Author Topic: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.  (Read 25693 times)

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Offline penfold

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #100 on: April 06, 2022, 07:52:42 am »
[...]But the reference to the effect of the gap on the speed of electrons must be a typing error. U must have meant electons. It is old (electron) electricity that can't explain (how insulation affects the old (electron) electricity speed)(or how a small gap might affect).
But in any case we can't say can't based merely on a gedanken, we would need real numbers/speeds.
So all electronic devices designed, manufactured, and tested according to old-electrons that show no discrepancies to classical theory isn't enough to go by? It all works according to the classical theory, it's all explained in a cohesive set of equations that agree even with broader observations of the universe.
Electons don't exist in classical theory, so it would be surprising if I felt a need to reference them, but yeah, could easily be a typing error or a sign of mental deficiency, it's difficult to be sure. But we sure do need some real numbers and speeds, when can we expect some quantitative predictions regarding electricity and magnetism to test your theory?
Electons were discovered/invented in Dec 2021 to better explain what we see re electricity, ie better than the drifting electrons nonsense.
If u can show me one instance where electon electricity duznt work, or works less well than drifting electrons electricity, then u win.
[...]

Why are drifting electrons nonsense? What's the rationale behind that?
Electon electricity doesn't work anywhere, there's no way of relating it to reality or quantifying your statements... that's the clever and intelligent part of a theory for which people get rewarded... actually relating it to reality... you're yet to do the difficult work.

No. Back to the idea of proof, those devices provide evidence that substantiates classical EM theory, you have no evidence to substantiate electons. The devices will always have worked and form part of a mass proof of Maxwell, none of them expose any particular weakness.
 

Offline SandyCox

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #101 on: April 06, 2022, 07:58:02 am »

But i like your idea that we should abandon all electric devices designed before my new (electon) electricity was discovered in Dec 2021.……..
Let's start with you abandoning your electronic devices and Internet connection.
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #102 on: April 06, 2022, 08:25:04 am »
Fun fact: Maxwell doesn't disprove the "aether". In fact his original equations were developed based on the "Luminiferous aether" model that was the working theory about light propagation in his days. But no experimental proof came forward to substantiate this theory and experimental results could not be explained. Then Einstein came along and his Special Theory of Relativity explained all experimental results without needing to refer to the "aether" at all. The consensus was that the "aether" was not a useful concept to cling to.
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Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #103 on: April 06, 2022, 09:32:17 am »
Fun fact: Maxwell doesn't disprove the "aether". In fact his original equations were developed based on the "Luminiferous aether" model that was the working theory about light propagation in his days. But no experimental proof came forward to substantiate this theory and experimental results could not be explained. Then Einstein came along and his Special Theory of Relativity explained all experimental results without needing to refer to the "aether" at all. The consensus was that the "aether" was not a useful concept to cling to.
http://wiki.naturalphilosophy.org/index.php?title=G_O_Mueller
Mueller is a good place to start.
 

Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #104 on: April 06, 2022, 09:38:35 am »
[...]But the reference to the effect of the gap on the speed of electrons must be a typing error. U must have meant electons. It is old (electron) electricity that can't explain (how insulation affects the old (electron) electricity speed)(or how a small gap might affect).
But in any case we can't say can't based merely on a gedanken, we would need real numbers/speeds.
So all electronic devices designed, manufactured, and tested according to old-electrons that show no discrepancies to classical theory isn't enough to go by? It all works according to the classical theory, it's all explained in a cohesive set of equations that agree even with broader observations of the universe.
Electons don't exist in classical theory, so it would be surprising if I felt a need to reference them, but yeah, could easily be a typing error or a sign of mental deficiency, it's difficult to be sure. But we sure do need some real numbers and speeds, when can we expect some quantitative predictions regarding electricity and magnetism to test your theory?
Electons were discovered/invented in Dec 2021 to better explain what we see re electricity, ie better than the drifting electrons nonsense.
If u can show me one instance where electon electricity duznt work, or works less well than drifting electrons electricity, then u win.[...]
Why are drifting electrons nonsense? What's the rationale behind that?
Electon electricity doesn't work anywhere, there's no way of relating it to reality or quantifying your statements... that's the clever and intelligent part of a theory for which people get rewarded... actually relating it to reality... you're yet to do the difficult work.

