Author Topic: Safety Requirements around the World  (Read 12918 times)

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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2016, 09:35:57 am »
A problem with blanket safety rules is it loses differentiation between different levels of hazard.
When I was working at a large site a while ago, you were not allowed to use stairs while using a phone, or carrying a cup of coffee.
It's basically about ass-covering, and seems to get worse as the scale of the site increases, as the budget can stand the loss of productivity caused by excessive and unnecessary safety rules.
Until they suddenly realise they're not going to finish on time, when everything goes out the window. A few years ago on a huge retail developement in London, a week or so before it absolutely had to open, safety rules started to be overridden by pressure to complete. Somebody died - they were standing on the top edge of a cherry picker basket and their foot jammed the "up" lever.
 
 
 
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Offline zl2wrw

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2016, 11:45:19 am »
I agree, it would be useful to have a booklet or other pamphlet on electrical safety for hobbyists. [SNIP]

The New Zealand gov publishes the following documents regarding owner servicing of appliances and building wiring:
https://www.energysafety.govt.nz/documents/legislation-policy/electricity-act-regulations-codes/standards-and-codes-of-practice/NZECP%2050%202004%20New%20Zealand%20Electrical%20Code%20of%20Practice%20for%20Repair%20and%20Maintenance%20of%20Domestic%20Electrical%20Appliances%20by%20the%20Owner%20of%20the%20Appliance%20%20-%20Published%2027%20July%202004%20.pdf
(yeah, it's really basic, and doesn't cover "electronic" appliances like switchmode power supplies)

https://www.energysafety.govt.nz/documents/legislation-policy/electricity-act-regulations-codes/standards-and-codes-of-practice/NZECP%2051%202004%20New%20Zealand%20Electrical%20Code%20of%20Practice%20for%20Homeowner%20Occupiers%20Electrical%20Wiring%20Work%20in%20Domestic%20Installations%20%20-%20Published%2027%20July%202004%20.pdf

The electricity in homes here is 230V L-N, 50 Hz AC, neutral bonded to earth (TN system), some homes have two phase (460V L-L 180 degrees apart or 400V L-L 120 degrees apart) or three phase (400V L-L). Your country may be different...
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2016, 06:05:20 pm »
I agree, it would be useful to have a booklet or other pamphlet on electrical safety for hobbyists. [SNIP]

The New Zealand gov publishes the following documents regarding owner servicing of appliances and building wiring:
https://www.energysafety.govt.nz/documents/legislation-policy/electricity-act-regulations-codes/standards-and-codes-of-practice/NZECP%2050%202004%20New%20Zealand%20Electrical%20Code%20of%20Practice%20for%20Repair%20and%20Maintenance%20of%20Domestic%20Electrical%20Appliances%20by%20the%20Owner%20of%20the%20Appliance%20%20-%20Published%2027%20July%202004%20.pdf
(yeah, it's really basic, and doesn't cover "electronic" appliances like switchmode power supplies)

https://www.energysafety.govt.nz/documents/legislation-policy/electricity-act-regulations-codes/standards-and-codes-of-practice/NZECP%2051%202004%20New%20Zealand%20Electrical%20Code%20of%20Practice%20for%20Homeowner%20Occupiers%20Electrical%20Wiring%20Work%20in%20Domestic%20Installations%20%20-%20Published%2027%20July%202004%20.pdf

The electricity in homes here is 230V L-N, 50 Hz AC, neutral bonded to earth (TN system), some homes have two phase (460V L-L 180 degrees apart or 400V L-L 120 degrees apart) or three phase (400V L-L). Your country may be different...

Interesting.  The documents are better than any US equivalents I found, but in common with the old US Mil Standards contains a lengthy combination of boiler plate, legal requirements and useful information.  In general these documents are strong on what, but weak on why.  Makes it harder to generalize safety practices to a new situation not covered in the document.

Some of the takeaways I got from these documents are:

It is illegal to use 110V apparatus in your country.  Even with a step down transformer.  OK.

It is illegal for non licensed people to do work on ANY electronic device (television, radio, stereo and computer are explicitly referenced).  Must really limit hobby work in your country.

You can't sell (or presumably give away) anything you worked on.  Ever.  The dumps must be full of perfectly good stuff that was owner repaired.


All in all you should be safer if you follow these documents/regulations.  I don't know if you are better off.  Seems a little heavy handed to forbid you to work on your own stereo.  I suspect this rule may get ignored from time to time.

