Author Topic: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.  (Read 25704 times)

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Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #75 on: April 04, 2022, 09:41:44 pm »
STR and GTR (to use your ugly abbreviations) are not nonsense--they are logically internally compatible theories.
Your attempts to cite evidence that they are not physically correct are not convincing.
As one of many examples, my former employer manufactured devices that accelerated electrons to a kinetic energy between 1 and 25 MeV. which is far above the electron rest mass of 0.511 MeV/c2, and they behaved exactly how the Special Theory of Relativity predicts.
I am half ok with electrons being accelerated to almost  c ------  i prefer that the max speed is about  0.71c.
I don’t know what STR predicts re fast moving electrons.
I don’t like the E=mcc stuff. But i suppose that this aint a part of STR.
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #76 on: April 04, 2022, 09:44:32 pm »
Perhaps you should read a standard textbook about what Special Relativity predicts about real situations before you claim that it is nonsense, or less polite words that have no place in a technical discussion.
 

Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #77 on: April 04, 2022, 09:46:21 pm »
So, the demonstrated fact that the electron accelerators I mentioned behave according to Einstein's 1905 paper in Annalen der Physik "On the electrodynamics of moving bodies" (English title) is due to other people, including Frau Einstein and Mr Minkowski?  Does that change physical reality?
I don’t know what behaviour that is. But i would ask does that behaviour accord with other relativity theorys, eg Voigt, Cohn (after which Einstein name her paper), Poincare, Lorentz, Larmor
 

Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #78 on: April 04, 2022, 09:55:11 pm »
https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.205.4405&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Is magnetic field due to an electric current a relativistic effect? Oleg D Jefimenko

Abstract. Several authors have asserted that the magnetic field due to an electric current is a relativistic effect. This assertion is based on the fact that if one assumes that the interaction between electric charges is entirely due to the electric field, then the relativistic force transformation equations make it imperative that a second field—the magnetic field—is present when the charges are moving. However, as is shown in this paper, if one assumes that the interaction between moving electric charges is entirely due to the magnetic field, then the same relativistic force transformation equations make it imperative that a second field—this time the electric field—is also present. Therefore, since it is impossible to interpret both the electric and the magnetic field as relativistic effects, one must conclude that neither field is a relativistic effect. The true meaning of the calculations demonstrating the alleged relativistic nature of the magnetic field and of the calculations presented in this paper is, therefore, that the idea of a single force field, be it magnetic or electric, is incompatible with the relativity theory.

 

Offline penfold

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #79 on: April 04, 2022, 09:59:39 pm »
[...]
Old (electron) electricity fails to explain how electricity propagates at the speed of light c/1 along a wire. Bearing in mind that the speed of em radiation in Cu is 10 m/s DC, & less if AC.
And, old (electron) electricity fails to explain how drifting electrons inside a wire know that the wire has an insulation coating, ie the drifting electrons decide to propagate the electricity at 2c/3 instead of c/1.

You're going to need to produce formal proof that classical theory doesn't explain the speed of electricity along a wire... because it does... it travels at a rate that is dependent on the EM properties of the wire and surroundings... is a non-issue for classical theory.
The speed of EM fields inside a wire isn't important because the fields can travel externally to the wire and the electrons inside respond.
Old electricity explains the propagation speed of the "velocity wavefront" or "current density wavefront" that exists in response to the external fields. The presence of insulation slows the external fields to an extent that depends on their thickness and characteristics, some fields travel external to the insulation. Your theory does not explain how an air gap between conductor and insulation can also affect the speed of electrons.

[...]
So that is why i discovered my new (electon) electricity, ie electricity is in the photons hugging the wire.
This must rate as the best scientific discovery of 2021. And more.

It's neither scientific nor a discovery.
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #80 on: April 04, 2022, 10:04:07 pm »
This reminded me of a very bad time in the history of physics, discussed in this long article  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-2-pro-nazi-nobelists-attacked-einstein-s-jewish-science-excerpt1/
Note 1 at the end of the article discusses the early history of plagiarism against Einstein. 
What does this sentence mean:  "(after which Einstein name her paper)" ?