No. Back to the idea of proof, those devices provide evidence that substantiates classical EM theory, you have no evidence to substantiate electons. The devices will always have worked and form part of a mass proof of Maxwell, none of them expose any particular weakness.
We have geniuses that light the way.
We have thems that can understand & appreciate genius.
We have thems that dont understand.
We have thems that cant understand but are sure that the geniuses are wrong.

Einstein aint one of the geniuses.
My elektons are brilliant. I might have to learn some Swedish.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 06:15:29 am by aetherist »
 

Offline penfold

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #105 on: April 06, 2022, 09:59:11 am »
Fun fact: Maxwell doesn't disprove the "aether". In fact his original equations were developed based on the "Luminiferous aether" model that was the working theory about light propagation in his days. But no experimental proof came forward to substantiate this theory and experimental results could not be explained. Then Einstein came along and his Special Theory of Relativity explained all experimental results without needing to refer to the "aether" at all. The consensus was that the "aether" was not a useful concept to cling to.

There have been a fair number of theories and approaches to aether over the years. Aether is just the name of the collection of properties that have been assigned to "vacuum", so really, there are quite a few different aethers, if anything, Maxwell proves the existence of one as the equations were designed and developed around the idea of almost solid-like properties. As measurements and observations got more numerous and refined, one aether with those same Maxwellian properties would produce very different results in observations where relativity becomes more relevant. There's a bit of noise (accidental pun) in the quantum fields about the hypothesis of an aether... but it's a different aether again.

But anyway, scientific laws are just tools for a job, observations of nature are where the truth is, and it's the observations that the laws describe, not nature.
 

Offline SandyCox

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #106 on: April 06, 2022, 10:15:40 am »
But anyway, scientific laws are just tools for a job, observations of nature are where the truth is, and it's the observations that the laws describe, not nature.
Beautiful!

Just like a natural language isn't its grammatical rules. The rules try to capture the essence of the language.
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #107 on: April 06, 2022, 10:30:07 am »
My electons are brilliant. I might have to learn some Swedish.

Well, you have neither discovered nor invented anything. You postulated the existence of something. There is no proof, and, as far as I can see, not even a coherent piece of paper that describes what you claim to have found. How can anyone apply scientific rigor to your theory when all you can show is some forum posts that only demonstrate how you cannot read physics textbooks? I think you can put off learning Swedish for a bit.
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Offline penfold

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #108 on: April 06, 2022, 10:30:51 am »
[...]
We have geniuses that light the way.
[...]

Well, that's certainly the loosest definition of genius I've ever heard, your level of inteligence is certainly similar to that of a candle tht similarly lights the way, that I won't deny.

Now, talking of candles, why doesn't aether-wind blow candles out? Photons carry momentum and interract with a static aether, a moving aether would either require that photons have no interraction with aether or that candles should at the very least burn with a significant deflection in the flame.
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #109 on: April 06, 2022, 11:14:20 am »
Fun fact: Maxwell doesn't disprove the "aether". In fact his original equations were developed based on the "Luminiferous aether" model that was the working theory about light propagation in his days. But no experimental proof came forward to substantiate this theory and experimental results could not be explained. Then Einstein came along and his Special Theory of Relativity explained all experimental results without needing to refer to the "aether" at all. The consensus was that the "aether" was not a useful concept to cling to.
http://wiki.naturalphilosophy.org/index.php?title=G_O_Mueller
Mueller is a good place to start.

Quote
Die Physiker, die anderen Naturwissenschaftler und die Herren über die Medien haben
seit 1922 eine große geheime Aktionsgemeinschaft gegen die Öffentlichkeit in Deutschland
geschaffen, ein Zensur- und Boykott-Kartell zur Verhinderung des Bekanntwerdens auch
nur der Existenz irgendeiner Kritik der Speziellen Relativitätstheorie.