Here in the US there are few if any rules on re-sale of homeowner work.  In most places you are required to notify the buyer of any defects when you sell a house, but just doing your own work in most places is not considered a defect. 
 

Offline Alexei.Polkhanov

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2016, 06:47:40 pm »
Safety ... is a good thing, but with respect to electricity, electrical shock and other related dangers - did you notice that statistics are telling completely different story !? In entire U.S.A. (I selected USA here because they have better quality stats) there were only like  260 deaths by electrocution and  ~60 of those at home in 2010. For 400M population that is negligible number and that includes people who decided to blow up "demons in lava lamp" by cooking them inside microwave, usually under influence.

Every year in the U.S., more than 2,600 people are killed in home fires.
32,675 people killed in car accidents. (2014)
...

I am always surprised how INSANELY EXTREMELY DIS PROPORTIONALLY popular this subject  is on THIS FORUM. Maybe it is just me who have objectivity in my hierarchy of needs?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 09:27:04 pm by Alexei.Polkhanov »
 

Offline rrinker

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2016, 07:06:17 pm »
 Yes, statistically it's barely a blip on the radar, but there is a whole culture in this country that says one death is one too many, even if it was caused by sheer stupidity, and as such we NEED MORE LAWS. Things low on the "leading causes of death" list often get very disproportionate levels of attention. Some people just don't get that is you reduce the death rate of something that kills 20,000 people annually by 10%, you've saved a lot more lives than if you reduce the rate of death by 10% for something that kills 100 people annually. And of course, anyone pointing such things out either "doesn't care" about <some demographic> or else is simply a racist.
 Yes, there are plenty of things messed up around here. It's partly why our choice for President has come down to a lying, cheating, politics as usual woman who thinks everyone should vote for her just because she's a woman, and a blowhard nutcase who isn't afraid to speak his mind but is completely unsuited for the office.

 Flying Spaghetti Monster help us all!
 

Offline HackedFridgeMagnet

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2016, 10:35:39 pm »

The electricity in homes here is 230V L-N, 50 Hz AC, neutral bonded to earth (TN system), some homes have two phase (460V L-L 180 degrees apart or 400V L-L 120 degrees apart) or three phase (400V L-L). Your country may be different...
Not quite.

In Australia, New Zealand, India and Israel the TN-C-S system is in use; however, the wiring rules currently state that, in addition, each customer must provide a separate connection to earth via both a water pipe bond (if metallic water pipes enter the consumer's premises) and a dedicated earth electrode. In Australia and New Zealand this is called the Multiple Earthed Neutral Link or MEN Link. This MEN Link is removable for installation testing purposes, but is connected during use by either a locking system (locknuts for instance) or two or more screws. In the MEN system, the integrity of the Neutral is paramount. ... The protective earth and neutral conductors are combined until the consumer's neutral link (located on the customer's side of the electricity meter's neutral connection) - beyond this point, the protective earth and neutral conductors are separate.

from Wikipedia but I'm sure its right.

 

Offline bitslice

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2016, 11:11:05 pm »
There is a line between Corporate ass covering and best practice.

Like the correct way to lift a box is obvious to most people who have ever had to lift one, but new generations either lack the experience or are (controversially) as dumb as a bag of rocks.

I'm really interested in an experts take on best practice, but I'm not interested in a Jobsworth's consumption of precious oxygen.


I haven't held a hand rail in 45 years, and will continue to not do so until the entire world starts washing its hands after wiping its arse.
 

Offline zl2wrw

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2016, 06:09:35 am »
[SNIP]
In Australia, New Zealand, India and Israel the TN-C-S system is in use; however, the wiring rules currently state that, in addition, each customer must provide a separate connection to earth via both a water pipe bond (if metallic water pipes enter the consumer's premises) and a dedicated earth electrode. In Australia and New Zealand this is called the Multiple Earthed Neutral Link or MEN Link.[SNIP]

Yes, though from the perspective of appliances, all TN systems look very similar (fixed wiring is a very different story however).


[SNIP]
Interesting.  The documents are better than any US equivalents I found, but in common with the old US Mil Standards contains a lengthy combination of boiler plate, legal requirements and useful information.  In general these documents are strong on what, but weak on why.  Makes it harder to generalize safety practices to a new situation not covered in the document.
[SNIP]
It is illegal to use 110V apparatus in your country.  Even with a step down transformer.  OK.
It is illegal for non licensed people to do work on ANY electronic device (television, radio, stereo and computer are explicitly referenced).  Must really limit hobby work in your country.
You can't sell (or presumably give away) anything you worked on.  Ever.  The dumps must be full of perfectly good stuff that was owner repaired.
[SNIP] 

Yep, lawyers shall inherit the earth.

