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Video on planned obsolescence.

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james_s:

--- Quote from: tooki on April 12, 2021, 04:31:02 am ---Ah, the “but the new version didn’t add anything!” trope... here’s the thing: we forget as little things get added.

Do I remember which version of Word added a specific feature? Of course not. And unless I happen to be authoring a document that needs that specific feature, I’m unlikely to even notice it’s missing if using a version one or two versions back. But put me on a version that’s many versions back and suddenly I notice there’s a lot missing. I’ll notice that it’s dumber about various behaviors.

I notice the same thing if I go to do something on my old iPhone 4S: there is tons of stuff missing.

--- End quote ---

But I DO go back to older devices and software pretty frequently and I rarely notice anything missing, except apps I don't have because I didn't install it back when the current version was supported on that OS. Word? I have Word 2003 on my personal laptop and Office 365 on my work laptop and I've never noticed anything missing, except for the ribbon which is something that I would LOVE to get rid of on the newer versions, after years of using it at work I STILL hate the ribbon. Sometimes stuff does get fixed, like when I finally updated to iOS14 it fixed the reminders FINALLY which had been hopelessly broken for several versions but the thing is, reminders worked flawlessly way back in iOS6. Unfortunately it also killed my battery life, I used to easily get through an entire day on iOS10, now it's rare that I don't have to plug it in sometime in the afternoon. And then in the opposite direction, I find things missing on the newer devices because there are so many apps that get abandoned and never updated to run on the later OS and in several cases I've never found a decent replacement.

End result is kind of a wash, sometimes I can run an app that I couldn't run before, though that same app would have probably been just fine if written for the older platform. What usually overshadows that is the apps that used to work just fine which now no longer work. The perception is that iOS upgrades take away functionality, make my device slower and reduce the battery life, while adding very little and most of what it does add is just the ability to run apps that arbitrarily require a newer OS version. It would bother me a lot less if it was possible to roll back, I've been burned multiple times by updates that broke functionality with no way to roll back. That has trained me to go out of my way to avoid updating anything.

james_s:

--- Quote from: tooki on April 12, 2021, 04:45:49 am ---Again, your argument boils down to “I don’t need it, therefore it’s not actually important”, literally brushing it off as vanity. That common argument that people just buy Apple as a “fashion statement” is IMHO rather callously dismissive of people like me who definitely, categorically do not buy things as fashion statements. I buy them because it’s the better tool for me. And it’s a tool. And since it’s a tool I use a lot, I need it to be the best tool for me.


Now, as someone whose spine issues also cause hand problems which make typing painful, I’m sensitive to keyboards, and in this regard, I’ve been annoyed with Apple for quite some time. I would indeed rather have the machine 2mm thicker in order to accommodate a better keyboard. At least they’re phasing out that butterfly keyboard.

--- End quote ---

Again I'll say there is a lot of middle ground between a 10 lb 1.5" thick battleship and a 3/8" (or whatever) thick MBP. Apple has their "Air" models which are sleek and thin, that cater to the crowd that want extreme thinness and portability ad the expense of battery life, cooling, upgradeability, ports, keyboard quality and other sacrifices. The MBP is thinner than it needs to be and sacrifices far too much to achieve that, and I say that as a daily user of one for several years now. If thin was the most important metric I would get one of the Air models, but to call a machine "Pro" while giving it a terrible keyboard, pathetic battery life, ridiculously limited complement of ports, zero upgradeability, cooling that causes it to throttle regularly is kind of ridiculous. I'm not saying they shouldn't make thin lightweight machines but come on, offer at least one model worthy of being called "Pro". Something with enough battery life to get through a full work day or an overseas flight, something with a really good keyboard is suitable for typing big documents or writing code, that isn't too loud to type on while in a remote meeting. Something with sufficient cooling to compile or render something without throttling back.

Obviously not everybody buys Apple products as a fashion statement. I've had iPhones since the 4, before that I had an iPod Nano (1st gen), I bought these devices because after evaluating my choices I decided they offered the best functionality for my needs. I'm not going to pretend though that Apple does not primarily market fashion accessories, and they market those toward wealthy people with money to blow on status symbols. That doesn't mean the products aren't good although most are IMO tuned heavily in that in that direction, and that doesn't mean everyone buys them for those reasons, but that is their target market, there is really no disputing that. Now it seems like everyone else has jumped on that bandwagon, trying to copy Apple and chase after that same high profit market.

tooki:

--- Quote from: james_s on April 12, 2021, 04:53:49 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on April 12, 2021, 04:31:02 am ---Ah, the “but the new version didn’t add anything!” trope... here’s the thing: we forget as little things get added.

Do I remember which version of Word added a specific feature? Of course not. And unless I happen to be authoring a document that needs that specific feature, I’m unlikely to even notice it’s missing if using a version one or two versions back. But put me on a version that’s many versions back and suddenly I notice there’s a lot missing. I’ll notice that it’s dumber about various behaviors.

I notice the same thing if I go to do something on my old iPhone 4S: there is tons of stuff missing.

--- End quote ---

But I DO go back to older devices and software pretty frequently and I rarely notice anything missing, except apps I don't have because I didn't install it back when the current version was supported on that OS. Word? I have Word 2003 on my personal laptop and Office 365 on my work laptop and I've never noticed anything missing, except for the ribbon which is something that I would LOVE to get rid of on the newer versions, after years of using it at work I STILL hate the ribbon. Sometimes stuff does get fixed, like when I finally updated to iOS14 it fixed the reminders FINALLY which had been hopelessly broken for several versions but the thing is, reminders worked flawlessly way back in iOS6. Unfortunately it also killed my battery life, I used to easily get through an entire day on iOS10, now it's rare that I don't have to plug it in sometime in the afternoon. And then in the opposite direction, I find things missing on the newer devices because there are so many apps that get abandoned and never updated to run on the later OS and in several cases I've never found a decent replacement.