Re: "I don’t know what behaviour that is."
Modern electron accelerators ("linear accelerators") are discussed here:  https://web.stanford.edu/~rlbyer/PDF_AllPubs/2005/407.pdf
This article concentrates on very high energy accelerators, but the relativistic effects are already important at a few MeV.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2022, 10:05:38 pm by TimFox »
 
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Offline HuronKing

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #81 on: April 04, 2022, 11:10:28 pm »
Cathode-ray-tube televisions are particle accelerators. They wouldn't work properly without special relativity.

Jefimenko's papers are fun (because it seems he's mostly bitching about pedagogy) but he points the way to Jackson who makes it clear what Purcell and others are saying:
https://archive.org/details/ClassicalElectrodynamics2nd/page/n605/mode/2up

I kind of laughed when Jackson wrote,
"But what if there had been a magnetic field B' in K'?"

So to be clear, Jackson, cited by Jefimenko, isn't taking issue with the relativistic transformation of the E-field from moving charges causing the appearance of B-field effects in the other reference frame, he just wants you to know that it can't be a complete description of the B-field in other reference frame unless you say so...

Of course the relativistic transformation of the E-field is not a complete description of the B-field in the other reference frame if that other reference frame already had a B-field from some other source... you'd have to account for that too. Duh? And Jackson delves into this further in homework problem 12.3 (where he calls this a pseudomagnetic force).

And even, to his credit, the Science Asylum video that says the magnetic force does not exist specifically addresses the problem Jefimenko was mad about - that one could argue the Electric Force does not exist either. And that's exactly it - they're not independent entities. They're both representations of the total electromagnetic field.

And this is what makes aetherists cowardly hacks as Steinmetz warned us about. An aetherist can spend weeks on an EE forum getting personalized counseling from numerous experts after having been banned from multiple physics forums, yet still have no idea what anyone is talking about regarding EM fields

Exemplified by saying stupid shit like
Quote
I don’t know what STR predicts re fast moving electrons.

My God, that's STR 101...
« Last Edit: April 04, 2022, 11:16:03 pm by HuronKing »
 

Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2022, 11:54:15 pm »
[...]Old (electron) electricity fails to explain how electricity propagates at the speed of light c/1 along a wire. Bearing in mind that the speed of em radiation in Cu is 10 m/s DC, & less if AC.
And, old (electron) electricity fails to explain how drifting electrons inside a wire know that the wire has an insulation coating, ie the drifting electrons decide to propagate the electricity at 2c/3 instead of c/1.
You're going to need to produce formal proof that classical theory doesn't explain the speed of electricity along a wire... because it does... it travels at a rate that is dependent on the EM properties of the wire and surroundings... is a non-issue for classical theory.
The speed of EM fields inside a wire isn't important because the fields can travel externally to the wire and the electrons inside respond.
Old electricity explains the propagation speed of the "velocity wavefront" or "current density wavefront" that exists in response to the external fields. The presence of insulation slows the external fields to an extent that depends on their thickness and characteristics, some fields travel external to the insulation. Your theory does not explain how an air gap between conductor and insulation can also affect the speed of electrons.
[...]So that is why i discovered my new (electon) electricity, ie electricity is in the photons hugging the wire.
This must rate as the best scientific discovery of 2021. And more.
It's neither scientific nor a discovery.
Einstein was correct that light slows when near mass. This is why my elektons hug a wire, the nearside being slowed moreso than the farside (plus charge attraction). But this raises a problem for my elektons, if they are slowed then elekticity can't ever propagate at the speed of light, koz elektons must propagate a little slower than the speed of light. If its only say 1% slower then praps its ok. After all most of the work done with electricity is for insulated wires, or at least wires that have corroded on the outside.

But the question re the effect of an air gap tween wire & insulation is interesting. The speed of the elektons would be the speed of light in air. Minus some km/s due to the slowing of the nearness of mass of the Cu. Minus some km/s due to the nearness of the mass of the insulation outside the gap. I think that the speed of elekticity along a wire with an air gap tween the wire & insulation would be very little different to the speed of elekticity with zero insulation.

But the reference to the effect of the gap on the speed of electrons must be a typing error. U must have meant elektons. It is old (electron) electricity that can't explain (how insulation affects the old (electron) electricity speed)(or how a small gap might affect).
But in any case we can't say can't based merely on a gedanken, we would need real numbers/speeds.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 06:19:05 am by aetherist »
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2022, 11:59:50 pm »
Einstein was correct that light slows when near mass.

