General > General Technical Chat

Veritasium "How Electricity Actually Works"

<< < (162/185) > >>

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on May 22, 2022, 03:22:16 pm ---What happens to the energy when you charge a capacitor, then move the plates apart?
What about when charging an inductor?

--- End quote ---


This is not that relevant to current discussion as distance between wires in Derek experiment is not changing.

TimFox:
If you have a two-plate vacuum-dielectric capacitor, charge it up to a finite voltage, disconnect it, and leave it floating electrically, the charge remains constant when the plates move.
If, mechanically through insulating rods, you pull the plates apart, the capacitance decreases, and the stored energy  E = Q2/(2C) increases.  Therefore, you need to do work by pulling on the rods.
If, the "brake" on the rods releases, the plates will move towards each other and the rods can do work on an external mechanical system.
This is consistent with the well known effect that unlike charges (on the two plates) attract each other:  Left to their own devices, the two plates would attract and crash into each other, and discharge themselves.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: TimFox on May 22, 2022, 05:31:12 pm ---Can energy (or power) at an appropriate frequency propagate down a waveguide, inside the metal walls?

--- End quote ---

We are getting way out of subject.
Nothing moves in Derke's experiment.

We have a long transmission line that is charged during transient thus the energy seen through lamp that is in series with the charging capacitors.
Energy flows in capacitors and not through capacitors.  Energy flows through wires and resistors (that are also wires).

IanB:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on May 22, 2022, 06:05:38 pm ---We are getting way out of subject.
Nothing moves in Derke's experiment.

We have a long transmission line that is charged during transient thus the energy seen through lamp that is in series with the charging capacitors.
Energy flows in capacitors and not through capacitors.  Energy flows through wires and resistors (that are also wires).

--- End quote ---

In Derek's experiment, energy or power reached the load before any electrical signals had time to propagate down the wires. Therefore, by experiment, it is proven that energy reached the load by some other path than through the wires.

Whether you like that result or not is irrelevant. The experiment stands. You may wish to come up with your private explanation for that result, and the rest of us may wish to adopt a different explanation. That is OK, but do not expect to persuade anyone to accept your view unless it conforms with the regularly understood laws of physics.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: IanB on May 22, 2022, 06:12:54 pm ---In Derek's experiment, energy or power reached the load before any electrical signals had time to propagate down the wires. Therefore, by experiment, it is proven that energy reached the load by some other path than through the wires.

Whether you like that result or not is irrelevant. The experiment stands. You may wish to come up with your private explanation for that result, and the rest of us may wish to adopt a different explanation. That is OK, but do not expect to persuade anyone to accept your view unless it conforms with the regularly understood laws of physics.

--- End quote ---

That is the exact claim Derek made but it is wrong.
He completely ignores the transmission line energy storage properties.
I never claimed the result is incorrect and I showed the same result based on simulation.
The claim I made is that the conclusion he got that energy travels outside the wire is completely wrong.
What he is basically saying is that electrical energy travels through the 1m air gap and that is not true.

Electrical energy is electrical power integrated over time.
Electrical power is the product of electrical potential (voltage) and electrical current.
Electrical current is defined as flow of electrical charged particles (electrons in this case).

All of you seem to agree there are no electrons flying through that 1m gap from one wire to another.
So all of you agree that there is no electrical current through that 1m air gap.
Many of you mentioned the displacement current but that is a mathematical concept so the equations work not a real current.
At the time Maxwell (mathematician not physicist) has come up with the concept (fictional) displacement current nobody had any clue including Maxwell about the existence of electrons.

All energy in Derek's experiment traveled through wires and that should not be of any surprise to anyone that understands what a transmission line is.
Energy is not flowing through a capacitor but in or out of capacitor (in when charging and out when discharging).

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page

There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
Go to full version
Powered by SMFPacks Advanced Attachments Uploader Mod