:palm:
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Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #110 on: April 06, 2022, 12:39:40 pm »
Fun fact: Maxwell doesn't disprove the "aether". In fact his original equations were developed based on the "Luminiferous aether" model that was the working theory about light propagation in his days. But no experimental proof came forward to substantiate this theory and experimental results could not be explained. Then Einstein came along and his Special Theory of Relativity explained all experimental results without needing to refer to the "aether" at all. The consensus was that the "aether" was not a useful concept to cling to.
http://wiki.naturalphilosophy.org/index.php?title=G_O_Mueller
Mueller is a good place to start.
Quote
Die Physiker, die anderen Naturwissenschaftler und die Herren über die Medien haben
seit 1922 eine große geheime Aktionsgemeinschaft gegen die Öffentlichkeit in Deutschland
geschaffen, ein Zensur- und Boykott-Kartell zur Verhinderung des Bekanntwerdens auch
nur der Existenz irgendeiner Kritik der Speziellen Relativitätstheorie.

:palm:
These links should be ok --- English...


https://www.kritik-relativitaetstheorie.de/Anhaenge/Kapitel2-englisch.pdf
Chapter 2 Catalogue of Errors for Both Theories of Relativity from the documentation of G.O. Mueller


https://www.ekkehard-friebe.de/95yearsrelativity.pdf
95 Years of Criticism of the Special Theory of Relativity (1908-2003) The G. O. Mueller Research Project [GOM-Project Relativity] Description of a German Research Project of inte


https://www.gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/Communications-Relativity%20Theory/Download/4990
 

Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #111 on: April 06, 2022, 12:47:19 pm »
[...]We have geniuses that light the way.[...]
Well, that's certainly the loosest definition of genius I've ever heard, your level of inteligence is certainly similar to that of a candle tht similarly lights the way, that I won't deny.

Now, talking of candles, why doesn't aether-wind blow candles out? Photons carry momentum and interract with a static aether, a moving aether would either require that photons have no interraction with aether or that candles should at the very least burn with a significant deflection in the flame.
Good points. The aether can be seen to interact with candle flames.
Candle flames move up, away from Earth. That is koz the aetherwind acceleration is down, ie giving a downwards gravity. The flames being less dense than cold air.
The aetherwind affects the photons from the flames. The photons have a speed of c+V or c-V where V is the aetherwind, tailwind or headwind.
If a sidewind then the photons will crab, ie sidle.
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #112 on: April 06, 2022, 12:54:54 pm »
Quote
Die Physiker, die anderen Naturwissenschaftler und die Herren über die Medien haben
seit 1922 eine große geheime Aktionsgemeinschaft gegen die Öffentlichkeit in Deutschland
geschaffen, ein Zensur- und Boykott-Kartell zur Verhinderung des Bekanntwerdens auch
nur der Existenz irgendeiner Kritik der Speziellen Relativitätstheorie.

:palm:
These links should be ok --- English...
I can understand German just fine. After all it's my native language.
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #113 on: April 06, 2022, 02:46:18 pm »
Quote
Candle flames move up, away from Earth. That is koz the aetherwind acceleration is down, ie giving a downwards gravity.

So if here in the UK the aetherwind is blowing down, in Australia it must be blowing up and candle flames head downwards?

The alternative, that the aetherwind is blowing towards the center of the Earth regardless of where you stand, seems unlikely since then there would be significant aetherpressuretm building up until it must... what? Explode? Just disappear?
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #114 on: April 06, 2022, 02:47:06 pm »
Humbug and Claptrap. It's all caused by wakalixies. They are responsible for everything.
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 
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Offline thinkfat

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #115 on: April 06, 2022, 04:00:43 pm »
Quote
Candle flames move up, away from Earth. That is koz the aetherwind acceleration is down, ie giving a downwards gravity.

So if here in the UK the aetherwind is blowing down, in Australia it must be blowing up and candle flames head downwards?

