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Video on planned obsolescence.

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tooki:

--- Quote from: Buriedcode on April 11, 2021, 04:07:27 am ---For example: one could assume that generally, with products that have several "teirs" of quality based on price point, the higher the price - the better the "quality" and therefore, presumably the greater the chance of that lasting longer.  But with certain products that are considered high-end (for example, Apple macbooks), they are marketed towards those who have a higher disposable income and are more likely to "upgrade" or obtain the latest gadget, meaning the lifetime of their product - for that particular demographic - can be rather short.    One could easily argue this is planned obsolescence, and perhaps it is, but is it a conspiracy?

--- End quote ---
I think Apple is a spectacularly bad example of the point you’re trying to make. Statistically, Macs are replaced less frequently than PCs, and it’s not as though they’re even that much more expensive than competitor products of similar performance, size, weight, and fit and finish.

A much better example of “expensive but not durable because rich people can afford to replace it more often” is clothing, where there are expensive fabrics that are extremely fragile.

However, even that isn’t planned obsolescence, it’s what I’d call “tolerable fragility”, since it’s fragility tolerated in exchange for some other characteristic, like how a super thin fabric looks, pure exclusivity, etc.

Planned obsolescence means deliberately designing things to last less long than they inherently could. Designing fabrics that are delicate because there’s no way to make them durable (while maintaining other desired characteristics) doesn’t count. Making a laptop without user-replaceable batteries in exchange for extreme thinness doesn’t count.

In other words, design tradeoffs aren’t planned obsolescence.

The other thing people routinely misattribute to planned obsolescence is, well, plain old obsolescence. A computer getting bogged down with new software isn’t planned obsolescence, it’s plain old obsolescence.

SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: tooki on April 11, 2021, 06:07:09 pm ---[...]
Planned obsolescence means deliberately designing things to last less long than they inherently could.

--- End quote ---

There is something called antitrust or competition laws, where lawmakers have found it necessary to outlaw collusion between "competitors" that silently agree to not compete too hard (for example, by agreeing not to make their products "too good for the price" or, in other words, "too cheap").  Almost like a capitalist version of a trade union!  There are simply some situations that the "free market" can't fix.



--- Quote from: tooki on April 11, 2021, 06:07:09 pm ---[...] Making a laptop without user-replaceable batteries in exchange for extreme thinness doesn’t count.  [...]

--- End quote ---

I think it should count as planned obsolescence if the manufacturer doesn't offer a thicker alternative - and I think it edges into collusion and anti-competitive behaviour when no manufacturers offer it for love or money, all of a sudden, all at the same time...



--- Quote from: tooki on April 11, 2021, 06:07:09 pm ---The other thing people routinely misattribute to planned obsolescence is, well, plain old obsolescence. A computer getting bogged down with new software isn’t planned obsolescence, it’s plain old obsolescence.

--- End quote ---

It isn't as cut and dried as that...   it can certainly be planned obsolescence.  The physical equivalent is making a phone with a charge plug that doesn't fit the previous version for no particular reason other than increasing the sales of chargers (which has been made illegal in the EU, I believe).  It is so easy to do the same kind of thing with software - make sure it doesn't run on the old model (and make sure the old stuff doesn't run on the new one) and you'll be good.

Finally,  an examples of some scenarios that definitely don't qualify as planned obsolescence:   you open up a really big graphics project in Photoshop on an older computer, and find it is barely able to cope with the image given its limited resources in terms of memory, CPU, bus, and disk speeds.   Here, I would say that either your PC is obsolete, or, your PC is too slow, but faster/better ones were and are available, but you didn't want to pay for the performance to do what you want to do - so get out and get another one, either way, and don't blame the manufacturer for the scope of your projects growing in size!

james_s:

--- Quote from: tooki on April 11, 2021, 06:07:09 pm ---The other thing people routinely misattribute to planned obsolescence is, well, plain old obsolescence. A computer getting bogged down with new software isn’t planned obsolescence, it’s plain old obsolescence.

--- End quote ---

That one is a gray area. My first iPhone (yeah, I know, more Apple, but whatever, it's the phone I had) became unusably slow after various updates to the OS and apps. It didn't DO anything new as far as I could tell, not one of those updates gave me tangible improvements, they were just slower. It has been my experience that they push the OS updates about one version further on old devices than they should and it results in them being very sluggish at that point. Personally I want to buy a phone, set it up with everything I want and then essentially freeze the configuration and use it like that forever. There is so much software (and websites) that are not any more useful than similar stuff 10+ years ago, they're just more bloated and slow. Some of this is "hardware is so powerful now that who cares, we don't need to optimize!" but my cynical side suspects that companies keep adding features of dubious value fully knowing it will make devices slower so people will upgrade to the latest model. PCs became a mature commodity around 10 years ago and the need to upgrade regularly dropped sharply, people interpreted that as the death of the PC but it was really just that nobody needed a new one every year or two anymore. Smartphones and tablets were selling like hotcakes at the time but now those are mature commodities, there is not much the latest model can do that a flagship from 3-4 years ago can't and that period is gradually extending.

SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: james_s on April 12, 2021, 02:17:23 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on April 11, 2021, 06:07:09 pm ---The other thing people routinely misattribute to planned obsolescence is, well, plain old obsolescence. A computer getting bogged down with new software isn’t planned obsolescence, it’s plain old obsolescence.

--- End quote ---

That one is a gray area. My first iPhone (yeah, I know, more Apple, but whatever, it's the phone I had) became unusably slow after various updates to the OS and apps. It didn't DO anything new as far as I could tell, not one of those updates gave me tangible improvements, they were just slower. It has been my experience that they push the OS updates about one version further on old devices than they should and it results in them being very sluggish at that point. Personally I want to buy a phone, set it up with everything I want and then essentially freeze the configuration and use it like that forever. There is so much software (and websites) that are not any more useful than similar stuff 10+ years ago, they're just more bloated and slow. Some of this is "hardware is so powerful now that who cares, we don't need to optimize!" but my cynical side suspects that companies keep adding features of dubious value fully knowing it will make devices slower so people will upgrade to the latest model. PCs became a mature commodity around 10 years ago and the need to upgrade regularly dropped sharply, people interpreted that as the death of the PC but it was really just that nobody needed a new one every year or two anymore. Smartphones and tablets were selling like hotcakes at the time but now those are mature commodities, there is not much the latest model can do that a flagship from 3-4 years ago can't and that period is gradually extending.

--- End quote ---

Yeah, I've never forgiven Apple for killing my iPhone 4s with their software update.  If it wasn't planned obsolescence, it was incompetence... for letting users upgrade to something that won't work on the hardware.  At least by accusing them of planned obsolescence, we are not insulting their intelligence!

NiHaoMike:

--- Quote from: David Hess on April 09, 2021, 01:53:12 am ---I could make the same statement about electronically commutated motors which replaced shaded pole motors in refrigerator evaporators because of EPA requirements.  I have never had one of these shaded pole motors fail, but I have had to replace the electronically commutated motor in my new refrigerator 6 times now in 10 years, and they cost $30 each.

--- End quote ---
Just bodge in a computer type ball bearing fan? Maybe even try with a variable speed fan and see what speed yields the best overall efficiency.

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