I don't think so. Mass causes light to follow a curved path, but it does not slow down.
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #84 on: April 05, 2022, 12:11:55 am »
This reminded me of a very bad time in the history of physics, discussed in this long article  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-2-pro-nazi-nobelists-attacked-einstein-s-jewish-science-excerpt1/
Note 1 at the end of the article discusses the early history of plagiarism against Einstein. 
What does this sentence mean:  "(after which Einstein name her paper)" ?

Re: "I don’t know what behaviour that is."
Modern electron accelerators ("linear accelerators") are discussed here:  https://web.stanford.edu/~rlbyer/PDF_AllPubs/2005/407.pdf
This article concentrates on very high energy accelerators, but the relativistic effects are already important at a few MeV.
Mrs Einstein worked for Lenard, & stole his ideas.

So, u are saying that STR explains E=mcc or m=e/cc.  The derivation of E=mcc was flawed, it was a circular proof/derivation (as shown by Ives & Co).
Anyhow, aether theory says that  c is a speed limit (me myself i reckon that the limit is about 0.7c).
However, aether theory duznt say that the mass of an electron increases with speed. But it duznt rule it out either.
If indeed mass duz increase with speed then it will need a proper explanation, not some silly STR or spacetime explanation.
I suspect that the application of gamma to mass to give a very large mass as the speed approaches the speed of light is a circular theory. One outcome of this is that we have lots of new particles that don’t really exist.
 

Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #85 on: April 05, 2022, 12:24:18 am »
Einstein was correct that light slows when near mass.
I don't think so. Mass causes light to follow a curved path, but it does not slow down.
Its difficult to know what Einstein meant some of the time, ie re orbits being real, or just a trick of the warping of spacetime.
I think that Einstein would say that the light goes straight, but that spacetime warps or bends or somesuch.

Anyhow,  Shapiro proved that light does indeed slow when passing the Sun (now called Shapiro Delay).
I rate this as being Einstein's only real contribution to science, albeit a lucky outcome (his reasoning was faulty)(me myself i came up with the correct explanation).
But, if u are correct, then Shapiro Delay falsifies GTR.

Which leads us to the proper explanation of why the bending of light passing the Sun is twice the Newtonian bending.
But anyhow Einstein helped me to come up with my new (elekton) electricity. His slowing of light is what makes the elekton hug the wire (together with charge attraction).
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 06:20:24 am by aetherist »
 

Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #86 on: April 05, 2022, 12:49:08 am »
Cathode-ray-tube televisions are particle accelerators. They wouldn't work properly without special relativity.

Jefimenko's papers are fun (because it seems he's mostly bitching about pedagogy) but he points the way to Jackson who makes it clear what Purcell and others are saying:
https://archive.org/details/ClassicalElectrodynamics2nd/page/n605/mode/2up

I kind of laughed when Jackson wrote,
"But what if there had been a magnetic field B' in K'?"

So to be clear, Jackson, cited by Jefimenko, isn't taking issue with the relativistic transformation of the E-field from moving charges causing the appearance of B-field effects in the other reference frame, he just wants you to know that it can't be a complete description of the B-field in other reference frame unless you say so...

Of course the relativistic transformation of the E-field is not a complete description of the B-field in the other reference frame if that other reference frame already had a B-field from some other source... you'd have to account for that too. Duh? And Jackson delves into this further in homework problem 12.3 (where he calls this a pseudomagnetic force).

And even, to his credit, the Science Asylum video that says the magnetic force does not exist specifically addresses the problem Jefimenko was mad about - that one could argue the Electric Force does not exist either. And that's exactly it - they're not independent entities. They're both representations of the total electromagnetic field.

And this is what makes aetherists cowardly hacks as Steinmetz warned us about. An aetherist can spend weeks on an EE forum getting personalized counseling from numerous experts after having been banned from multiple physics forums, yet still have no idea what anyone is talking about regarding EM fields

Exemplified by saying stupid shit like
Quote
I don’t know what STR predicts re fast moving electrons.
My God, that's STR 101...
CRTs don’t need relativity. GPS duznt need relativity.

One problem with STR explaining mmf, is that after it explains the mmf, there is still nearly 100% of the mmf (lets call it B') sitting there in parallel with the non-mmf. But, there is no way that B' can contribute any mmf (according to STR).
What a disaster.

E=mcc is not a part of STR. STR duznt even lead to E=mcc.