Not if the earth is flat...
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 

Offline HuronKing

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #116 on: April 06, 2022, 04:35:58 pm »
Hooh boy that G.O. Muller is something else... and it's rather gross to see Lenard included in their list of 'totally not anti-Semitic critics of relativity.'

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-2-pro-nazi-nobelists-attacked-einstein-s-jewish-science-excerpt1/

Methinks they doth protest too much.

PS
I'm not suggesting that all or even most critics of relativity are anti-Semitic and I've made no such suggestions in the many comments I've made so far (relativity stands just fine on its own on purely physical grounds). Most critics just plain don't understand relativity, after all, they say stupid stuff like:
Quote
I don’t know what STR predicts re fast moving electrons.

But, since G.O. Muller has now been submitted here, it's worth pointing out directly that yes - much historic criticism of relativity in Germany IS founded on anti-Semitism and the constant accusations of a global 'Einsteinist but we totally don't mean Jewish conspiracy' is worrisome.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 07:43:40 pm by HuronKing »
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #117 on: April 06, 2022, 07:21:23 pm »
Candle flames move up, away from Earth. That is koz the aetherwind acceleration is down, ie giving a downwards gravity.

Of course. This one is priceless.
 
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Offline HuronKing

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #118 on: April 06, 2022, 08:56:19 pm »
I had to dig a bit more into the 100 Authors Against Einstein and I was not disappointed.

It appears most of them were not even competent in understanding the theory and many of them just whinged about religious/philosophical objections (not scientific):
https://skepticalinquirer.org/2020/11/100-authors-against-einstein-a-look-in-the-rearview-mirror/

And this is why so much of their counter-material was rejected for publication.
https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.961.1404&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Quote
I can make neither head nor tail of the articles of Dr. Reuterdahl (...) the language which he uses makes no connection with my own equipment of scientific concepts, and I see no reason for supposing that it conceals any important scientific truth.
(Dr. Edwin Kemble to Heidenreich, 29 February 1932, copy, RP 4-24)

Overall while I don't have Wazeck's full book, just the paper, it gives me a sense of her opinion and I personally think she is far too compassionate to the anti-scientific (sometimes anti-Semitic) crowd that opposed relativity. Steinmetz knew who he was dealing with - he called them cowardly hacks.
 

Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #119 on: April 06, 2022, 09:21:39 pm »
Quote
Candle flames move up, away from Earth. That is koz the aetherwind acceleration is down, ie giving a downwards gravity.
So if here in the UK the aetherwind is blowing down, in Australia it must be blowing up and candle flames head downwards?

The alternative, that the aetherwind is blowing towards the center of the Earth regardless of where you stand, seems unlikely since then there would be significant aetherpressuretm building up until it must... what? Explode? Just disappear?
I did say that gravity is due to the acceleration of the aetherwind. So, i wondered why u made a strawman that i said that aetherwind caused gravity. But on reading my last comment i do see that i added the throw-away line that aetherwind can have  a velocity of c+V or c-V, & that must have confused u. Teacher's mistake-1.

If the aetherwind is steady then there is no acceleration of the aetherwind & zero pressure & zero gravity. Objects retain their uniform velocity.
The aetherwind in Australia is indeed blowing down, but the acceleration of the aetherwind is towards the center of the Earth everywhere on Earth. Hence gravity is down, everywhere on Earth.  Acceleration causes an aether pressure.

The inflow streamlines that i alluded to are streamlines of aether acceleration, not streamlines of velocity or speed. The streamlines represent the acceleration field, not the velocity field. Teacher's mistake-2.
Anyhow, the streamlines converge towards the center of Earth, in 3 dimensions, hence the acceleration has a 1/RR relationship, which accords with the standard equation for gravitational attraction tween masses.

Gravity causes the candle flame to go upwards, hence we do indeed feel & see the action of the aether (crudely put), which was my answer to that question. Anything & everything to do with gravity fits, its all a feeling & seeing of the action of the aether.