As far as the law here is concerned, what actually matters is the Act, Regulations and Standards cited eg:
http://www.legislation.co.nz/act/public/1992/0122/latest/DLM282873.html
http://www.legislation.co.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/latest/DLM2763716.html

Very few people here repair stuff anymore - most of the old TV repair businesses have shut up shop, and lots of outdated but still functional stuff gets sent to the dump...
 

Offline aargee

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2016, 12:01:53 pm »
We need a restricted electrical certificate here to work on high voltage (I think in theory, above 50VAC). Note that there is no distinction made for 'in the privacy of your home' work. These penalties also apply to any work carried out on mains connected appliances.

I just recently received this "information bulletin" via email...

"Unsafe electrical work will not go unpunished:
Recent prosecutions in Queensland’s Industrial Magistrates Court serve as a powerful reminder to those putting lives at risk by not working within the law.

In one case, a laundry business was fined $5000 after a worker was burned when he contacted the live wires of a rigged up series test lamp. The business owner had wired the lamp to the 240 volt AC terminals of a washing machine drain solenoid to see why the machine was not draining properly. Despite being instructed not to reconnect the device, the owner later did so, once again exposing employees to electrical risk.

In another instance, an individual was fined $7500 for performing electrical work without a licence. He completed several electrical tasks for a friend of a friend for $300, but the homeowner became suspicious and reported his work to the Electrical Safety Office. Under investigation, he admitted he performed the work without a licence, despite two previously issued infringement notices for unlicensed electrical work.

In a third case, a company was fined $125,000 after a worker was fatally electrocuted. Two workers were removing and installing advertising skins (billboard advertising) from an elevated platform. One of the workers was electrocuted when the 6.5 metre uninsulated metal pole he was using contacted live powerlines. The business owner had a safety system in place at the time, however had failed to properly record the proximity of powerlines or establish exclusion zones.

People can request that the Electrical Safety Office commences a prosecution if they believe a category 1 or 2 offence of electrical safety laws has occurred, and a prosecution hasn’t commenced between 6 and 12 months of the offence occurring.

Category 1 offences are the most serious breaches where a duty holder recklessly endangers a person’s safety, risking serious injury or death. Maximum penalties for companies are up to $3 million; for individuals as PCBUs or officers up to $600,000 / five years in jail; and workers up to $300,000 / five years in jail.

Category 2 offences are where a person fails to comply with an electrical safety duty that exposes someone to a risk of death or serious injury. Maximum penalties for companies are up to $1.5 million; for individuals as PCBUs or officers up to $300,000; and workers up to $150,000.

On the spot fines, called infringement notices, may also be issued for electrical safety offences such as performing unlicensed electrical work, failing to test electrical work or failing to ensure electrical equipment is de-energised before carrying out electrical work.

Electrical Safety Office
1300 362 128
electricalsafety.qld.gov.au"
Not easy, not hard, just need to be incentivised.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2016, 11:21:37 pm »
On the spot fines, called infringement notices, may also be issued for electrical safety offences such as performing unlicensed electrical work, failing to test electrical work or failing to ensure electrical equipment is de-energised before carrying out electrical work.
There is the golden nugget, if they don't differentiate between electrical and electronic work then they need to at least differentiate on something like the measurement categories:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_category
Trying to work on electronic equipment when you can't have it energised under threat of a fine is bonkers.
 

Offline zl2wrw

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2016, 06:15:40 am »
[SNIP]
"Unsafe electrical work will not go unpunished:
Recent prosecutions in Queensland’s Industrial Magistrates Court serve as a powerful reminder to those putting lives at risk by not working within the law.
[SNIP]

Have they ever prosecuted an unlicensed person for repairing (or manufacturing) their own appliances, in a safe manner, which are only for personal (and not business) use?