If indeed mass duz increase with speed then it will need a proper explanation, not some silly STR or spacetime explanation.
Aether theory says that mass is the property of photons & elementary particles (eg electrons)(confined photons)(everything is photons)(everything has mass) whereby they annihilate aether, & aether flows in to replace the lost aether, the acceleration of the inflow whereby the streamlines converge in 3 dimensions giving us the well known 1/RR relationship. 
Hence, if mass increases with speed (which aether theory duz not rule out) then that would require that speed increases the rate of annihilation.
But i doubt that (real) mass increases with speed. Apparent (non-real) mass might increase.
But for sure spacetime (ticking dilation)(length contraction) has zero to do with mass.
Aether theory prefers that there is only one real mass, in effect the rest mass, & that this never changes.
But, if it duz change with speed, then aether theory will have to accept that, but it would then have to try to come up with an explanation.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2022, 01:15:45 am by aetherist »
 

Offline HuronKing

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #87 on: April 05, 2022, 01:32:00 am »
CRTs don’t need relativity. GPS duznt need relativity.

How do you know? You just said you don't know what happens when an electron goes very fast, or at least, what STR says about it.

You ignored this in the other thread. You'll ignore it again, I'm sure.

Example 5.4:
https://openstax.org/books/university-physics-volume-3/pages/5-3-time-dilation

Quote
One problem with STR explaining mmf, is that after it explains the mmf, there is still nearly 100% of the mmf (lets call it B') sitting there in parallel with the non-mmf. But, there is no way that B' can contribute any mmf (according to STR).
What a disaster.

E=mcc is not a part of STR. STR duznt even lead to E=mcc.

Every new post you make just shows how completely unhinged you are from reality.
 

Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #88 on: April 05, 2022, 02:13:48 am »
CRTs don’t need relativity. GPS duznt need relativity.
How do you know? You just said you don't know what happens when an electron goes very fast, or at least, what STR says about it.

You ignored this in the other thread. You'll ignore it again, I'm sure.

Example 5.4:
https://openstax.org/books/university-physics-volume-3/pages/5-3-time-dilation
Quote
One problem with STR explaining mmf, is that after it explains the mmf, there is still nearly 100% of the mmf (lets call it B') sitting there in parallel with the non-mmf. But, there is no way that B' can contribute any mmf (according to STR).
What a disaster.

E=mcc is not a part of STR. STR duznt even lead to E=mcc.
Every new post you make just shows how completely unhinged you are from reality.
CRT duznt need relativity koz the designers don’t need relativity. We don’t know what electricity is, but there are a lot of electric designers out there getting paid good money.

Time dilation in STR is due to the silly gedanken way of synchronising clocks using light & mirrors. If Einstein synchronised his gedanken clocks by using sensible slow transport then silly STR & silly time dilation would not have been needed.

However, what we do have is ticking dilation, where all clocks of all kinds are affected in varying degrees by speed (ie the speed of the aetherwind), & also in varying degrees by the nearness of mass.

Anyhow, i am still waiting for u to explain to me how STR can help B' to make an mmf (ie having already used STR to make an mmf from B). No hurry.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2022, 02:22:39 am by aetherist »
 

Offline YurkshireLad

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #89 on: April 05, 2022, 02:18:49 am »
 :popcorn:
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #90 on: April 05, 2022, 02:25:20 am »
In the relativistic electron accelerators made by my former employer, I assure you that the electrons go faster than 0.707 c.
The timing with respect to the microwave-frequency excitation of the cavities wouldn't work at the frequency and dimensions where they do, in fact, work quite well.
 

Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #91 on: April 05, 2022, 02:52:44 am »
In the relativistic electron accelerators made by my former employer, I assure you that the electrons go faster than 0.707 c.
The timing with respect to the microwave-frequency excitation of the cavities wouldn't work at the frequency and dimensions where they do, in fact, work quite well.
Yes. That is a problem for my theory. And i would be surprised if standard science gets the measurement of the speeds wrong.
If an electron can never attain  c, then an orbiting elektron can't orbit once the atom nears  c.
Hence i say that the atom can never attain say 0.71c, so that the orbital elektron can still orbit with some kind of speed, say c/100. No that’s not a good gedanken, c/100 might demand a limit of 0.99c for the atom. An orbital speed of  nearly c would demand a max atomic speed of 0.71c.
Anyhow, my thinking here arises from the idea that an atom flattens to a 2-dimensional disc if it gets to a speed of c.
I say that if the atom has a speed of c plus the elektrons have a speed of c then that demands a total speed of 1.41c, hence i invoke a lower speed limit for an atom, such that the total speed for the elektron duznt have to reach 1c.