Penfold asked, what interaction is there tween flame & aether, & does aether cause a deflection of the flame.
Aether does indeed cause a deflection, it causes the flame to go up.
I wonder whether there has been a flame on spacelab?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 09:27:38 pm by aetherist »
 

Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #120 on: April 06, 2022, 09:33:33 pm »
Hooh boy that G.O. Muller is something else... and it's rather gross to see Lenard included in their list of 'totally not anti-Semitic critics of relativity.'

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-2-pro-nazi-nobelists-attacked-einstein-s-jewish-science-excerpt1/

Methinks they doth protest too much.

PS
I'm not suggesting that all or even most critics of relativity are anti-Semitic and I've made no such suggestions in the many comments I've made so far (relativity stands just fine on its own on purely physical grounds). Most critics just plain don't understand relativity, after all, they say stupid stuff like:
Quote
I don’t know what STR predicts re fast moving electrons.
But, since G.O. Muller has now been submitted here, it's worth pointing out directly that yes - much historic criticism of relativity in Germany IS founded on anti-Semitism and the constant accusations of a global 'Einsteinist but we totally don't mean Jewish conspiracy' is worrisome.
Is there anything specific in what Mueller & Lenard said that is wrong, re their criticisms of STR & GTR?
Me myself i don’t agree with every criticism in Mueller's book. He has hundreds.
Some criticisms are fatal to STR or GTR, some are important but not fatal. My above question refers to any fatal criticism.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #121 on: April 06, 2022, 09:40:52 pm »
Quote
The inflow streamlines that i alluded to are streamlines of aether acceleration, not streamlines of velocity or speed.

How does acceleration towards a central point from every point on a sphere not increase something in the middle? It has to go somewhere, doesn'tduznt it? So there must presumably be streamlines of deceleration to match. Somewhere.

And... how can you have acceleration without a change in velocity or speed?
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #122 on: April 06, 2022, 09:41:41 pm »
"Overall while I don't have Wazeck's full book, just the paper, it gives me a sense of her opinion and I personally think she is far too compassionate to the anti-scientific (sometimes anti-Semitic) crowd that opposed relativity. Steinmetz knew who he was dealing with - he called them cowardly hacks."

Before the exodus of politically-incorrect and ethnically-unwanted scientists from Germany in the 1930s, Steinmetz was a refugee from Germany to the US in 1889 (first to Switzerland in 1888) due to political activity at the University of Breslau (and some personal problems), and (among many other publications) presented a seminal paper on complex algebra for AC in 1893 (at a congress held in conjunction with the Chicago World's Columbian Exposition), and a monograph on relativity theory in 1923.

I encountered a good short biographical sketch ("Proteus") near the end of the first section ("The 42nd Parallel") of John Dos Passos' very thick book "USA".  The sketch ended "Steinmetz was the most valuable piece of apparatus General Electric had until he wore out and died."  I recommend that long novel to technically-minded readers:  the text includes conflicts between engineers and capitalists.
 
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Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #123 on: April 06, 2022, 09:42:25 pm »
I had to dig a bit more into the 100 Authors Against Einstein and I was not disappointed.

It appears most of them were not even competent in understanding the theory and many of them just whinged about religious/philosophical objections (not scientific):
https://skepticalinquirer.org/2020/11/100-authors-against-einstein-a-look-in-the-rearview-mirror/

And this is why so much of their counter-material was rejected for publication.
https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.961.1404&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Quote
I can make neither head nor tail of the articles of Dr. Reuterdahl (...) the language which he uses makes no connection with my own equipment of scientific concepts, and I see no reason for supposing that it conceals any important scientific truth.
(Dr. Edwin Kemble to Heidenreich, 29 February 1932, copy, RP 4-24)

Overall while I don't have Wazeck's full book, just the paper, it gives me a sense of her opinion and I personally think she is far too compassionate to the anti-scientific (sometimes anti-Semitic) crowd that opposed relativity. Steinmetz knew who he was dealing with - he called them cowardly hacks.
I will try to read thems papers. I might be able to refer to some others that i have.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #124 on: April 06, 2022, 09:43:47 pm »
Quote
I wonder whether there has been a flame on spacelab?

 


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