19, 2022, 09:10:56 am --- How does that energy get there, as you say energy only flows in wires and not through a capacitor? --- End quote --- See the replay #680 that I just made. No energy flows through capacitor. All electrons that move through the resistor where already on that side of the gap so electrons that were already on the capacitor plate connected to one side of the resistor will move through the resistor to the other capacitor plate also connected with wires to resistor. You will end up with a plate that has a deficit of electrons and one that has an excess of electrons. If you now open the switch and remove the battery that charge imbalance will remain as it is stored energy in the capacitors and so if you connect a wire instead of the battery and close the switch current will flow in the opposite direction powered by energy that you stored in the capacitors and so the electrons will not travel from the plate with excess electrons to the one with deficit until both plates have equal amounts of electrons so they are neutral and capacitors are discharged. |
| PlainName:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on May 19, 2022, 02:25:33 pm --- --- Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 19, 2022, 08:58:37 am ---Thank you! Your question: I don't know. That's what we are ultimately trying to determine, but at this point all we know is that there is an energy transfer. What form that energy takes is something to be figured out. Hopefully you now agree there is energy transfer across that gap. If not, how can one side insert some and the other side use some? We are still not talking about how it transfers, only that there is a transfer. --- End quote --- You are trying to determine that as for me is very clear. The energy is not transferred across the gap it is transferred in to capacitor so charge particles accumulate on one wire / plate and equal amount of charges leave the other wire / plate. --- End quote --- You're jumping ahead. Regardless of the how, energy is either transferred across or it is not. Didn't we agree that there is insertion of energy on one side and extraction of same on the other? So therefore energy MUST have been transferred. The only thing in doubt is the exact mechanism. Are you now disputing this already agreed fact (that there is a transfer of energy from PSU to resistor)? |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: HuronKing on May 19, 2022, 10:08:34 am ---Sorry be posting 3 comments in a row but enough nonsense has been perpetrated here about conduction current being the only way that energy can move from A to B in space. Here is a very simple experiment measuring displacement current as equal to the conduction current but there are NO electrons moving across any gaps whatsoever: --- End quote --- Sorry but that is an absolute crap video and the guy that made the video same as you has no idea what displacement current actually means. He can not measure a current through the gap with that coil because as he correctly mentioned in the video there are no electrons jumping the gap and the only reason he sees something is because coil is huge and the gap is super small so there is current flowing in the wires and plates very close to that hughe coil. There is no electrical energy traveling through that gap. You can not have exceptions to the rule so no electron flow through the gap no electrical current and thus no energy. That energy transferred to the plates stay there as stored energy that is why after the capacitor is charged there is no longer a current flow. Current will flow into the plates and remain there. If you move the plates closer then some extra current will flow from the battery to capacitor as the capacity has now increased and if you move the capacitor plates further apart current from capacitor will flow back in to battery as capacity decreased and so there is excess charge. By moving capacitor plates back and forth electrons will move from battery to capacitor and vice versa and since wires have some resistance energy will be wasted every time capacitor plates are moved until you can discharge the entire battery. |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: aetherist on May 19, 2022, 11:27:24 am --- 1. I see that the induced wave on the left of the capacitor was stronger than on the right of the capacitor. 2. And i suppose that if he removed the right half of the capacitor including its wire connection then he would have gotten an even stronger wave on the left part of the circuit (stronger than with the right side in place). 3. Here (1) & (2) support my new (electon) electricity. 4. The electricity on the rhs of the capacitor is an (induced) electron electricity. 5. On the lhs its an electon electricity. 6. Tween the plates there is no electricity, no current, there is a radio signal, ie em radiaton, which induces an electron electric current on the rhs. --- End quote --- That is a crap experiment and explanation. There is inductive coupling between his coil and capacitor circuit as the coil is connected to common GND through the oscilloscope that is why he will see a stronger signal when he gets closer to the positive wire than the negative one. There is nothing worth seeing in that video. |
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