But all of that supposes that the em forces in an atom propagate at c. Praps they propagate at more than c, in the nearfield so to speak. Still thinking.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 06:22:08 am by aetherist »
 

Offline hamster_nz

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #92 on: April 05, 2022, 03:08:34 am »
GPS duznt need relativity.
Need? Could you still make GPS system if there were not relativistic effects? Sure.

But these effects are there, and you need to needs to make allowances for it. This is due to the difference of the passing of time in a semi-synchronous orbit compared to where the receiver is, and for the journey between the two. The calculations needed for approximating the required correction can be found on page 88 of https://www.gps.gov/technical/icwg/IS-GPS-200D.pdf.

 :bullshit:



Gaze not into the abyss, lest you become recognized as an abyss domain expert, and they expect you keep gazing into the damn thing.
 
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Offline Circlotron

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #93 on: April 05, 2022, 03:27:53 am »
This thread give me flashbacks to usenet back in the day, reading Archimedes Plutonium and his Plutonium Atom Totality theory.

https://www.quora.com/What-effect-did-Archimedes-Plutonium-and-his-Plutonium-Atom-Totality-theory-have-upon-your-view-of-the-world
 

Offline HuronKing

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #94 on: April 05, 2022, 03:41:44 am »

CRT duznt need relativity koz the designers don’t need relativity.

I've shown you how it gets used. You can stick your fingers in your ears and go 'lalalala no it doesn't.' And Steinmetz laughs at you.

Quote
Anyhow, i am still waiting for u to explain to me how STR can help B' to make an mmf (ie having already used STR to make an mmf from B). No hurry.

Your entire understanding of the phenomena is shoddy 'krapp' so you wouldn't even understand any such answer (if the foundation of your question wasn't even on already super faulty premises). You can't even read the equations.

Let's not forget how little you admit to knowing,
Quote
I don’t know what STR predicts re fast moving electrons.

Translation:
"Herp dee derp, I don't even know the first thing about relativity."

And you want to get all worked up about relativistic transformations of the E-field in current carrying wires - and you don't even know what a high school AP physics student knows about electrons and special relativity.

This material is too advanced for you. Go back to secondary school.  :scared:

« Last Edit: April 05, 2022, 04:16:22 am by HuronKing »
 
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Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #95 on: April 05, 2022, 10:05:48 am »
GPS duznt need relativity.
Need? Could you still make GPS system if there were not relativistic effects? Sure.

But these effects are there, and you need to needs to make allowances for it. This is due to the difference of the passing of time in a semi-synchronous orbit compared to where the receiver is, and for the journey between the two. The calculations needed for approximating the required correction can be found on page 88 of https://www.gps.gov/technical/icwg/IS-GPS-200D.pdf.

 :bullshit:
(1) GPS duznt use any STR or GTR corrections.
(2) The ticking of the clocks are certainly affected by speed & elevation & location, in relativistic ways.
(3) There is no difference of the passing of time, koz time duznt exist, there is no such thing as time dilation.
(4) Yes, there is a need to make allowances for the differences in ticking rates.
(5) No, they don’t use any STR or GTR equations, ie to pre-set the ticking rates, or to adjust the ticking rates, or to adjust the indicated times.
(6) They use equations that they know work, that have been proven to work.
(7) In any case they make regular adjustments during each day, no drastic action needed.
(8 ) The adjustments mentioned in (5)(6)(7) are not necessary, but the GPS system works more easily if the clocks tick as closely as possible, rather than the operators having to juggle huge numbers.
(9) GPS falsifies STR, & to some extent falsifies GTR. Koz STR says that time dilation is reciprocal, but GPS shows that it aint reciprocal, STR is a dead-duck.
(10) Einsteinists try to wave away the GPS falsification of STR by inventing & invoking an orbital Sagnac effect. They always seem to be able to invent something to get around any kind of failure, & it duznt matter that it makes no real sense, as long as it satisfies disciples, & anyone who believes in STR is easily satisfied.
(11) There is no excuse for not knowing most of the above, anyone can google the views of GPS experts.
 

Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #96 on: April 05, 2022, 10:39:41 am »
CRT duznt need relativity koz the designers don’t need relativity.
I've shown you how it gets used. You can stick your fingers in your ears and go 'lalalala no it doesn't.' And Steinmetz laughs at you.
Quote
Anyhow, i am still waiting for u to explain to me how STR can help B' to make an mmf (ie having already used STR to make an mmf from B). No hurry.
Your entire understanding of the phenomena is shoddy 'krapp' so you wouldn't even understand any such answer (if the foundation of your question wasn't even on already super faulty premises). You can't even read the equations.

Let's not forget how little you admit to knowing,
Quote
I don’t know what STR predicts re fast moving electrons.
Translation:
"Herp dee derp, I don't even know the first thing about relativity."

And you want to get all worked up about relativistic transformations of the E-field in current carrying wires - and you don't even know what a high school AP physics student knows about electrons and special relativity.

This material is too advanced for you. Go back to secondary school.  :scared:
Voigt was the first to derive an equation for gamma. But i think it was Searle that was the first to derive a transformation for em radiation. Not for wires, but for em radiation, in connection with length contraction. I think that Lorentz built on that. I think that Larmor used his own transforms to derive equations for gamma for the ticking of atoms. But he didn’t call this time dilation, he wasn’t that stupid. Neither was Lorentz.
But along came Albert, & he was stupid, & he foisted time dilation on the world, & the rest is history.
Anyhow, length contraction is often quite rightly called FitzGerald length contraction.
And ticking dilation is often quite rightly called Larmor ticking dilation. However, this can only apply to atomic clocks, it seems to be fairly accurate re atomic clocks, but its main problem being that it duznt readily explain the change in ticking with elevation. But in any case the Larmor gamma can't be applied to any other kind of clock.

Einstein's STR is based on relative velocity, or in the case of his time dilation it is based on relative speed.
All of the other kinds of relativity are based on the speed of the object through a static aether.
The neoLorentz version is based on the aetherwind blowing through the object or clock.

My own version of relativity is i think the best. The length contraction part is based on neoLorentz. The ticking dilation part is based on a combination of the length contraction due to the aetherwind plus a GTR kind of contribution to the length contraction due to the nearness of mass. All ticking dilation being due to length contraction. With each kind of clock being affected in a different way (eg balance wheel clocks, pendulums etc). I have made an Excel for the ticking dilation of tuning forks.

Bearing in mind that length contraction has never been proven. What i mean is that there is definitely a change in length or in width or some combination, but we don’t know which. I think that Lorentz mentioned this.

The funny thing is that in the modern era the only tests of time dilation have been by using atomic clocks, which were only invented after Einstein died. Einstein loved balance wheel clocks, but (i know that) his time dilation gamma can't possibly apply to balance wheel clocks (but might be ok for atomic clocks)(we don’t know yet).
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #97 on: April 05, 2022, 11:20:02 am »
(1) GPS duznt use any STR or GTR corrections.
(2) The ticking of the clocks are certainly affected by speed & elevation & location, in relativistic ways.
(3) There is no difference of the passing of time, koz time duznt exist, there is no such thing as time dilation.
(4) Yes, there is a need to make allowances for the differences in ticking rates.
(5) No, they don’t use any STR or GTR equations, ie to pre-set the ticking rates, or to adjust the ticking rates, or to adjust the indicated times.
(6) They use equations that they know work, that have been proven to work.
(7) In any case they make regular adjustments during each day, no drastic action needed.
(8 ) The adjustments mentioned in (5)(6)(7) are not necessary, but the GPS system works more easily if the clocks tick as closely as possible, rather than the operators having to juggle huge numbers.
(9) GPS falsifies STR, & to some extent falsifies GTR. Koz STR says that time dilation is reciprocal, but GPS shows that it aint reciprocal, STR is a dead-duck.
(10) Einsteinists try to wave away the GPS falsification of STR by inventing & invoking an orbital Sagnac effect. They always seem to be able to invent something to get around any kind of failure, & it duznt matter that it makes no real sense, as long as it satisfies disciples, & anyone who believes in STR is easily satisfied.
(11) There is no excuse for not knowing most of the above, anyone can google the views of GPS experts.