So, is it "aiding and abetting the commission of a criminal offence" to sell mains powered kits to people in Queensland?
Is it illegal for someone in Queensland to build one for their own personal use?
eg
https://www.jaycar.com.au/pir-controlled-mains-power-switch/p/KC5455
to be fair, I'll make an example of a competitor's kit too:
http://www.altronics.com.au/p/k5165-ultra-low-distortion-mk.3-135w-stereo-amplifier-kit/
 

Offline aargee

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2016, 11:54:55 am »
[SNIP]
"Unsafe electrical work will not go unpunished:
Recent prosecutions in Queensland’s Industrial Magistrates Court serve as a powerful reminder to those putting lives at risk by not working within the law.
[SNIP]

Have they ever prosecuted an unlicensed person for repairing (or manufacturing) their own appliances, in a safe manner, which are only for personal (and not business) use?

So, is it "aiding and abetting the commission of a criminal offence" to sell mains powered kits to people in Queensland?
Is it illegal for someone in Queensland to build one for their own personal use?
eg
https://www.jaycar.com.au/pir-controlled-mains-power-switch/p/KC5455
to be fair, I'll make an example of a competitor's kit too:
http://www.altronics.com.au/p/k5165-ultra-low-distortion-mk.3-135w-stereo-amplifier-kit/

In theory, yes, if you build the kit without having a restricted electrical license. But the distance between theory and reality can be long, unless someone gets injured or the coroner gets involved.
Not easy, not hard, just need to be incentivised.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2016, 12:16:50 pm »
On the spot fines, called infringement notices, may also be issued for electrical safety offences such as performing unlicensed electrical work, failing to test electrical work or failing to ensure electrical equipment is de-energised before carrying out electrical work.
But Dave publishes videos of himself breaking this law regularly, and 10s of thousands of us watch him doing it. Can we expect a video of Dave being issued an "on the spot fine"?   :palm:
 
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Offline Someone

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2016, 11:20:27 pm »
On the spot fines, called infringement notices, may also be issued for electrical safety offences such as performing unlicensed electrical work, failing to test electrical work or failing to ensure electrical equipment is de-energised before carrying out electrical work.
But Dave publishes videos of himself breaking this law regularly, and 10s of thousands of us watch him doing it. Can we expect a video of Dave being issued an "on the spot fine"?   :palm:
Dave is in NSW, not QLD. You can see a breakdown of the different states rules here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/renewable-energy/wanting-to-get-into-solar-think-hot-water/msg978162/#msg978162
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2016, 11:23:09 pm »

I am always surprised how INSANELY EXTREMELY DIS PROPORTIONALLY popular this subject  is on THIS FORUM. Maybe it is just me who have objectivity in my hierarchy of needs?

No it's not just you. I notice anytime someone starts talking about a project that requires direct line connection their are a bunch of people who jump in and rant about safety and that they shouldn't do it. I'm all for safety but if you do electrical/electronics you will have to work with line voltages so exercise common sense. There are probably far more dangerous things you will be doing in your everyday life.

My latest project with a plug is held together with cardboard and sticky putty (the bottom is wood). Common sense says don't pull the carboard off and stick fingers inside. ;)
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
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Offline eugenenine

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2016, 11:42:12 am »
On the spot fines, called infringement notices, may also be issued for electrical safety offences such as performing unlicensed electrical work, failing to test electrical work or failing to ensure electrical equipment is de-energised before carrying out electrical work.
But Dave publishes videos of himself breaking this law regularly, and 10s of thousands of us watch him doing it. Can we expect a video of Dave being issued an "on the spot fine"?   :palm:
Dave is in NSW, not QLD. You can see a breakdown of the different states rules here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/renewable-energy/wanting-to-get-into-solar-think-hot-water/msg978162/#msg978162

If QLD was like NY (city) here they would be sending Dave fines for 'distributing instructions on law breaking activities"
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: Safety Requirements around the World
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2016, 12:26:32 pm »


While my video covered safety in this manor it was not really something that would apply 100% everywhere around the world and so I'd like to know what the equivalent safety standards and certifications are in other parts of the world.  What, for example, would the equivalent certificate be in England, in Australia, the EU (presumably all the EU has a single standard -- or does it?).


Brian
Here in Finland(part of EU) I think "työturvallisuuskurssi" is the equivalent to your "OSHA10"
1-day extremely boring course telling that you are not allowed to do anything

Besides that I have "hot works certificate-card", "electrical safety-card"  "first aid -card" and "cleanroom pass-card"
Solid 8 days of wasted time  |O
Most of them need to be renewed every 2-3 years.
Luckily I dont need yet! "roadworks safety card", "roof hotworks card" or some yet another safety card management course.


 


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