End result is kind of a wash, sometimes I can run an app that I couldn't run before, though that same app would have probably been just fine if written for the older platform. What usually overshadows that is the apps that used to work just fine which now no longer work. The perception is that iOS upgrades take away functionality, make my device slower and reduce the battery life, while adding very little and most of what it does add is just the ability to run apps that arbitrarily require a newer OS version. It would bother me a lot less if it was possible to roll back, I've been burned multiple times by updates that broke functionality with no way to roll back. That has trained me to go out of my way to avoid updating anything.

--- End quote ---
Well, just because you don’t notice things missing in Word 2003 doesn’t mean I don’t! ;)

Yeah, I’ve been occasionally frustrated by abandoned apps. (In fact, I’m still trying to figure out my migration strategy from Aperture, even though it was officially discontinued in 2015, but was moribund from 2012, when it stopped getting anything but bug fixes.)

As for battery life: in my experience (as an iPhone user since 2007), iOS updates are mostly a red herring regarding battery life: yes, an iOS update that uses more CPU will use more power, but the bigger issue is that that minor increase in load comes at precisely the time the battery is starting to show its age. Especially in the non-plus-size iPhones, where the battery is being pushed to its absolute limits on a daily basis, it’s right around the year mark that the battery has hit its cycle count. And it’s right at the 1 year mark that the new iOS comes out. And to boot, it’s at the end of the year, where it’s cold in many places, which can severely reduce battery performance. (On my 6S with a worn out battery, the battery would plummet from 30% to zero shut down within 5 minutes of taking it out of my pocket and using it outdoors at around 0C ambient.) So add the slight increase in load and the cold, and suddenly the battery performs a lot worse. (I ever so much wish Apple would release an extended-battery compact iPhone version. I don’t need the extreme thinness, and indeed find a naked modern iPhone a bit too thin to grasp comfortably, so a phone with the footprint, thickness, and rounded profile of the original iPhone, with all that space going to triple the battery capacity, would be my choice.)

Now that they’ve added that feature in iOS that mostly keeps the battery charged at 80% until right before you begin your day, I’m curious to see how battery health is at the 1 year mark, which will be the end of June for my SE. iOS reports it as having 90% battery health, which is similar to my 6 and 6S at a year old, but we shall see how it actually behaves.

tooki:

--- Quote from: james_s on April 12, 2021, 05:10:45 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on April 12, 2021, 04:45:49 am ---Again, your argument boils down to “I don’t need it, therefore it’s not actually important”, literally brushing it off as vanity. That common argument that people just buy Apple as a “fashion statement” is IMHO rather callously dismissive of people like me who definitely, categorically do not buy things as fashion statements. I buy them because it’s the better tool for me. And it’s a tool. And since it’s a tool I use a lot, I need it to be the best tool for me.


Now, as someone whose spine issues also cause hand problems which make typing painful, I’m sensitive to keyboards, and in this regard, I’ve been annoyed with Apple for quite some time. I would indeed rather have the machine 2mm thicker in order to accommodate a better keyboard. At least they’re phasing out that butterfly keyboard.

--- End quote ---

Again I'll say there is a lot of middle ground between a 10 lb 1.5" thick battleship and a 3/8" (or whatever) thick MBP. Apple has their "Air" models which are sleek and thin, that cater to the crowd that want extreme thinness and portability ad the expense of battery life, cooling, upgradeability, ports, keyboard quality and other sacrifices. The MBP is thinner than it needs to be and sacrifices far too much to achieve that, and I say that as a daily user of one for several years now. If thin was the most important metric I would get one of the Air models, but to call a machine "Pro" while giving it a terrible keyboard, pathetic battery life, ridiculously limited complement of ports, zero upgradeability, cooling that causes it to throttle regularly is kind of ridiculous. I'm not saying they shouldn't make thin lightweight machines but come on, offer at least one model worthy of being called "Pro". Something with enough battery life to get through a full work day or an overseas flight, something with a really good keyboard is suitable for typing big documents or writing code, that isn't too loud to type on while in a remote meeting. Something with sufficient cooling to compile or render something without throttling back.

--- End quote ---
Well, by all accounts, the M1 MacBook Pro delivers the performance, battery life and coolness. (Not cooling but coolness, in that it has one fan which apparently can’t even be heard, without throttling, under maximum load.) I guess since the CPU isn’t burning off tons of energy as heat...

The M1 MacBook Air has no fan at all, and apparently will throttle eventually, but does not get hot.

Zero999:

--- Quote from: james_s on April 12, 2021, 04:53:49 am ---But I DO go back to older devices and software pretty frequently and I rarely notice anything missing, except apps I don't have because I didn't install it back when the current version was supported on that OS. Word? I have Word 2003 on my personal laptop and Office 365 on my work laptop and I've never noticed anything missing, except for the ribbon which is something that I would LOVE to get rid of on the newer versions, after years of using it at work I STILL hate the ribbon.
--- End quote ---

Heck, I could probably go back to MS Office 97 and wouldn't miss any features. I also hate ribbon. It always takes more clicks to perform the same operation. I wish MS would stop butchering the user interface of their applications. They seem to do it to make it appear like they're adding new things to more recent versions, when in reality very little has changed. I find AbiWord and LibraOffice much easier to use. I've even done work at home, in my own time, because my work's PC only has M$ Turd on it, which is too much hassle to use for anything, but simple documents. This was before working from home came in, of course.

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