Sounds like a toned down version of Time cube.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160112193916/http://timecube.com/
 
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Offline penfold

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #98 on: April 05, 2022, 12:06:25 pm »
[...]
But the reference to the effect of the gap on the speed of electrons must be a typing error. U must have meant electons. It is old (electron) electricity that can't explain (how insulation affects the old (electron) electricity speed)(or how a small gap might affect).
But in any case we can't say can't based merely on a gedanken, we would need real numbers/speeds.

So all electronic devices designed, manufactured, and tested according to old-electrons that show no discrepancies to classical theory isn't enough to go by? It all works according to the classical theory, it's all explained in a cohesive set of equations that agree even with broader observations of the universe.
Electons don't exist in classical theory, so it would be surprising if I felt a need to reference them, but yeah, could easily be a typing error or a sign of mental deficiency, it's difficult to be sure. But we sure do need some real numbers and speeds, when can we expect some quantitative predictions regarding electricity and magnetism to test your theory?
 
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Offline aetheristTopic starter

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Re: Veritasium -- How Special Relativity Makes Magnets Work.
« Reply #99 on: April 05, 2022, 09:35:37 pm »
[...]But the reference to the effect of the gap on the speed of electrons must be a typing error. U must have meant elektons. It is old (electron) electricity that can't explain (how insulation affects the old (electron) electricity speed)(or how a small gap might affect).
But in any case we can't say can't based merely on a gedanken, we would need real numbers/speeds.
So all electronic devices designed, manufactured, and tested according to old-electrons that show no discrepancies to classical theory isn't enough to go by? It all works according to the classical theory, it's all explained in a cohesive set of equations that agree even with broader observations of the universe.
Elektons don't exist in classical theory, so it would be surprising if I felt a need to reference them, but yeah, could easily be a typing error or a sign of mental deficiency, it's difficult to be sure. But we sure do need some real numbers and speeds, when can we expect some quantitative predictions regarding electricity and magnetism to test your theory?
Elektons were discovered/invented in Dec 2021 to better explain what we see re electricity, ie better than the drifting electrons nonsense.
If u can show me one instance where elekton elekticity duznt work, or works less well than drifting electrons electricity, then u win.

The best test that i can think of (of my new (elekton) elekticity) is a measurement of the speed of elekticity along a threaded rod compared to a plain rod. The speed of elekticity along the threaded rod will be slower in the ratio of the extra distance up&down over the threads.

But i like your idea that we should abandon all electric devices designed before my new (elekton) elekticity was discovered in Dec 2021.
They should have abandoned devices designed before STR in 1905. Bad luck for Steinmetz.
They should have abandoned devices designed before the electron was found in 1897.
They should have abandoned devices designed before the electron was named in 1891.
They should have abandoned devices designed before the charged particle was hypothesised in 1838.
They should have abandoned all devices designed by Tesla, koz before 1905 he hadnt heard of STR, & after 1905 he didn’t believe in STR.
Wow, this is going to be a big job. I wonder whether i should have kept quiet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron
…………….. Interactions involving electrons with other subatomic particles are of interest in fields such as chemistry and nuclear physics. The Coulomb force interaction between the positive protons within atomic nuclei and the negative electrons without, allows the composition of the two known as atoms. Ionization or differences in the proportions of negative electrons versus positive nuclei changes the binding energy of an atomic system. The exchange or sharing of the electrons between two or more atoms is the main cause of chemical bonding.[13] In 1838, British natural philosopher Richard Laming first hypothesized the concept of an indivisible quantity of electric charge to explain the chemical properties of atoms.[3] Irish physicist George Johnstone Stoney named this charge 'electron' in 1891, and J. J. Thomson and his team of British physicists identified it as a particle in 1897 during the cathode-ray tube experiment.[5] Electrons can also participate in nuclear reactions, such as nucleosynthesis in stars, where they are known as beta particles. Electrons can be created through beta decay of radioactive isotopes and in high-energy collisions, for instance when cosmic rays enter the atmosphere. The antiparticle of the electron is called the positron; it is identical to the electron except that it carries electrical charge of the opposite sign. When an electron collides with a positron, both particles can be annihilated, producing gamma ray photons…………..

When Einsteinists finally agree whether relativistic mass exists (ie that mass increases with velocity), & when they finally agree whether the concepts of longitudinal mass & transverse mass exist (for a beam of electrons in a CRT), then which Cathode Ray devices should we dump at the dump. Could we sue the manufacturers of TVs?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 06:25:18 am by aetherist »
 


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